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Positives of regular folic acid

PokerPlayer

Guest
Messages
125
Location
Seattle, Washington
So I know that there are a lot of reasons to take the reduced forms of folic acid like folinic acid or methylfolate. However, I am not sure if this is a good idea for me.

My responses below


High dosage folic acid 4000mcg per day:
Pros:My crash threshold is raised greatly for my body. I can even go on short jogs without feeling muscle weakness or air hung or anxiety symptoms. I can drink alcohol without any worsening of symptoms the next day. I get great sleep every single night.
Cons:However, I get brain fog and brain inflammation symptoms very easily from exertion. The worst part is that I feel in a fog all day 24/7, and I don't want to talk to people at all. I also feel somewhat devoid of emotion. I mostly feel a constant strong sense of inflammation in my brain, even worse than the day after having a concussion in the past.

No folic acid, just hydroxy b12 and 200mcg methylfolate:
Pros: Brain is clear, almost no inflammation, unless I am active the whole day. I can talk to people and interact and joke just as quickly as they can. Basically, I feel like I have my personality back.

Cons: My crash threshold is considerably worse. I get anxious easily, I get air hunger easier. I even get muscle weakness and muscle pains if I push too hard.

Leading up to the last couple days I was on the no folic acid regimen and I crashed terribly. I was really scared and knew I hated folic acid brain fog, but remembered how good my body was on it so I had no choice but to go back to it. Well, within 24 hours I was sleeping like a baby for the first time in a month and my muscle weakness and pain that I had the last 2 weeks went away as well. A dramatic reaction.

Thoughts:
I think this is a clear sign of some sort of brain infection or neurological disease, definitely a sign of mitochondrial disorder and energy producing problems. Folic acid is supposed to be good for nervous system function, which it obvious helps me immensely. But why does it cause such horrible brain fog? Do I maybe not even have cfs/me but some sort of bacterial brain infection as an underlying cause? Maybe lyme disease?

Moving forward
I have no choice but to take folic acid, but will try to find the right balance of dosage that gives me a decent crash threshold, but still keeps the inflammation in my brain low enough where I can keep up cognitively with a conversation with people.
 

richvank

Senior Member
Messages
2,732
So I know that there are a lot of reasons to take the reduced forms of folic acid like folinic acid or methylfolate. However, I am not sure if this is a good idea for me.

My responses below


High dosage folic acid 4000mcg per day:
Pros:My crash threshold is raised greatly for my body. I can even go on short jogs without feeling muscle weakness or air hung or anxiety symptoms. I can drink alcohol without any worsening of symptoms the next day. I get great sleep every single night.
Cons:However, I get brain fog and brain inflammation symptoms very easily from exertion. The worst part is that I feel in a fog all day 24/7, and I don't want to talk to people at all. I also feel somewhat devoid of emotion. I mostly feel a constant strong sense of inflammation in my brain, even worse than the day after having a concussion in the past.

No folic acid, just hydroxy b12 and 200mcg methylfolate:
Pros: Brain is clear, almost no inflammation, unless I am active the whole day. I can talk to people and interact and joke just as quickly as they can. Basically, I feel like I have my personality back.

Cons: My crash threshold is considerably worse. I get anxious easily, I get air hunger easier. I even get muscle weakness and muscle pains if I push too hard.

Leading up to the last couple days I was on the no folic acid regimen and I crashed terribly. I was really scared and knew I hated folic acid brain fog, but remembered how good my body was on it so I had no choice but to go back to it. Well, within 24 hours I was sleeping like a baby for the first time in a month and my muscle weakness and pain that I had the last 2 weeks went away as well. A dramatic reaction.

Thoughts:
I think this is a clear sign of some sort of brain infection or neurological disease, definitely a sign of mitochondrial disorder and energy producing problems. Folic acid is supposed to be good for nervous system function, which it obvious helps me immensely. But why does it cause such horrible brain fog? Do I maybe not even have cfs/me but some sort of bacterial brain infection as an underlying cause? Maybe lyme disease?

Moving forward
I have no choice but to take folic acid, but will try to find the right balance of dosage that gives me a decent crash threshold, but still keeps the inflammation in my brain low enough where I can keep up cognitively with a conversation with people.

Hi, PokerPlayer.

Very interesting!

It's known that methylfolate is the only folate that actually enters the brain. It may be that when you take high-dose folic acid, the rest of your body is able to make use of it, because you have a functioning DHFR enzyme, but perhaps it is not able to convert to methylfolate well at the blood-brain barrier, and thus does not supply the brain with enough folate. That doesn't seem to explain the better sleep, though.

I wonder what your response would be to folinic acid.

Rich
 

liquid sky

Senior Member
Messages
371
Have you ever tried taking smaller doses of both together? One to feed the body and one to feed the mind?
 

PokerPlayer

Guest
Messages
125
Location
Seattle, Washington
More interesting stuff on why folic acid may bring so much calmness to my nervous system.... it may be an anti candida supplement, as it could be classified as an "antifolate" because when taken in large supplemental amounts it may actually interfere with folinic acid and methylfolate conversion.

So yeah, use folic acid to fight mycotics, but be ready for some cognitive dysfunction as your brain does not get active folates?

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17046206
Antifolates as antimycotics? Connection between the folic acid cycle and the ergosterol biosynthesis pathway in Candida albicans.
Navarro-Martnez MD, Cabezas-Herrera J, Rodrguez-Lpez JN.
Source

Grupo de Investigacin de Enzimologa, Departamento de Bioqumica y Biologa Molecular A, Facultad de Biologa, Universidad de Murcia, E-30100 Espinardo, Murcia, Spain.
Abstract

The increased incidence of invasive mycoses and the emerging problem of antifungal drug resistance have encouraged the search for new antifungal agents or effective combinations of existing drugs. Infections due to Candida albicans are usually treated with azole antifungals such as fluconazole, ketoconazole or itraconazole. Whilst azoles may have little or no toxicity, they generally offer rather poor fungicidal activity. Even in the absence of resistance, treatment failures or recurrent infections are not uncommon, especially in immunocompromised individuals. Here we demonstrate that the non-classical antifolate pyrimethamine shows synergy with azole antifungal compounds and interferes with the ergosterol biosynthesis pathway in C. albicans. By disturbing folate metabolism in this fungus, pyrimethamine can inhibit ergosterol production. The molecular connection between the folic acid cycle and the ergosterol biosynthesis pathway is discussed and we show that the filamentous form of this fungus is more susceptible to methotrexate than the yeast form because the drug is more effectively transported through the membrane of the filamentous form. When used to treat the hyphal form, methotrexate showed synergy with other antifungals such as azoles and terbinafine. This finding could have important clinical applications, as a combination of azoles with antifolates and/or inhibitors of folic acid synthesis could represent an attractive alternative for the treatment of C. albicans infections.
 

PokerPlayer

Guest
Messages
125
Location
Seattle, Washington
(C)onsumption of more than 266 mcg of synthetic folic acid (PGA) results in absorption of unreduced PGA, which may interfere with folate metabolism for a period of years [1]. A 2004 paper from the British Medical Journal confirmed what many natural health professional have known all along: since folic acid is unnatural and the body cannot fully convert large amounts of it into usable folate, this artificial substance can be absorbed and may have unknown negative consequences in the human body [13], folate supplementation obviously should be in Food folate forms and not folic acid!

Do you guys get what I am saying now? High dosage folic acid = impaired folate synthesis = antimycotic
 

dannybex

Senior Member
Messages
3,555
Location
Seattle
Interesting theory...

All i can say is I had multiple candida and/or 'non-candida' yeast infections in the past when I was taking a b12/folic acid sublingual for years, and just had a stool test (after being off folic acid for 8 months) and have no candida at all.

But, on the flip side, the methylation continues to be difficult...muscle weakness, muscle loss, anxiety, mood swings...so must go really slowly...but that could in part be due to a copper overload (toxicity) problem that I've just completed testing for. Copper depletes zinc, and everyone needs ample zinc for growth, protein/fat/carb synthesis, and immune function.

Kind of disturbing too that folic acid may 'disturb' folate metabolism for years.
 

PokerPlayer

Guest
Messages
125
Location
Seattle, Washington
Kind of disturbing too that folic acid may 'disturb' folate metabolism for years.

Yeah, I took 4000mcg folic acid per day for about 3 months, and it took 6 months of the Rich VanK protocol for me to finally get my cognitive capabilities back. So I don't think it can effect folate metabolism for years, but it does take a while to work out of your system.