POLL: Has anyone recovered with the Gupta Program?

[Wishful]

To the right of the “Watch” menu is a box with three dots and a down arrow—click there and a menu opens.

I still can't find a watch menu. I even switched computers and browsers in case I had something turned off or unavailable. Are you sure it isn't a moderators only option?

 

[Sushi]

I still can't find a watch menu. I even switched computers and browsers in case I had something turned off or unavailable. Are you sure it isn't a moderators only option?

 

[Wishful]

Nope, my screen does not show the menu next to the 'watch' box. Do any regular members see that menu?

 

[Wishful]

Are you sure it isn't a moderators only option?

As a brand new moderator-in-training, the three-dot menu has suddenly appeared! I was now able to edit the title of my cumin thread (it's cyminum, not cynimum).

So, regular members don't get the option of editing their own titles. They'll have to ask a moderator to do it.

 

[Dufresne]

I also meditate and I can see that some types of meditation instructions could do this. Other types of meditation are just being mindful and aware of your thoughts--not trying to do something about them. Have you tried approaches like this, combined with intentional breathing?

Actually it's mindfulness I have a problem with. It does something to the energy in my brain and this can't be sustained. It may well be doing house cleaning of some sort, but the excitation produces a worsening in my condition. From my experimentation with norepinephrine re-uptake inhibitors I'd say that it's NE that is partly to blame for this paradoxical effect.

I've been doing Gupta's main exercise and it seems to be calming my wiredness quite well. I believe it's working on this norepinephrine system. I had a longstanding NRI-induced sexual side-effect lift within a couple weeks of starting Gupta. I'd had this problem for a few years. Just about all cleared up. So I've no doubt the main Gupta technique lowers stress hormones. Something I'd not been able to manage with any other relaxation/meditation approach. I'm also seeing immune strengthening effects resulting from this.

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

Do any regular members see that menu?

Yes, altho there's nothing that says 'Menu'. And you can only see it on a thread that you, personally, have opened. Click on the three horizontal dots at the far right of any thread you've opened, and you'll see the "edit" command. Click on that, and the title of the thread you've opened/posted will appear in a small edit box .... make whatever changes you want, then click save.

Done.

If you want to edit the text in a thread you've posted, I think the rules are about the same as editing anything you;ve posted: you have a certain period of time during which you can go back and change whatever, after that (usually a week) you'll need the help of a mod.

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

I don't think they have the answer for ME/CFS and I don't think their testimonials mean a lot.

Agree, and agree.

I think the reason that these flucking vultures (I include the Lightning Process, which in several ways is very similar to the Gupta Program) aim their bullshite at the ME/CFS population is because no one understands this illness, there's absolutely no real treatment for it that isn't experimental and, at least as far as the full population of patients goes, unproven, and therefore, no one can prove that you're selling ghost breath. And worse, killing hope and what little trust patients, after being medically gaslighted repeatedly, still cling to.

I did a lot better when I did my own research and experimentation and asked a lot of questions.

ABSOLUTELY !!!! At the very least, you'll be making your own mistaks and learning from the, rather than making someone else's and learning nothing that can help you craft your next approach to healing, or improving. Because ....:

No one right now has the answer for ME/CFS

When you say the Gupta program made you crash, can you pinpoint what aspect of it you think was responsible?

The fact that the "program" is unproven, unprovable, unworkable by anyone with moderate to severe ME, and total crepe?

There was a diagram of some sort on the floor and I was supposed to walk around it, I can't remember very well, and something about saying "stop" AND ignoring how I felt.

Wow. that TOTALLY sounds like The Lightening Process ....

If a group of whales is a "pod" and a group of crows is a "murder", what do you call a group of opportunistic, emotionally extortive vultures ( "....If it didnt work for you, it's your fault, not the program's. The program is perfect, YOU are flawed...")? A "strangle"? A "wretchedness"? A "slime trail"? .... open to suggestions here ....

Every time I read about one of these programs, and the desperate, fear and pain wracked ME sufferers who are praying for help from them, I get a pyroclastic flood of anger and depression .....

THERE ARE NO EASY ANSWERS!!! You can't meditate a shattered leg back to wholeness, you can't get rid of cancer with happy thoughts, you can't cure a deeply misunderstood illness with meditation and denial. Worse, denial that forces you to push yourself into severe PEM and a possibly permanent worsening of your condition.

You just can't.

 

[Rufous McKinney]

I watched this interview and discussion yesterday.

I decided to no longer believe I am ill. I'll let everyone here, know how that goes.......

 

[lenora]

Hmmmm.....I listened to the above video, and have to admit that I have always believed this to be a mind/body problem. Do not be misled....I'm not saying the mind only. No, quite the opposite. It begings with say a viral problem, compounded by not letting ourselves heal well enough. This is almost expected in our society....if you want money or a job, return to work within one week.

Unfortunately, that's not often enough and there are many reasons for an a lengthy illness. Say, another virus, resurgence of an old one, malnutrition because we don't/can't eat properly....we then become afraid of the outcome. Sometimes there is no getting better because it simply can't be done.

I've "comeback" from illness a number of times, but now I'm old and it just isn't going to happen....most likely, as least. If we do some basic things each day it can help the body recover because as Dr. Gupta says, the brain is being retrained. This takes time, it doesn't happen overnight nor should it.

Yes, there are always symptoms, some worse than others, but the best we can do is slowly ignore them. Perhaps it's because of my age that I know this can be done, but not expecting an immediate positive outcome.

I just came from seeing my internist. I'm going to take some of my meds every other day and we'll see where that leads us. You do need a Dr. who will cooperate and believes this is real. I'd rather have medical care where the Dr. acknoweldges that he/she doesn't know the answer BUT they're willing to help in any way they can. I have far more respect for that type of physician than one who knows all things and just throws meds at me.

I'll let you know how I fare.....I don't expect it to be easy and your good wishes would help. Let me add this: Many people on here are severely ill...I'm not talking about them. As far as I know, they may have been given the wrong diagnosis to begin with. In my case, I know what the problems are and I'm willing to try to at least lessen the impact. Thanks! Yours, Lenora

 

[shakyradical]

I am using the Gupta programme. and tbh I use it way less than I could benefit from but it does help.

the binary of have you recovered with it or not is perhaps not the most useful framing.

if I even get 30% improvement from something, it's well, well worth it for me.

I do think if I use the tech every time I worry, as suggested, it will have a major impact.

I think of even the autonomic conditioning that is spoke of in one of gez medingers vids and it is largely training ourself not to freak out around energy spending.
that's not the whole story (obvi) but I know for sure it is part of it.

I was once a competitive athlete and after 3 years I'm so nervous about spending energy I can get anxious and worried if I do something I think could be too much.
that process drains me.

 

[RupertBear]

The part where they said ignore symptoms. This was back in 2007. There was a diagram of some sort on the floor and I was supposed to walk around it, I can't remember very well, and something about saying "stop" AND ignoring how I felt. So when I did all the things they told me to do and I could feel myself getting tired, I forced myself to ignore how I felt and I crashed of course. I literally could not do what they told me to do without crashing.

I do meditate on my own - I've been doing it for many years and it doesn't have the paradoxical effect it has on you - that's unfortunate that it's problematic for you!

One other thing you might try to calm your system down is box (or 4-sided) breathing. It is amazingly effective. It's used by police and Navy seals and firefighters, people in high-stress positions. It's also used by people like me too! Box breathing: How to do it, benefits, and tips (medicalnewstoday.com) It helps put me back to -sleep in the middle of the night or if I just need to de-stress during the day, it's quite effective.

The instructions say to do the 4 steps to a count of 4 each, but I've found it to be more effective to do the inhale for a count of 4 or 5, and then the other 4 steps to about a count of 8 each.

One other technique is to inhale slowly (through your nose) to a count of 5 or so, and then exhale (again through the nose) slowly, for a count of 8 or so, and just repeat.

All of the exercises are done with your mouth closed.

I completely agree. What other condition is there where you would be told to ignore what your body is telling you? I view these 'therapies' with suspicion. If they work so well, why isn't the medical profession recommending them? It is taking advantage of vulnerable people. Some of the techniques might work for some people but they are probably techniques that you can access for free. This condition is far too complex for one 'therapy' to work for everyone.

 

[RupertBear]

Agree, and agree.

I think the reason that these flucking vultures (I include the Lightning Process, which in several ways is very similar to the Gupta Program) aim their bullshite at the ME/CFS population is because no one understands this illness, there's absolutely no real treatment for it that isn't experimental and, at least as far as the full population of patients goes, unproven, and therefore, no one can prove that you're selling ghost breath. And worse, killing hope and what little trust patients, after being medically gaslighted repeatedly, still cling to.

ABSOLUTELY !!!! At the very least, you'll be making your own mistaks and learning from the, rather than making someone else's and learning nothing that can help you craft your next approach to healing, or improving. Because ....:



The fact that the "program" is unproven, unprovable, unworkable by anyone with moderate to severe ME, and total crepe?

Wow. that TOTALLY sounds like The Lightening Process ....

If a group of whales is a "pod" and a group of crows is a "murder", what do you call a group of opportunistic, emotionally extortive vultures ( "....If it didnt work for you, it's your fault, not the program's. The program is perfect, YOU are flawed...")? A "strangle"? A "wretchedness"? A "slime trail"? .... open to suggestions here ....

Every time I read about one of these programs, and the desperate, fear and pain wracked ME sufferers who are praying for help from them, I get a pyroclastic flood of anger and depression .....

THERE ARE NO EASY ANSWERS!!! You can't meditate a shattered leg back to wholeness, you can't get rid of cancer with happy thoughts, you can't cure a deeply misunderstood illness with meditation and denial. Worse, denial that forces you to push yourself into severe PEM and a possibly permanent worsening of your condition.

You just can't.

Well said. I completely agree with you.

 

[shakyradical]

I completely agree. What other condition is there where you would be told to ignore what your body is telling you? I view these 'therapies' with suspicion. If they work so well, why isn't the medical profession recommending them? It is taking advantage of vulnerable people. Some of the techniques might work for some people but they are probably techniques that you can access for free. This condition is far too complex for one 'therapy' to work for everyone.

not sure what it looked like in 2007 but in 2023 they are very clear about pacing and not ignoring symptoms.
they say if you can't do the movement on the floor mat, just do it in your imagination.

not discounting anyones experience just that it's not like that today.

 

[shakyradical]

The part where they said ignore symptoms. This was back in 2007. There was a diagram of some sort on the floor and I was supposed to walk around it, I can't remember very well, and something about saying "stop" AND ignoring how I felt. So when I did all the things they told me to do and I could feel myself getting tired, I forced myself to ignore how I felt and I crashed of course. I literally could not do what they told me to do without crashing.

I do meditate on my own - I've been doing it for many years and it doesn't have the paradoxical effect it has on you - that's unfortunate that it's problematic for you!

One other thing you might try to calm your system down is box (or 4-sided) breathing. It is amazingly effective. It's used by police and Navy seals and firefighters, people in high-stress positions. It's also used by people like me too! Box breathing: How to do it, benefits, and tips (medicalnewstoday.com) It helps put me back to -sleep in the middle of the night or if I just need to de-stress during the day, it's quite effective.

The instructions say to do the 4 steps to a count of 4 each, but I've found it to be more effective to do the inhale for a count of 4 or 5, and then the other 4 steps to about a count of 8 each.

One other technique is to inhale slowly (through your nose) to a count of 5 or so, and then exhale (again through the nose) slowly, for a count of 8 or so, and just repeat.

All of the exercises are done with your mouth closed.

sorry that was your experience.

I only started 2 years ago with Gupta, and they are very clear on listening to your body.
perhaps they have fine tuned their instructions since then.

 

[cfs since 1998]

Gupta is a waste of time, please don't spend your money on this scam. His hypothesis is built upon Simon Wesley's psychobabel.

I can promise you that ME/CFS is not caused by false illness beliefs, avoidance behavior, or anxiety about symptoms.

 

[godlovesatrier]

Someone mentions Gupta in corts new dark blood article. Interestingly he says it returned him to health in the early years of his disease but after his formal diagnosis it didn't work at all.

So makes you think that it must only work for those who are either mild to very mild or simply haven't got sick enough yet. Have heard other stories of people recovering within a year or two from ME. But quite possible they didn't reply have ME.

If the new protein they found is one of the main reasons we all suffer then maybe these people didn't produce that protein. So that's why some simple mindfulness worked. Meanwhile the rest of us have no chance becuase our bodies produce so much of the protein our mitos never function properly.