Polyuria, Nocturia and Polydipsia--ME symptoms?

A

Allyson

Senior Member
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Location
Australia, Melbourne
MeSci said:
I have two types of polyuria - dilute and concentrated. I've discussed it on other threads and in my blog. The dilute type responds to desmopressin, the other type doesn't and can have a wide range of causes.

I have a file on polyuria but can't upload the pdf so will try to post 3 pages at a time.
Click to expand...


SO sorry I never saw these til now Me sci - thank you so much!
are you able to say quicklywhat they re about or is that pushing envelope?

CHeers! much appciated

Ally
 
MeSci

MeSci

ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6?
Messages
8,233
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Cornwall, UK
Allyson said:
SO sorry I never saw these til now Me sci - thank you so much!
are you able to say quicklywhat they re about or is that pushing envelope?

CHeers! much appciated

Ally
Click to expand...

Sorry - haven't read it lately so can't remember details, but it states how to differentiate different types of polyuria, e.g. by what is dissolved in the urine, which may be glucose, minerals or other things. I'm not sure how good it is. I noticed that it does advise cutting down on salt in one section, which is unwise for some people and may have no basis at all.

There has also long been a tendency in the health services and in some papers to assume that people are drinking too much fluid (even when they say they are not and have kept fluid charts to prove it!).

Yet another problem is that there are different views on what constitutes polyuria, with docs in the UK having very simplistic definitions which don't take account of people's weight, which is idiotic.

But the paper is interesting nonetheless and I think it does have some useful info in it.
 
Leopardtail

Leopardtail

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stridor said:
Jeepers @Leopardtail, all I was trying to do was to keep count on a piece of paper beside the sink in the bathroom and couldn't even get that sorted out! :) I was peeing every 12 minutes in the evenings and I have my wife to thank for that measurement.
Click to expand...
LOL,

I managed to do it by putting plastic milk container next to the toilet, peeing into it, and putting a line on each time I urinated. I was shocked just how much was passing through me. I you are weeing more than hourly, your doctor should be making a proper assessment for what's causing your urination. He/she should be ruling out both of Addison's and Diabetes insipidus. Doing it that way allowed me to get both numbers of times and amount of urine. Have those bits of information is what caused my GP to try a bit harder.

I fully sympathise though, I found it bloody hard work too.

Funnily enough it turned out to be Citalopram that made me much worse (for me most anti-depressants have nasty side effects).
 
Leopardtail

Leopardtail

Senior Member
Messages
1,151
Location
England
MeSci said:
Sorry - haven't read it lately so can't remember details, but it states how to differentiate different types of polyuria, e.g. by what is dissolved in the urine, which may be glucose, minerals or other things. I'm not sure how good it is. I noticed that it does advise cutting down on salt in one section, which is unwise for some people and may have no basis at all.

There has also long been a tendency in the health services and in some papers to assume that people are drinking too much fluid (even when they say they are not and have kept fluid charts to prove it!).

Yet another problem is that there are different views on what constitutes polyuria, with docs in the UK having very simplistic definitions which don't take account of people's weight, which is idiotic.

But the paper is interesting nonetheless and I think it does have some useful info in it.
Click to expand...
First rule of Medicine MeSci.. if the doctor can't understand it, it must be the patients fault...

;-)
 
A

Allyson

Senior Member
Messages
1,684
Location
Australia, Melbourne
MeSci said:
Sorry - haven't read it lately so can't remember details, but it states how to differentiate different types of polyuria, e.g. by what is dissolved in the urine, which may be glucose, minerals or other things. I'm not sure how good it is. I noticed that it does advise cutting down on salt in one section, which is unwise for some people and may have no basis at all.

There has also long been a tendency in the health services and in some papers to assume that people are drinking too much fluid (even when they say they are not and have kept fluid charts to prove it!).

Yet another problem is that there are different views on what constitutes polyuria, with docs in the UK having very simplistic definitions which don't take account of people's weight, which is idiotic.

But the paper is interesting nonetheless and I think it does have some useful info in it.
Click to expand...

That sounds very interesting I will read - it is one symptom my doc as never asked about

And when i mentioned I he said it was not part of POTS

but when I asked on fb lots of POTsies said they did have it...so maybe it is now....

Allly
 
Leopardtail

Leopardtail

Senior Member
Messages
1,151
Location
England
Allyson said:
That sounds very interesting I will read - it is one symptom my doc as never asked about

And when i mentioned I he said it was not part of POTS

but when I asked on fb lots of POTsies said they did have it...so maybe it is now....

Allly
Click to expand...
Ally,

Polyuria can cause POTS and meds to stop it are used to treat it (see Julia Newtons study) but some doctors are adamant it's caused only by the nervous system.

best,
Leo
 
MeSci

MeSci

ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6?
Messages
8,233
Location
Cornwall, UK
Leopardtail said:
LOL,

I managed to do it by putting plastic milk container next to the toilet, peeing into it, and putting a line on each time I urinated. I was shocked just how much was passing through me. I you are weeing more than hourly, your doctor should be making a proper assessment for what's causing your urination. He/she should be ruling out both of Addison's and Diabetes insipidus. Doing it that way allowed me to get both numbers of times and amount of urine. Have those bits of information is what caused my GP to try a bit harder.

I fully sympathise though, I found it bloody hard work too.

Funnily enough it turned out to be Citalopram that made me much worse (for me most anti-depressants have nasty side effects).
Click to expand...

Maybe your doctor is better than the ones I have had. I provided detailed fluid charts (intake and output), and underwent the standard fluid deprivation test, and had a Synacthen test, but these will not pick up idiosyncratic ME-type/partial/mixed-type diuresis/polyuria or ME-type endrocrine abnormalities. They therefore concluded that I was drinking too much water, ignoring my denials and expert info supplied.

At one point a GP stopped my desmopressin prescription without warning, discussion or explanation. I just turned up at the pharmacy to collect it and it wasn't there. When I phoned the doctor to ask why, I was treated with aggression and incorrect claims about what was and wasn't in my medical records (which I discovered later after finally getting a copy of them, which was like trying to get blood out of a stone).

I have ended up having to buy some of my desmopressin online or return to the nightmare from which it had released me. I would never have considered buying drugs online before that, partly due to all the horror stories in the media and partly due to already living in poverty due to ME.

Even the endocrinologist insisted that one had to be born with DI (!), it could not be partial or intermittent, and that normal urine output was unrelated to body mass. o_Oo_Oo_O

And he is regarded as one of the UK's top endos. Heaven help us. :bang-head:

So good luck, anyone in the UK wanting a correct diagnosis and prescription...you may need all you can get. :(
 
Leopardtail

Leopardtail

Senior Member
Messages
1,151
Location
England
MeSci said:
Maybe your doctor is better than the ones I have had. I provided detailed fluid charts (intake and output), and underwent the standard fluid deprivation test, and had a Synacthen test, but these will not pick up idiosyncratic ME-type/partial/mixed-type diuresis/polyuria or ME-type endrocrine abnormalities. They therefore concluded that I was drinking too much water, ignoring my denials and expert info supplied.

At one point a GP stopped my desmopressin prescription without warning, discussion or explanation. I just turned up at the pharmacy to collect it and it wasn't there. When I phoned the doctor to ask why, I was treated with aggression and incorrect claims about what was and wasn't in my medical records (which I discovered later after finally getting a copy of them, which was like trying to get blood out of a stone).

I have ended up having to buy some of my desmopressin online or return to the nightmare from which it had released me. I would never have considered buying drugs online before that, partly due to all the horror stories in the media and partly due to already living in poverty due to ME.

Even the endocrinologist insisted that one had to be born with DI (!), it could not be partial or intermittent, and that normal urine output was unrelated to body mass. o_Oo_Oo_O

And he is regarded as one of the UK's top endos. Heaven help us. :bang-head:

So good luck, anyone in the UK wanting a correct diagnosis and prescription...you may need all you can get. :(
Click to expand...

When I first got action was passing 14 litres / day and had to virtually write a Masters paper and get four referrals before tests were done. It was more harassing him into submission.

Most British endos are diabetic specialists doing very small amounts of endocrinology.
 
CFS_for_19_years

CFS_for_19_years

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2,396
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The first diseases that come to mind for polyuria, nocturia and polydipsia are kidney disease, diabetes and adrenal insufficiency. Your doctor can order blood tests to check for kidney disease and diabetes. Most doctors are kind of ho-hum about adrenal insufficiency, but a good lecture about adrenal gland health is here:

http://www.holtorfmed.com/live/

As of today, the lecture that is loaded is about the adrenal glands. I don't know how long it will be posted. I watched it last night and was thoroughly impressed.

I'm a retired medical technologist with a B.S. in Medical Technology, former medical laboratory manager, if that gives you any confidence in the opinions I've expressed.
 
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