Probiotics

xlynx

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I have been making some improvments recently with Diflucan anti fungal. I am supposed to be taking a probiotic with it, the only prob is I seem to get really bad herx like symptoms, headache flu like and everything 50% worse.

Has any one had a reaction to probiotic such as alergic type or is it possible I am just herxing with probiotics?
 

willow

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Could be either, or that the probio contains something that for you is non-ideal.

Here's what I do with supplements.
-Reduce the dose as low as you need to in order that you don't get this effect. If that's 1/8th cap, probably fine. (If no dose is ok forget it.)
-Stay on this does for 4-7days.
-Increase the dose a little. If no effects stay on it for 4-7 days.
-carry on like this til you have the dose that seems to suit you and your body.
-If my body won't tolerate the increase, I abandon it.

If you were gardually able to increase the dose it's very likely herx, if you were unable to it's very likely not suitable for you at this time. (But might be ok another time.)
 

Tammie

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I had a terrible time on probiotics, except for kefir....among other thigns I felt like I was seriously drugged and could barely move, was even more exhausted than usual and had worse MCS, etc....was not herxing either bc it went on way too long

after having that reaction I read something that explained that certain probiotics can casue an exacerbation of the higher levels of H2S that many of us have - I do not have the article anymore, but it was by one of the good CFS docs, and it made a lot of sense.....he did say that kefir can be beneficial, though, so I tried it and have had no problems with it (I grow my own rather than get the sweetened store stuff)
 

JPV

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after having that reaction I read something that explained that certain probiotics can casue an exacerbation of the higher levels of H2S that many of us have
This is probably the article that you were refering to...

Bringing the Heat: Dr. Logan on H2S, Fiber and the Gut

According to Dr. Logan, the problem is that most probiotics produce D-Lactate not H2S. Kefir apparently does not produce D-Lactate, which may be why it works well for you.

He recommends Align as a good probiotic for those with CFS. I use Culturelle (Lactobacillus GG) which does not produce D-Lactate either and it's cheaper than Align.

I wish people would refrain from using the term "herx" to refer to any negative reactions to different supplements. There are numerous potential causes for a negative reaction. I find that the term to be completely overused and misused by people in the CFS/FM community. This topic is a perfect example. The likely cause, according to Dr. Logan, of negative reactions of people with CFS to certain probiotics, has to do with the undesirable effects of D-Lactate production, not any sort of "die-off" symptoms.
 

JPV

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Does Culturelle need refrigeration.......
http://www.kirkmanlabs.com/ViewProductDetails@Product_ID@181@Product_Group_ID@1.aspx

Kirkman recommends storing Culturelle at refrigerated temperatures. Although the product may be maintained at room temperature, storing it under refrigeration can extend the stability of the product.
I should stress that Dr. Logan recommends Align for use with CFS. He does mention that probiotics of the Lactobacillus GG variety to be beneficial, but does not mention Culturelle by name. I shifted from Align to Culturelle after a month, purely because Culturelle was half the price. It seems to be working fine but I can't vouch for it's efficacy over Align with any certainty.
 

leaves

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Anyone tried vsl3 with any success? My doc wants me to try that next.
I am using vsl3 now. No bad effects I believe. I use it because it degrades oxalates, and I have an oxalate problem. Make sure to ask your dr to prescribe the double dose; your insurance will pay for it then (may have copayment though). Below the codes for the pharmacy:

vsl 3 ds (double strength) NDC
NDC 54482093001
GCN 97109
DIN 00903105
 

*GG*

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I use UDO's Choice from Canada with no notable deleterious effects. It cost me $20/month and I pick it up at my Chiro's office. The UDO's Choise that I use is Super 8 Hi Potency Probiotic, 30 Billion cells/serving. This has seemed to help my IBS significantly, used to be mostly lost stools and now much less often!
 

JPV

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Excerpt from: CFS Patient Advocate - Gut treatment using the Metametrix GI Effects test

VSL #3 is seen as a quite good and well-researched probiotic. It is ordered on the internet. Culturelle, available in grocery stores and pharmacies, is also well researched, and has the advantage of being D-Lactate free. D-Lactate producing Lactobacillus and Bifidobacter probiotics are seen as a problem for CFS patients. Custom Probiotics makes a D-Lactate free combination of Lacto and Bifido. Harry, who runs Custom Probiotics, seems happy to talk about the advantages of his products, which he has designed himself. Mutaflor makes a probiotic that is seen as providing great benefit. This product can be purchased in Germany and shipped to America. De Meirleir and Cheney both use this product. Recently, Dr. Alan Logan on Cort Johnsons most valuable site, has been promoting Align, a bifidobacterial probiotic. Align has a small amount of sugar in it, and is also D-Lactate free. Dr. Guyer recommends Allergy Researchs Russian Immune for boosting the immune system.

There is continuing research into various probiotics and their relationship to particular illnesses and to health in general. For instance. there is a probiotic in development that supposedly eats oxalates, for those of you that have that particular problem.

So it would be prudent to keep reading about probiotic research and keep in mind that it might also be useful to rotate probiotics.

One recipe for making gut ecology improvement might be this:

GNDL digestive Enzyme
Custom Probiotics, D-lactate free
Culturelle GG
Mutaflor
Russian Immune
Symbiotics Colostrum
Align
Glutagenics
 

susan

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I am in Australia so dont know if Culturelle would make the distance. I have heard that they are making the probiotics in such a way now that they can go without refrigeration for a period. I take Mutaflor and what a shock on only one tablet a week. Dreadful diahorrea after week 4 till week 7 then just cramps and now drunken like fatigue on the following day....all this on 1 tab a week and still feeling the effects after starting Jan 11th. Also taking a parasite cleanser herbal supp and coconut oil with it plus a broad range Multi Flora. My only alternative is to try to get the Custom made one from the US ...big $$$$$$s. I have noticed huge benefits so far.
 

andreamarie

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I take Culturelle. I know two of the docs who developed it (they are not making a profit from it.) I have Crohn's disease and many people with Crohn's can't tolerate probiotics. My former CFS doc takes Culturelle, as does my gastro. It is the only probiotic I know of that has been tested and survives stomach acid. It used to be a scrip. It is not refrigerated. I order it from drugstore.com because it's cheaper than the drugstore. I think they make one for people who are lactose intolerant. I used to get colds, etc. all the time but since I started it I don't. I don't know if drugstore.com ships to Australia.
 

susan

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Thanks so much JPV... you are quite the detective...and Andreamarie.. Just checked it out. Why is everything in this country soooo expensive.....3 times the price for Culturelle, cheaper to order from O, seas now I know It does not need refrigeration..
 

BEG

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Hi all,

Culturelle is available at drugstore.com for those of you who are housebound. It's 19.99. It's also available in pharmacies, grocery store chains, etc. Does anyone know where it is sold most inexpensively in the states?