Potential of Schisandra chinensis (Turcz.) Baill. in Human Health and Nutrition:

[Violeta]

This seems to be helping.

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6412213/


Schisandra chinensis is a plant whose fruits have a long-standing use in traditional Chinese medicine. They have been used in the treatment of diseases of the gastrointestinal (GI) tract, respiratory failure, cardiovascular diseases, body fatigue and weakness, excessive sweating, and insomnia [3].

They were also reported to reduce hunger, delay aging, increase vitality, and improve mental health [4].

They demonstrate neuro and hepato-protective, anti-inflammatory, antioxidative, detoxification, immunostimulant, antiviral, and anti-cancer activities, as well as cardiovascular and skin-protective properties [5,6,7,8].

Reviews of the pro-health effects of SCE focus primarily on their influence on the central nervous, sympathetic, cardiovascular, endocrine, and respiratory systems, as well as its adaptogenic, hepatoprotective, immunostimulant, antioxidant, ergogenic, and anti-stress activities [3,4,9,10,11].

This review provides updated information on the phytochemical composition of SCE and the mechanisms underlying its beneficial activity in humans, including its anti-cancer, antimicrobial, anti-diabetic, anti-obesity, and anti-aging actions.

 

[Violeta]

Effect of Schisandra chinensis Extract Supplementation on Quadriceps Muscle Strength and Fatigue in Adult Women: A Randomized, Double-Blind, Placebo-Controlled Trial​

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7177795/

Supplementation of SC extract may help to improve quadriceps muscle strength (QMS) as well as decrease lactate level at rest in adult women.

In the Schisandra group, the lactate level at rest was significantly decreased (p < 0.05), but had no change in the placebo group after 12 weeks.

 

[Violeta]

Effect of Saengmaeksan on Fatigue, Liver Function, and Immunity Combined with High-Intensity Training​

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10328733/

What do you think? Can we apply this information to ME/CFS?

In this study, they found the herbal combination of Lirio platyphlla, Panax ginseng, and Schisandra chinensis improves fatigue, liver function, and immunity in long-term high-intensity training. They used high-intensity training because long-term high-intensity training has a negative effect on these aspects.

We can't do high-intensity training, but elevated lactate and ammonia are common in ME/CFS.

The study:
We hypothesized that SMS intake will improve fatigue (ammonia, lactic acid), liver function (aspartate transaminidase (AST) and alanine aminotransferase (ALT)), and immunity (IgA, IgG, IgM) with high-intensity training.

These findings demonstrate that SMS intake can reduce ammonia, AST, ALT, and IgM levels, while causing an increase in IgA, which has a positive effect on fatigue reduction, liver function, and immunoglobulins in a high-intensity training or related environment.

PS: Lactate levels were not affected.

 

[andyguitar]

What do you think? Can we apply this information to ME/CFS?

Perhaps. Quick heads up here-rat study which shows that herb does have measurable effect.

 

[Violeta]

Perhaps. Quick heads up here-rat study which shows that herb does have measurable effect. View attachment 56016

Wow!

 

[Rufous McKinney]

Supplementation of SC

Schizandra fruit is one of the 37 herbs I consume in my custom chinese herbal formula. Thanks for posting this, as it's motivating me to consume some tea.

 

[Violeta]

Perhaps. Quick heads up here-rat study which shows that herb does have measurable effect. View attachment 56016

I just came back to read this again because it gives me hope. Thank you for finding it, @andyguitar.

 

[Violeta]

Schisandra Extract and Ascorbic Acid Synergistically Enhance Cognition in Mice Through Modulation of Mitochondrial Respiration​

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32218327/

Here, we demonstrate that a mixture of Schisandra chinensis extract (SCE) and ascorbic acid (AA) improved cognitive function and induced synaptic plasticity-regulating proteins by enhancing mitochondrial respiration.

You know what to do.

 

[Violeta]

Dibenzocyclooctadiene lignans from Schisandra chinensis protect primary cultures of rat cortical cells from glutamate-induced toxicity​

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/jnr.20089

Schisandra, particularly its lignan compounds, has shown neuroprotective effects against glutamate-induced neurotoxicity. Specifically, studies have found that certain dibenzocyclooctadiene lignans from Schisandra chinensis, like deoxyschisandrin, gomisin N, and wuweizisu C, can protect against glutamate-induced damage in neuronal cells. This protection involves reducing calcium influx, improving the glutathione defense system, and reducing cellular peroxide formation. Additionally, Schisandra extracts have been shown to impact the glutamatergic system in the context of depression models, suggesting potential for treating neurological disorders.

Among the five lignans, deoxyschisandrin, gomisin N, and wuweizisu C significantly attenuated glutamate-induced neurotoxicity as measured by 1) an inhibition in the increase of intracellular [Ca2+]; 2) an improvement in the glutathione defense system, the level of glutathione, and the activity of glutathione peroxidase; and 3) an inhibition in the formation of cellular peroxide.


From a different study:
Shingles and the role of glutamate in pain
Shingles, caused by the varicella-zoster virus, can lead to chronic nerve pain known as postherpetic neuralgia (PHN). Glutamate, a crucial excitatory neurotransmitter in the central and peripheral nervous systems, plays a significant role in pain transmission and the development of neuropathic pain conditions like PHN.

And w/r/t postherpetic neuralgia:

• Contribution to PHN: The persistent nerve damage and inflammation caused by shingles, combined with the dysregulation of the glutamate system, contributes to the chronic pain experienced in PHN.

 

[Violeta]

I am trying to figure out if schisandra will help with mast cell degranulation.

The PI3K-AKT pathway plays a significant role in mast cell activation, maturation, and function. It's involved in processes like degranulation, adhesion, and communication with other immune cells. The pathway is activated by various stimuli, including growth factors, cytokines, and G protein-coupled receptors.

Schisandra, particularly its lignans like schisandrin, can influence the PI3K-Akt pathway, a crucial signaling network involved in cellular metabolism and inflammation. This pathway, including PI3K (phosphoinositide 3-kinase) and Akt (protein kinase B), plays a role in regulating glucose metabolism, inflammatory responses, and even autophagy.

Schisandra, particularly its lignan gomisin M2, has shown potential in inhibiting mast cell-mediated allergic inflammation. Studies indicate that gomisin M2 can suppress mast cell degranulation, a key process in allergic reactions, by impacting intracellular calcium levels according to a study published in Frontiers. Additionally, another component of Schisandra, α-cubebenoate, has demonstrated anti-allergy effects by inhibiting degranulation and cytokine secretion in mast cells according to ScienceDirect.com.

 

[andyguitar]

Here, we demonstrate that a mixture of Schisandra chinensis extract (SCE) and ascorbic acid (AA) improved cognitive function

Interesting to see they used AA with it. A very common ingredient in herbal formulas is tangerine peel, which should contain AA.

 

[Violeta]

Interesting to see they used AA with it. A very common ingredient in herbal formulas is tangerine peel, which should contain AA.

I thought so, too. I am taking that into consideration when I take it.

 

[Mary]

This seems to be helping.

@Violeta - what is it helping you with? Can you provide the name of the product you're taking (e.g., the brand) and the dose?

 

[Violeta]

Hi Mary,

I am going to tempt bad luck and tell you what it seems to be helping.

Started eating tuna and little bit of beef without problems. (It affects uric acid levels.)

Can fill in the words that my daughter is having difficulty pulling up.

A couple of nights of better sleep. When my dog wakes me up I'm not so impatient.

Took some last night when my eyes started to burn and water. Seemed to help fairly quiekly.

I've been intermittently having feelings of depression. It's not happening so often.

Post-herpetic neuralgia is not quite as bad. (It helps with glutamate)

I bought bulk schisandra from Bulk Supplements and make my own capsules. I take about 4 00 capsules of it a day. I just tried putting the powder in ice tea, and it doesn't hurt the flavor. That's much easier than making capsules. But I read that you can take 500 mg per Kg body weight.

LIttle bit better with respect to fatigue and being able to handle stress.

I don't know if this will keep working or not. You know how that goes.

 

[Violeta]

This is an interesting look at CFS from a TCM point of view.

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1155/2015/945901

 

[pamojja]

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1155/2015/945901

Asked perplexity about the more common names of all the herbs in the table of this paper:

Spoiler: TCM herbs

Certainly! Here are the Chinese tonic herbs from your previous list, now with alternate Western scientific names and common synonyms where relevant. Herbs that appear in more than one category are only listed once, with all relevant synonyms.

Yang-invigorating

• Eucommiae Cortex: Eucommia Bark (Eucommia ulmoides), "Hardy Rubber Tree Bark," "Du Zhong"
• Psoraleae Fructus: Psoralea Fruit (Psoralea corylifolia), "Psoralea Seed," "Buguzhi," "Babchi"
• Cistanches Herba: Cistanche (Cistanche deserticola), "Rou Cong Rong," "Desert Ginseng"
• Cynomorii Herba: Cynomorium Stem (Cynomorium songaricum), "Suo Yang," "Maltese Fungus," "Desert Thumb"
• Epimedii Herba: Epimedium (Epimedium brevicornu, etc.), "Horny Goat Weed," "Yin Yang Huo," "Barrenwort"
• Dipsaci Radix: Dipsacus Root (Dipsacus asper), "Xu Duan," "Japanese Teasel Root," "Himalayan Teasel"
• Morindae Radix: Morinda Root (Morinda officinalis), "Ba Ji Tian," "Indian Mulberry Root"
• Cibotii Rhizoma: Cibotium Rhizome (Cibotium barometz), "Golden Hair Dog Fern," "Gou Ji"
• Drynariae Rhizoma: Drynaria Rhizome (Drynaria fortunei), "Gu Sui Bu," "Basket Fern"
• Cuscutae Semen: Dodder Seed (Cuscuta chinensis), "Tu Si Zi," "Chinese Dodder"

Qi-invigorating

• Schisandrae Fructus: Schisandra Fruit (Schisandra chinensis), "Five-Flavor Berry," "Wu Wei Zi"
• Ziziphi Fructus: Jujube Fruit (Ziziphus jujuba), "Chinese Date," "Da Zao"
• Astragali Radix: Astragalus Root (Astragalus membranaceus), "Huang Qi," "Milk Vetch Root"
• Codonopsis Radix: Codonopsis Root (Codonopsis pilosula), "Dang Shen," "Poor Man’s Ginseng"
• Fici Radix: Fig Root (Ficus hirta), also called "Hairy Fig Root," "Wuzhimaotao" (Ficus simplicissima is a possible synonym)
• Ginseng Radix: Ginseng (Panax ginseng), "Ren Shen," "Asian/Korean Ginseng"
• Glycyrrhizae Radix: Licorice Root (Glycyrrhiza uralensis), "Gan Cao," "Chinese Licorice"
• Pseudostellariae Radix: False Starwort Root (Pseudostellaria heterophylla), "Tai Zi Shen," "Prince Ginseng"
• Quinquefolii Radix: American Ginseng (Panax quinquefolius), "Xi Yang Shen"
• Atractylodis Rhizoma: Atractylodes Rhizome (Atractylodes macrocephala), "Bai Zhu," "White Atractylodes"
• Dioscoreae Rhizoma: Yam Rhizome (Dioscorea opposita), "Chinese Yam," "Shan Yao," "Nagaimo"

Yin-nourishing

• Ligustri Fructus: Glossy Privet Fruit (Ligustrum lucidum), "Nu Zhen Zi"
• Dendrobii Herba: Dendrobium Stem (Dendrobium nobile), "Shihu," "Noble Dendrobium," "Orchid Stem"
• Ecliptae Herba: Eclipta Herb (Eclipta prostrata), "Eclipta Alba," "False Daisy," "Han Lian Cao"
• Asparagi Radix: Asparagus Root (Asparagus cochinchinensis), "Tian Men Dong," "Chinese Asparagus"
• Ophiopogonis Radix: Ophiopogon Root (Ophiopogon japonicus), "Mai Men Dong," "Dwarf Lilyturf"
• Oryzae Radix: Rice Root (Oryza sativa), "Dao Gen"
• Polygonati Rhizoma: Solomon’s Seal Rhizome (Polygonatum sibiricum or Polygonatum kingianum), "Huang Jing," "King Solomon's Seal"
• Prinsepiae Semen: Prinsepia Seed (Prinsepia uniflora or Prinsepia utilis), "Ren Dong Zi"
• Sesami Semen: Sesame Seed (Sesamum indicum), "Hei Zhi Ma," "Black Sesame"

Blood-enriching

• Lycii Fructus: Goji Berry (Lycium barbarum), "Chinese Wolfberry," "Gou Qi Zi"
• Mori Fructus: Mulberry Fruit (Morus alba), "White Mulberry Fruit," "Sang Shen"
• Testa Dolichoris: Dolichos Seed Coat (Dolichos lablab), "Lablab Bean Hull," "Bai Bian Dou Yi"
• Loranthi Ramulus: Mistletoe Twig (Taxillus chinensis), "Sang Ji Sheng," "Mulberry Mistletoe"
• Angelicae Radix: Dong Quai (Angelica sinensis), "Dang Gui," "Chinese Angelica"
• Polygoni Radix: Fo-ti Root (Polygonum multiflorum), "He Shou Wu," "Fleeceflower Root"
• Rehmanniae Paraparata Radix: Prepared Rehmannia Root (Rehmannia glutinosa), "Shu Di Huang," "Chinese Foxglove Root"

Personally, took too little schizanda extract (90 mg/d for 16 years) for noticing direct effects.
The most licorice and atragallus extract at 160 mg/d each.
Horny goat ext. 80 mg/d.
Panax ginseng ext. 50 mg/d.
Goji, Eclipta and Mulberry extracts at 30 mg each in average.

However, my approach of many herbal extracts in low amounts for synergistic effects, and some in high amounts, did work in the end (10 years) for remission of my PEMs.

 

[perchance dreamer]

Dragon Herbs sells Schisandra as a single-ingredient capsule or combined with other Chinese herbs. Schisandra is the 2nd ingredient in Dragon Herbs' Longevity tea.

I haven't tried Schisandra by itself, but I bought a box of DH's Longevity tea some years back. My health was really bad then, so maybe that's why I reacted as I did, but I found it made me deliciously sleepy at first, but later in the day gave me a lot of energy. The tea added to my sleeping difficulties because the energizing effect didn't stop until the next morning.

It's too bad. I found it delicious although it's a different taste from anything I've ever had before. An acquaintance has quit coffee and tea and just drinks Longevity tea. He finds it gently energizing and has no problems with it. I think we all react differently to adaptogens.

Here's a link to DH's Longevity tea.

https://www.dragonherbs.com/spring-dragon-longevity-tea-20-tea-bags-60-servings.html

 

[Violeta]

Dragon Herbs sells Schisandra as a single-ingredient capsule or combined with other Chinese herbs. Schisandra is the 2nd ingredient in Dragon Herbs' Longevity tea.

I haven't tried Schisandra by itself, but I bought a box of DH's Longevity tea some years back. It's 2nd ingredient is Schisandra. My health was really bad then, so maybe that's why I reacted as I did, but I found it made me deliciously sleepy at first, but later in the day gave me a lot of energy. The tea added to my sleeping difficulties because the energizing effect didn't stop until the next morning.

It's too bad. I found it delicious although it's a different taste from anything I've ever had before. An acquaintance has quit coffee and tea and just drinks Longevity tea. He finds it gently energizing and has no problems with it. I think we all react differently to adaptogens.

Here's a link to DH's Longevity tea.

https://www.dragonherbs.com/spring-dragon-longevity-tea-20-tea-bags-60-servings.html

I just ordered the tea. Can't wait.

 

[Violeta]

Hi Mary,

I am going to tempt bad luck and tell you what it seems to be helping.

Started eating tuna and little bit of beef without problems. (It affects uric acid levels.)

Can fill in the words that my daughter is having difficulty pulling up.

A couple of nights of better sleep. When my dog wakes me up I'm not so impatient.

Took some last night when my eyes started to burn and water. Seemed to help fairly quiekly.

I've been intermittently having feelings of depression. It's not happening so often.

Post-herpetic neuralgia is not quite as bad. (It helps with glutamate)

I bought bulk schisandra from Bulk Supplements and make my own capsules. I take about 4 00 capsules of it a day. I just tried putting the powder in ice tea, and it doesn't hurt the flavor. That's much easier than making capsules. But I read that you can take 500 mg per Kg body weight.

LIttle bit better with respect to fatigue and being able to handle stress.

I don't know if this will keep working or not. You know how that goes.

Something is changing. Today I took one of the dogs for a walk, weed whacked part of the driveway and the curb, and watered the flowers...in the heat. I thought I would be done for the day, but I took a shower and felt better. Still awake. Of course, tomorrow we'll see if it helps with the PEM.

I'm not sure if it's going to make me be able to eat purines, my neck is a little stiff.

 

[Rufous McKinney]

This is an interesting look at CFS from a TCM point of view.

very interesting, thank you for posting.......will take me quite some time to wade through that.

My current TCM mix does not contain: Cistanches Herba

I'm super interested in how this paper asserts this is a mitochrondrial dysfunction.

My lousy current state of affairs has little bearing on TCM because I"ve been off those protocols for a while now. I need to get back on track. Getting off track has something to do with getting sick wiht germs from my two little grandaughters: I stop the herbs when I get stomach or viral issues. So then getting back on track is a bit of a challenge. Delayed stomach emptying also returned. Oh Yay.

I had hjust restarted my TCM herbal tea, did it for two days and kaboom started getting the latest cold. I didn't get it very bad, because I took some Chinese "do not get sick" pills.

- Something that is not being addressed perhaps is that RED HEADS are genetically Yin Deficient. And red heads hardly existed in China. We "often do not compute".

I was advised to NEVER take berberine or metformin. These are drugs refined from chinese herbs and you never take them in this manner. I would "do something else".

the Core chinese herbal medicine relies upon about 600 herbs. But they have many many more than that. There are many many routes to addressing these things which is why it's an individualized medicine. Personal. Just for you.