Possible UTI and nitrofurantoin safety, troubleshooting

[frozenborderline]

Problems with the prostate can do it. Interstitial Cystitis is another thing and ketamine used recreationally can cause similar issues to this so Urologists are using the same diagnostic criteria for interstitial cystitis if ketamine is suspected to be causing some bladder damage. If your issue involves having some discomfort in the left testicle too, renal Nutcracker Syndrome is a other possibility.

UTI's can be self limiting but I think they tend to escalate more rapidly in men than in women in cases of bacterial infection. Trimethoprim is the first line of antibiotics I'm usually prescribed for frequent UTI's. I used to be able to keep them at bay with just vitamin C (1000mg 3 x a day at the first signs of a tingle when peeing) as a urinary acidifier but don't tolerate it at that level anymore. I can often keep them at bay now taking Hiprex (methenamine) instead, but it's also pretty hard on my gut.

Here's some good info on treating UTI's;
https://www.chronicutiaustralia.org.au/treatment/

https://www.sahealth.sa.gov.au/wps/wcm/connect/c7a3f980432af25ca680f68cd21c605e/Clinical_Guideline_Empirical_Treatment+of+Bacterial_UTI_v1.0_06.06.2019.pdf?MOD=AJPERES&CACHEID=ROOTWORKSPACE-c7a3f980432af25ca680f68cd21c605e-n5irFTp

everyone normally says ketamine at therapeutic dose range won't cause cystitis or damage but maybe I'm just sensitive.

 

[frozenborderline]

[GROUP=][/GROUP]

Are you male or female?

Did you have urine culture or at least a quick test ? What did it show (leukocytes, nitrite, erythrocytes)?

what tests should I request

 

[frozenborderline]

Hello @frozenborderline.. Do you have other problems apart from the UTI's.

If you're on very high doses of ketamine, you may find yourself in rather severe trouble. I gather you're taking it for neuropathic pain, is that so? Most states (and again, I don't know where Vermont stands in this) are in the midst of clamping down on not just opioids but almost any drug that helps relieve severe pain. I hope this isn't happening in your are

I don't know if it's a UTI. The symptoms include burning and aching, feeling overly full bladder and urgency when there isn't a n ability to go. and extreme trouble emptyingg. The trouble is tha t I'm not at a high dose of ketamine and can't get opioid prescriptions, so ketamine is the one thing that helps me and if this moderate dose is too much for my bladder then taking that away is basically the last straw for my quality of life I took ketamine a little more intermittently but still at decent size doses for over a year without this problem . I'm hoping I do have a uti and the ketamine just making it worse.

I'm not in Vermont. Was doing mold avoidance in the southwest and am going to live there but rn waiting for surgery and palliative care in NYC area

I can't reiterate enough if I cant take ketamine it's sort of last straw for quality of life.

 

[frozenborderline]

I'm too tired to research. I want to know if this scenario is plausible. The ketamine just worsening inflammation from a uti or temporary inflammation caused by frequent use that could go away with laying off it for a period of time

 

[frozenborderline]

and if I can at least get Suboxone from suboxone pain clinic

 

[frozenborderline]

what is differential diagnosis to thoroughly get to root of this. And given how I had some already existing bladder issues from tethered cord that were different but still notable , how do I know if that's related

 

[frozenborderline]

This tweet

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1271825729135796224

and answers suggest I can get interstitial cystitis just from infrequent medical ketamine use. I guess I've heard of people with me/cfs having that as a comorbidity so it makes sense we could be more sensitive

 

[Markus83]

You should see a urologist.

 

[Hip]

Could UTI be worsened by Inflammation caused by ketamine.

Checking Google it says ketamine has an anti-inflammatory effect on the immune system.

 

[frozenborderline]

Checking Google it says ketamine has an anti-inflammatory effect on the immune system.

In general it's anti inflammatory maybe but just by virtue of the supposed bladder irritation it can cause just via crystals poking the tissue , wouldn't that create local inflammation ?

 

[frozenborderline]

You should see a urologist.

If I could I would. And maybe I will. But it would be good to know in general what tests in asking for etc

 

[Markus83]

But it would be good to know in general what tests in asking for etc

An urologist should know what to do. To prove or exclude an infection I already told you what to do. These test stripes (named combur 5 in my country) are an easy way to check if there is an infection. I think every pharmacy should have this and if not, certainly every GP has it. If positive I would do a urine culture to see what bug you have and how the resistance situation is. Maybe you need additional tests like PCR because not all bugs can be grown in the lab. But first I would use a test stripe.

 

[Hip]

In general it's anti inflammatory maybe but just by virtue of the supposed bladder irritation it can cause just via crystals poking the tissue , wouldn't that create local inflammation ?

I did not know that ketamine can affect the bladder, but I just learnt that it can. And it looks like it can turn into a potentially irreversible issue called ketamine bladder syndrome (aka ketamine cystitis). This article says:

How does ketamine damage the bladder?

• It causes inflammation, ulceration and scarring of the bladder lining and wall.
• The inflamed bladder lining causes symptoms similar to cystitis – urinary frequency,
• urgency and pain.
• The scarring causes the bladder to become stiff and shrink. The amount of urine the
• bladder can hold reduces from the normal capacity of 500ml, down to 50ml in severe cases.

What are the symptoms of ketamine bladder syndrome?

• Pain in the bladder area, particularly as the bladder fills.
• Pain on passing urine.
• Blood in the urine.
• Increased frequency and a persistent feeling of bladder fullness, due to the bladder
• shrinking and only able to hold a small amount of urine.
• Urgency – a sudden need to pass urine. This may be accompanied by urinary
• incontinence (urine leaking out).

Is ketamine bladder syndrome reversible?

• If detected early, and ketamine use is stopped, the damage done to the bladder may
• stabilise or be reversible.
• If ketamine use continues, the inflammation and scarring will progress and the
• damage will be irreversible.

I guess the question is, do you have this ketamine cystitis, or just an UTI?

 

[Learner1]

Wonder what The mechanism was for ketamine to help you.

I did find some literature on nitrofantoin.

"Daily application of nitrofurantoin resulted in massive microbiome shifts, whereas phytotherapy with CLR largely preserved the gut microbiota.'

"Nitrofurantoin raised risk of. oxalates and kidney stones by 2-3 times. About 10% of the males in the US have them and getting rid the f them is awful.... Best to not nksdt all your oxalate degrading with an antibiotic.

Have you looked into biofilm busters like nattokinase or lumbrokinase? Supplements can be mighty useful and have less than a nuclear bomb effect some pharmaceuticals have...

 

[Learner1]

In general it's anti inflammatory maybe but just by virtue of the supposed bladder irritation it can cause just via crystals poking the tissue , wouldn't that create local inflammation ?

Those crystals could be oxalate crystals. Have you done a Great Plains OAT test to look for oxalates? Or Viome?

 

[kangaSue]

everyone normally says ketamine at therapeutic dose range won't cause cystitis or damage but maybe I'm just sensitive.

My mention of "recreational use" was meant to imply that this typically involves chronic abuse of the dose of the drug, and often on a regular basis, to be a cause ketamine cystitis. A daily therapeutic dose of 200mg or more for a period of several months can be an issue for some people though
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pd...WE0NiNkh_6UDRY_TljdSaztxgMx4zecij7-pbVTJGxzIo

 

[frozenborderline]

A daily therapeutic dose of 200mg or more for a period of several months can be an issue for some people though
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pd...WE0NiNkh_6UDRY_TljdSaztxgMx4zecij7-pbVTJGxzIo

I did not reach those doses, definitely not for months.

 

[frozenborderline]

But maybe I'm more sensitive

 

[frozenborderline]

Those crystals could be oxalate crystals. Have you done a Great Plains OAT test to look for oxalates? Or Viome?

No. Have not. I tend to not trust private labs on those things plus I don't really have a ton of money for private tests. Their mycotoxun tests aren't evidence based although maybe that isn't a reason to write off all or their tests.

But I'm confused... how.could oxalate Crystal's be related to ketamine. I thought norketamine crystallizing in the bladder was what caused the issues and oxalates is a separate issue

 

[frozenborderline]

Wonder what The mechanism was for ketamine to help you.

Lowering glutamate in brain and especially brainstem. I think it's that simple. And also it just plain helps with acute pain of any type.. which is why it's used in ERs to treat pain when they don't want to use opioids. But the glutamate would explain why it also helps w sound sensitivity and stuff. I've tried lots of supplements and meds aimed at glutamate and ketamine is the only one that helped , besides xenon which is too cost prohibitive