Potential of Schisandra chinensis (Turcz.) Baill. in Human Health and Nutrition:

[perchance dreamer]

@Violeta, thanks for sharing your experience with the tea! I wonder if the eleuthero is why you had a hard time falling asleep.

I've read a lot of user reviews for the Dragon Herbs Longevity tea, and some mention they can drink it in the evening or before bed and feel like they get a sleep benefit, but I tried drinking it at night once, and it wrecked my sleep.

You might try drinking just 1 cup in the morning and see if you can still get benefits without sleep problems. For many people, the tea is gently energizing and also calming, but it's so variable how adaptogens affect people.

Every morning I drink either 1 cup of black tea or coffee soon after I wake up, followed by 1 cup of green tea after breakfast. The next time I try the Dragon Herbs tea, I'll skip the green tea and substitute it with the longevity tea.

 

[andyguitar]

Unless the impaired PDH function is caused by hypoxia, switching to anaerobic glycolysis, and correcting that would take care of the problem.

Hypoxia has come up in research and on this forum a lot in recent years so maybe it's at least part of the problem. Hypoxia is also known to cause dysfunction of amino acid metabolism.

I have to explain that a lot of times I want to do something, but can't make myself do it, due to feeling overwhelmed with everything that it involves

So better mental focus then?

I wonder if the eleuthero is why you had a hard time falling asleep.

Yeah probably is that.

 

[Violeta]

So better mental focus then?

Maybe more like will power.

 

[Violeta]

@Violeta, thanks for sharing your experience with the tea! I wonder if the eleuthero is why you had a hard time falling asleep.

Siberian ginseng can lower blood sugar by making one more sensitive to insulin, which I guess is to say it helps the sugar get into the cells. So I'm wondering if I couldn't sleep because of blood sugar dropping too much. Which could explain why drinking the milk helped me fall asleep.

Oh, gynostemma does the same thing. "Studies suggest it can help lower fasting plasma glucose and improve insulin sensitivity"

Wow, schisandra does the same thing.
Yes, Schisandra chinensis, specifically its lignans, has shown promise in improving insulin sensitivity. Studies suggest that Schisandra lignans can improve insulin resistance, reduce inflammation, and lower blood glucose levels, all of which are related to better insulin sensitivity.

I guess until my adrenals get strong enough, I might have to watch for this problem.

AI Overview

While adrenal glands don't directly secrete glucagon, they play a role in regulating blood sugar levels by working with other hormones like glucagon and epinephrine. Glucagon, primarily secreted by the pancreas, is a key hormone that increases blood glucose levels by stimulating the liver to release stored glucose and produce new glucose. Adrenal glands, particularly the adrenal medulla, release epinephrine (also known as adrenaline), which also contributes to raising blood glucose during low blood sugar situations.

Something to keep in mind.

 

[Violeta]

You might try drinking just 1 cup in the morning and see if you can still get benefits without sleep problems. For many people, the tea is gently energizing and also calming, but it's so variable how adaptogens affect people.

Yes, I am going to not drink it in the evening after dinner. I'll see how that goes.

 

[Violeta]

Schisandra chinensis and its bioactive components demonstrate effects that appear to mitigate neuronal calcium dysregulation, potentially offering neuroprotection in various neurological disorders by affecting calcium influx, mitigating oxidative stress, and supporting mitochondrial function.

Schisandra chinensis Fructus and Its Active Ingredients as Promising Resources for the Treatment of Neurological Diseases​

https://www.mdpi.com/1422-0067/19/7/1970#:~:text=4.4.&text=ICO isolated from SCF showed,more detail) [50].

Not from the above paper:

• Impact on communication and excitability: This disregulation of neuronal Ca²⁺ can lead to augmented intercellular Ca²⁺ signaling among neurons and satellite glial cells, a type of glial cell found in sensory ganglia. This heightened calcium activity and potentially altered electrical signaling in neurons likely contributes to the pain and other neurological symptoms associated with shingles, such as postherpetic neuralgia.

 

[Mary]

Well, yesterday was interesting. I was able to do more weed whacking in the heat, which includes sweeping up the mess. I didn't feel good when I was done, but just that I was able to do it was amazing to me.

I was tired after I did that, took a nap, and got that feeling like I wasn't going to be able to get up. I had to get up, and then was able to stay up for a while. Was functional the rest of the day.

That's very different from what I've been experiencing.

This sounds promising to me! : ) This is from the schisandra, right?

Schisandra chinensis and its bioactive components demonstrate effects that appear to mitigate neuronal calcium dysregulation, potentially offering neuroprotection in various neurological disorders by affecting calcium influx, mitigating oxidative stress, and supporting mitochondrial function.

This also sounds very good. There's a saying, I don't know who coined it (Amy Yasko quotes this on FB but I think it predates her), that glutamate is the gun and calcium is the bullet. I know, we always think of too much glutamate as causing excitotoxicity and insomnia but apparently it's the calcium which actually destroys nerve cells and causes insomnia, etc. From metamia (an unsecure website so I'm not including the link):

Calcium is another factor in the glutamate GABA story. If glutamate is like a gun, then calcium is the bullet. Glutamate creates the scenario for excitotoxicity to happen, but the agent that actually destroys the nerve cell is the influx of calcium. The combination of excessive glutamate from any source and too much calcium is major.

And of course oxidative stress is constantly mentioned with regard to ME/CFS and supporting mitochondria - what's not to like about schisandra? I am going to order some after I get back from a trip to see one of my sons and his fiancee - it's taking days to get ready to go, going slow and resting a lot, so I can crash after I get there - it's sort of grueling, traveling, but I want to go . . .

 

[JES]

Perhaps. Quick heads up here-rat study which shows that herb does have measurable effect. View attachment 56016

Interesting, but CFS rat models have had many other treatments tested that were supposedly found to work, but it's quite a bit different in humans. Some examples:

Ginseng: https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/pharmacology/articles/10.3389/fphar.2023.1163638/full
EGCG (green tea): https://www.researchgate.net/public...odel_of_load-induced_chronic_fatigue_syndrome
Astragalus: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19103273/

Quite a few of these popular herbs appear to show positive effects after inducing "CFS" to mice or rats. The main problem with this is that whatever they claim is "CFS" is often more like fatigue. It has probably little or nothing to do with the mechanisms behind the neuroimmune disorder ME/CFS.

 

[tyson oberle]

Yes, I am going to not drink it in the evening after dinner. I'll see how that goes.

Maybe it was the added sugar?

 

[Violeta]

Maybe it was the added sugar?

But then I drank a cup of milk with homemade chocolate syrup that has sugar in it and I fell asleep.

I drank some again yesterday after dinner, 1/2 hour later a cup of milk, and did not have insomnia last night. In fact, I slept very deeply.

 

[Violeta]

Interesting, but CFS rat models have had many other treatments tested that were supposedly found to work, but it's quite a bit different in humans. Some examples:

Ginseng: https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/pharmacology/articles/10.3389/fphar.2023.1163638/full
EGCG (green tea): https://www.researchgate.net/public...odel_of_load-induced_chronic_fatigue_syndrome
Astragalus: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19103273/

Quite a few of these popular herbs appear to show positive effects after inducing "CFS" to mice or rats. The main problem with this is that whatever they claim is "CFS" is often more like fatigue. It has probably little or nothing to do with the mechanisms behind the neuroimmune disorder ME/CFS.

I think the studies done on rats are to try to figure out how these popular herbs do what they have been found to do in humans.

For example: Ginseng is a popular herbal remedy, known for its potential to improve overall health and wellness, and is derived from the root of the Panax ginseng plant. It's been used for centuries in traditional Chinese medicine as an adaptogen, helping the body resist stress.

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5628357/
Ginseng may help modulate the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal (HPA) axis, which is often impaired in ME/CFS, potentially improving the body's response to stress.

Astragalus
https://draxe.com/nutrition/astragalus/

Astragalus is a plant within the Leguminosae (beans or legumes) family, with a very long history as an immune system booster and disease fighter.

It’s been used as an adaptogen for thousands of years in Traditional Chinese Medicine in order to help the body fight off stress and disease.

So they concluded that the restoration of the TCA metabolic pathways of alanine, aspartate, and glutamate, which ae pathways known to be affected in ME/CFS, and were found to be corrected in the study, is why/how the herb's constituents help resolve ME/CFS.

 

[JES]

So they concluded that the restoration of the TCA metabolic pathways of alanine, aspartate, and glutamate, which ae pathways known to be affected in ME/CFS, and were found to be corrected in the study, is why/how the herb's constituents help resolve ME/CFS.

Fine using rats, but the problem is there is currently no rat model that even remotely convincingly replicates the human neuroimmune condition ME/CFS.

The astragalus study I linked was just an example of how what these studies looking at "CFS" in animals are nothing like ME/CFS. They simple made the rats force swim and restricted food to induce "CFS".

If it was that simple, we could all just load up on body building and energy promoting supplements, amino acids etc. and we'd be cured or at least significantly recovered.