Potassium burns

[Apple]

I've never taken potassium supplements but I get the burning stomach/intestines on a very regular basis. Which I believe is partly diet related. Mine seems to be triggered by high fructose/sugar foods such as certain fruits and other artificial sugars (the FODMAP diet has helped abit - google it). So it could be an ingredient in the syrup that you are taking as opposed to the potassium itself.

A Naturopath once suggested potassium salt to me as an alternative to regular salt (as I have severe salt cravings), but I didn't ever try it. Might be worth looking into..

Just be careful!

 

[Jonathan Edwards]

Hi Jonathan, blood level potassium is no indicator of whether you need more potassium or not, as was discovered by Dr. Max Gerson.

Blood level need not be an indicator of total body potassium deficit, for sure. But as I understand it there is no point in trying to raise potassium by eating it if the serum level is normal. You would need to correct the reason for the imbalance between cells and serum - by adjusting hormone levels or something like that. If you eat potassium it gets into the bloodstream first (via gut) and will go straight to the kidney where it will be peed out. To shift it in to cells would need something else - at least that is as I understand it. I couldn't find anything under Gerson-M and potassium on pubmed.

 

[manoj]

I couldn't find anything under Gerson-M and potassium on pubmed.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/751079

 

[barbc56]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/751079

I would hesitate to use Max Gerson as a credible resource when it comes to recommendations about potassium supplementation.

Gerson therapy is a bogus treatment for cancer developed by Max Gerson in the 1920s focusing on nutrition, a low sodium/ high potasium diet, coffee enemas, and supplements including latrile which is illegal in the US.

There is no plausible scientific rationale that this therapy should work nor are there any scientific studies to support it.

It's illegal to market Gerson therapy as a cancer treatment in the US. The only Gerson clinics are in Tijuana Mexico and Hungary. While there is s Gerson Institute in San Diego California, it's not a clinic but a charitable organization so doesn't offer treatment. It is, however, conveniently located next to the Mexican border and the Tijuana clinic which does offer treatment.

There have been several high profile patients who have died while using the Gerson Protocol for cancer. The most recent being Jess Ainscough (see below). There have also been deaths reported from the actual treatment protocols.

More information:

http://www.cam-cancer.org/CAM-Summaries/Dietary-approaches/Gerson-therapy/Is-it-safe

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20361473

https://www.mskcc.org/cancer-care/integrative-medicine/herbs/gerson-regimen

https://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/the-gerson-protocol-and-the-death-of-jess-ainscough/

http://skepdic.com/gersontherapy.htm

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Gerson#Evidence

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Gerson_Therapy

http://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/treatment/cam/hp/gerson-pdq

Barb

 

[manoj]

I would hesitate to use Max Gerson as a credible resource when it comes to recommendations about potassium supplementation.

Hmmm, if Gerson was a quack, Freddd too must be one. Both use potassium in unnatural doses. If it was the 15th century, both would have been burned at the stake!

 

[dannybex]

Thanks ahmo, that footbath will be my last resort if potassium gluconate is also scalding my tummy...

This is a guess, but the burning could've come from either the chloride or the citrate. You might consider trying potassium bicarbonate which is alkaline (like sodium bicarbonate). But I'm not a doctor, and don't use potassium myself, even while using some methylation supplements.

 

[barbc56]

Hmmm, if Gerson was a quack, Freddd too must be one. Both use potassium in unnatural doses. If it was the 15th century, both would have been burned at the stake!

I don't know enough about the merit of Fredd's protocol nor how it compares to the Gerson therapy to comment.

I do know that patients using the Gerson therapy have died from Hyperkalemia.

Barb

 

[Jonathan Edwards]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/751079

That is not a data paper. And judging by what it is it seems very unlikely to be derived from some reliable data that are hidden away somewhere. I cannot take that seriously, and barbc56 seems to be making some rather relevant points as usual!!

 

[Jonathan Edwards]

This is a guess, but the burning could've come from either the chloride or the citrate. You might consider trying potassium bicarbonate which is alkaline (like sodium bicarbonate). But I'm not a doctor, and don't use potassium myself, even while using some methylation supplements.

Not a chemist either it seems dannybex. Potassium chloride is neutral. Potassium citrate is alkaline like bicarbonate. Even potassium chloride can cause oesophageal stricture.

I appreciate that people like to chat about these things but if it is an exchange of scientifically erroneous pseudofacts and we are talking about something potentially lethal I worry. Is everyone quite happy now that potassium supplements can kill you? At least it is worth keeping in the back of the mind.

 

[Jonathan Edwards]

Hmmm, if Gerson was a quack, Freddd too must be one. Both use potassium in unnatural doses. If it was the 15th century, both would have been burned at the stake!

Well, it was you that said it manoj. These days the style is more to point out that nonsense is nonsense - and sometimes very dangerous nonsense. (I don't actually think it was quacks who were burned at the stake, it was maybe more the people who pointed out that the people in charge were quacks - so maybe I better check my wheels nuts like Nigel Farage. The Inquisition may just have changed methods.)

 

[dannybex]

Not a chemist either it seems dannybex. Potassium chloride is neutral. Potassium citrate is alkaline like bicarbonate. Even potassium chloride can cause oesophageal stricture.

I appreciate that people like to chat about these things but if it is an exchange of scientifically erroneous pseudofacts and we are talking about something potentially lethal I worry. Is everyone quite happy now that potassium supplements can kill you? At least it is worth keeping in the back of the mind.

I appreciate the correction, however insults, implied or otherwise, aren't really called for.

And I agree that potassium supplements can be dangerous and unnecessary. I've posted about that elsewhere.

 

[Jonathan Edwards]

I appreciate the correction, however insults, implied or otherwise, aren't really called for.

And I agree that potassium supplements can be dangerous and unnecessary. I've posted about that elsewhere.

No insult was implied dannybex. I get pulled up on my ignorance all the time and although the immediate effect is not too nice the learning is the best bit of the discussion. As you do realise, I know, my mission here is to try to get some consensus on whether or not lots of people have been following some rather dangerous and unsubstantiated suggestions or whether there may be some sense in it all. It is easy to suggest but maybe also easy to mislead unintentionally. I am aware that I may represent and often sound like the high priests of medical orthodoxy we all hate but I have to be a bit like that as a defence mechanism against people proclaiming some other form of irrefutable dogma.

I do apologise all the same.

 

[jimells]

I am aware that I may represent and often sound like the high priests of medical orthodoxy we all hate...

Personally, I really appreciate your attempts to improve the accuracy of our posts. Whenever I'm writing a post that involves medical knowledge, I know that I better have my ducks in a row, along with a reference to published research. If I'm not sure of the facts, I better stop and look them up, and maybe learn something in the process.

You don't sound like any high priest I've ever run into - they always demand unquestioning belief in their dogma. Carefully examining evidence and challenging unsupported claims is definitely not allowed by orthodoxies!

 

[manoj]

Just bought Now Foods potassium gluconate powder. I sincerely hope it won't end up in the footbath!

 

[garyfritz]

But as I understand it there is no point in trying to raise potassium by eating it if the serum level is normal. You would need to correct the reason for the imbalance between cells and serum - by adjusting hormone levels or something like that. If you eat potassium it gets into the bloodstream first (via gut) and will go straight to the kidney where it will be peed out.

I can only refer to my own experience. I have developed an acute need for B12. Since I started taking it, I seem to need more potassium. I'll occasionally get mild cramping in my legs. I can take a few hundred mg of potassium chloride or gluconate (about the amount in a single banana, so no risk of hyperkalemia), and within a few minutes the cramps ease. If it's a placebo effect, I'm very convincing. Or very gullible.

 

[manoj]

I can only refer to my own experience. I have developed an acute need for B12. Since I started taking it, I seem to need more potassium. I'll occasionally get mild cramping in my legs. I can take a few hundred mg of potassium chloride or gluconate (about the amount in a single banana, so no risk of hyperkalemia), and within a few minutes the cramps ease. If it's a placebo effect, I'm very convincing. Or very gullible.

The potassium probably gets permission from a doctor to go to the cramped muscle first before being peed out.

 

[Ellkaye]

Potassium tests are done by cardiologists for electrolyte testing i think. For people with cardiac issues along with cardiac enzymes.
There are goods that contain potassium

 

[Jonathan Edwards]

I can only refer to my own experience. I have developed an acute need for B12. Since I started taking it, I seem to need more potassium. I'll occasionally get mild cramping in my legs. I can take a few hundred mg of potassium chloride or gluconate (about the amount in a single banana, so no risk of hyperkalemia), and within a few minutes the cramps ease. If it's a placebo effect, I'm very convincing. Or very gullible.

Most people are pretty gullible at least about some things - so why be different?

Part of the placebo effect is that things were going to improve anyway. 'Occasional mild cramps' almost always improve anyway after a few minutes. I cannot see how oral potassium of a few hundred milligrams is going to alter muscle chemistry in a way that will alter muscle cramps in a few minutes. I just don't think body chemistry works like that. I am very open to new ideas but this stuff about potassium needs seems to me to be a very old idea that does not fit the facts in any credible way.

When Samuel Hahnemann invented homeopathy he probably realised that all responses to treatments were in the minds of the patients - they were in 1799, because nobody had any drugs that worked then. He probably also realised that rather than poisoning people with metals like arsenic and bismuth and mercury in large doses it would probably be better to not-poison people with more or less nothing at all. At the time he was probably doing the right thing - giving nothing rather than poison. So I am not too bothered about nothing treatments being used when there is no better option. But I worry about people taking chemicals like potassium on the basis of bogus scientific theories because they may indeed be poison for some people - if they have kidney disease for instance.

It is worth remembering that what we call the medical profession has been around for at least thousands of years and that for all but about half a century of that it has been almost entirely about giving placebos. The human concept of taking treatments arises out of the habit of giving placebos. Giving treatments that actually work is a strange modern idea. So don't underestimate the placebo effect!!

 

[garyfritz]

It is worth remembering that what we call the medical profession has been around for at least thousands of years and that for all but about half a century of that it has been almost entirely about giving placebos. The human concept of taking treatments arises out of the habit of giving placebos. Giving treatments that actually work is a strange modern idea.

Ah yes, for thousands of years foolish savages actually thought willow bark helped their pains and fevers, foxglove helped their dropsy, and so on. I'm sure they were very grateful when modern medicine blessed them and magically (whoops, I mean "scientifically") transformed their all-in-your-head witchdoctor placebos into effective medicines.

Forgive me if I don't accept your automatic dismissal of my personal experience. I'm very aware of the placebo effect. But I don't accept that I could wake with painful knotted calf muscles, which continue to hurt as long as I don't do anything, but relax shortly after I take a dose of potassium -- and I did it all with the power of my mind. That powerful placebo effect never worked for me with aspirin, for example. I don't take aspirin for headaches because it doesn't work for me.

I suggest you consider that not everything prescribed by doctors is safe or effective (can you say "statins" or "high-carb diets" ?) -- nor is everything NOT prescribed by doctors automatically an ineffective placebo. And your understanding is not required for something to work.

 

[Squirmy85]

I know if your so low on potassium and you need IV intervention they have to do it extremely slowly cause potassium burns really badly.
Perhaps food sources would be a good way to get it. I was drinking "weight-loss shakes" as a multi vitamin cause vitamin E causes a horrible stomach ache even with food (without food I throw up). They're usually high in potassium. I didn't use them to loose weight, but they helped get vitamin E in me with out major setbacks or stomach ache.