PLEASE HELP - Do Probiotics Methylate Mercury and other heavy metals?

[Dreambirdie]

Oh yeah, Cort's post reminds me that I wanted to add my own 2 about chlorella--
I personally can't tolerate it, and my naturopath eschews it due to its properties as a "counter-irritant."

Those of us with chronic irritation don't need to be adding more irritants...

Me too! Chlorella was nasty for me! IT caused severe tongue swelling and agitation. If that's not COUNTER-IRRITATING, then I don't know what is.

Many people are allergic to it. And there are not many really clean toxin-free sources. I would not recommend it.

 

[leela]

As for DMSA and EDTA, they both just freak the hell out of me. My best TCM practitioner in L.A., who works with 100 patients/week on some of these same issues (heavy metals, CFS, MCS), urges all his hyper-sensitive patients to avoid these kind of strong chelators. He has seen people end up in the hospital with kidney and liver damage from them, and some who even became temporarily paralyzed. I would NOT risk that kind of thing, and would encourage DAn to avoid them at all costs. Just my two cents, but it is DEFINITELY better to be safe than sorry.

Yes, this is why I recommended working with a reliable clinic that specializes in chelation. No one worth their salt (or their license) would start a person on these substances without thorough organ function testing. I am very sensitive, and it wasn't an easy or pleasant process, but we went slowly (every other week) and carefully (lots of moppers and mineral replenishment) and I got great results. I would definitely not recommend taking any of those big-guns chelators without professional guidance.

Dreambirdie, Id be happy to tell you more about the products you mentioned if you want to email or PM me.

 

[dannybex]

Dannybex,

I'm really really sorry to hear you've been feeling such crap. Hopefully some of the fine info you've gotten here will help. I think Wayne's foot baths are a *really* good idea. I would avoid taking clay internally or doing enemas too frequently, those can both cause further problems in my opinion when overdone.

I am concerned that your skin has been sheeting off for such a long time. Have you seen your practitioner for this? Combined with the severe anxiety, I fear that you are in a crisis phase that might require more targeted and intense action.

Thank you Leela for your kind words and your concern. Believe me, I've felt like I'm in crisis situation for years.

The shedding and peeling is a classic symptom of mercury toxicity. I wish I had read this 8-9 months ago, but can't go backwards. As I'm sure you know, as much as we want these metals out of our system NOW, it's unfortunately a very slow process...

The other possible factor is low vitamin A. I know that high "A" can also cause dry skin, but I have the tell-tale signs of deficiency -- follicular keratosis -- on my right thigh, so just about a week ago, bought some 'heavy-metal-free' cod liver oil. I've only taken a couple of 1/4 teaspoons so far. Plus, I need to increase my EFA's. (Edit: Also...my copper levels have always shown up as consistently low...copper helps w/collagen, skin, bones, circulation, etc......)

The other thing is the fact that I haven't taken very many showers this year. (Too much info?) But I crashed last Dec-March or so, so couldn't shower as much, and when I did start, that's when I noticed the peeling...probably around May or June. People then said it was because I wasn't showering enough...too much dead skin piling up. ???

Thanks for your input on the clay foot baths. I know I couldn't do the enema's. I tried them 2 years ago or so, and they were pretty difficult then. Now I'm just too weak.

As someone with lead levels so high they produced an exclamation of "Holy Crap!" from the clinic director, I thought I'd chime in with the things that help me when I'm particularly overloaded (even though our toxins are different.) There is a great (but pricey) product from EcoNugenics (Pectasol Chelation Complex) that is modified fruit pectin with alginate-- alginate appears to significantly reduce the amount of pectin needed for effective binding. (It is possible to get a significant discount when ordering a case through a person with any kind of practitioner license. I split a case with a practitioner friend.) This will chelate as well, but bind what it chelates effectively in my experience. The website has some compelling clinical trials regarding its effectiveness.

The other thing that helps me more than NAC, is actual glutathione, either in liposomal form, or transdermal cream from Lee Silsby. Both of these are kind of pricey too, unfortunately, but I slather the TD cream like crazy when I'm detoxing and it helps a lot. You need a doctor/naturopath to prescribe. These are the only forms that allegedly remain stable.

Sorry to hear YOU'VE been through the ringer, but encouraged by your good news too. My sister brought down some 'modified citrus pectin' yesterday. I took 3 caps about 3am when I woke up to 'relieve myself', and about 2-3 hours later started to get the feeling that my feet were going to cramp up hard -- something that hasn't happened in more than a week. Not sure of course if this was related to the citrus pectin, but it was the only thing I did differently. I don't seem to tolerate very much if any bitter/astringent/pungent herbs/foods -- too constricting, too drying for my body. According to TCM, citrus peel is very bitter. But again, it could've been a coincidence.

The transdermal glutathione sounds interesting. I don't know if I could afford it, but if you want to PM me with more info, I'd really appreciate it.

As for your question of oral DMSA, I absolutely could not tolerate it. Made me really really sick and nauseous; though a friend who is also chelating high lead levels is fine with it. I had great success bringing lead levels waaay down taking the pectasol daily and alternating IV EDTA and transdermal DMSA again from Lee Silsby. The TD DMSA makes you smell a bit sulfury, but you only use it weekends, then 11 days off.

There also exist suppository forms of both EDTA and DMSA. Easier to tolerate, I think, than orally if you have gut issues, but still, you will detox and need to keep taking your binders.

Anyhow, best of luck getting through this, and maybe turn a little of this sifting-of-info process over to a reliable practitioner? I know very well the kind of overwhelm--on so many levels--that makes it hard to discover the right plan of action when you already feel so sick and disoriented.

There is so much conflicting info on HM removal; when I finally handed it over (well partially) to my local clinic that does IV chelation, within four months I had gone from 175X the acceptable lead level to 25X. I still have a ways to go, but those are results to feel good about!!

Sending you hugs and more hugs,
~leela

Thank you Leela. You're so right -- so much conflicting info. As I mentioned earlier, I seemed to have no problem with ALA per the Cutler protocol a year and a half ago, so perhaps that will help again. But the consensus so far seems to be to just stop all the methylation supps and probiotics for now, and will keep up with the taurine, the clonazepam and a few other things -- along with high-dose digestive supps -- for now. I did take some activated charcoal middle of the night a few nights ago, and think that helped too. Would like to try the clay bath stuff...

Definitely overwhelming, but I'm hanging...in there. Waiting to hear back from my doc.

Thanks to all...will have to reply more later. Gotta make something to eat, then rest, then get to the grocery store before the weekend monsoon. And I DO mean monsoon!

 

[maryb]

Wayne I noticed in a post back you mentioned FIR saunas, do you have the blanket type, if so do you also have MCS, I'm thinking of getting one after all my fillings are out but am worried about being able to tolerate the smell of the plastic.

 

[Lisette]

Hi, Danny,

I don't frequent this site, so you may not remember me, unless you remember me from Prohealth, which I doubt. I just moved to the Seattle area from Tucson this past June. I really did very well where I am, in spite of an incredible amount of physical and mental stress from the move.

I was trying to be as careful not to overdo as much as I could, and I even started to feel a possible remission beginning. I didn't seem to have any sort of relapse for months afterward, and I even reduced one of my meds substantially and rode out the effects from that relatively easily.

But ever since the end of October, I have been feeling as wretched as I ever have. This climate is new for me, of course, but this is more than SAD. I've been taking small doses of Vitamin D at nearly everyone's advice who lives here. But I haven't megadosed or done anything to force a detox.

I also tried the simplified methylation briefly, while I was in my mold-stricken house, but found the B12 to be quite difficult-- it made me really anxious and nauseous to the point that I couldn't get a moment's peace or sleep. I had better luck with folate, alone, but I don't think that qualifies me as "doing the protocol".

I have often been confused as to whether I am feeling badly because of being in a bad place, or if I'm detoxing because I'm in a good place. I think that we are all free to consider whatever interests us in terms of our own health. If you're not certain about your environment, I don't know how someone else could be. We are well into the rainy season, after all. It feels very "primordial" right now, and I could believe in anything after seeing some of the exotic looking fungi up here.

What jumped out at me about your thread was your shedding skin issue. This does seem to point to a toxin issue. Whether its from internal mercury moving out, or from another source of toxin seems like the right direction to go in from this clue. I remember seeing a "mystery diagnosis" type of show that my daughter wanted me to watch with her. A woman fell acutely and deathly ill, and the only reason the doctor suspected that she had been poisoned in some way was that she was leaving a lot of hair on her pillow. Of course, I thought of how chemotherapy drugs cause obvious and dramatic hair loss, since they are so purposely toxic to us. I made a note to suspect a toxin if we start "losing" things or feel like we're about to.

From mere speculation, I wonder if the body is using Vitamin C up like crazy to deal with the toxin, and our connective tissue weakens without it. I personally seem to get brittle fingernails that stop growing and also small flaking blisters on my index fingers.

All the excretion systems seem to stop and I swell up. (Pretty picture, huh?) I think this is similar to what Joey was talking on his avoidance thread.

Well, I don't know if any of this helps you get anywhere, but at least you know of one more person in your area who is asking the same sorts of questions you are. I find that comforting, myself.

Best of luck,
Lisette

 

[leela]

I took 3 caps about 3am when I woke up to 'relieve myself', and about 2-3 hours later started to get the feeling that my feet were going to cramp up hard -- something that hasn't happened in more than a week. Not sure of course if this was related to the citrus pectin, but it was the only thing I did differently. I don't seem to tolerate very much if any bitter/astringent/pungent herbs/foods -- too constricting, too drying for my body. According to TCM, citrus peel is very bitter. But again, it could've been a coincidence.

Hey Dan,

I had a thought about this particular experience---since you woke in the middle of the night and took it then, you might not have drunk a whole lot of water? Since these are gooey binders (think gell-o) for the purpose of detox (think flushing) much water is required....whether or not the cramping was related, don't forget to drink your water!
And I'm talking out of my hat hat here, because I dehydrate myself alla time, due to not wanting to get up every fifteen minutes to pee. Guys have more options in this department...

 

[Dreambirdie]

HEAVY METALS DISPLACE MINERALS

THere are many articles online that include this point. Lead is known to displace calcium, arsenic can displace zinc and mercury can displace magnesium.... This leads me to think that the heavy metals that have been released into your system by the methylation protocol could be displacing some of the key electrolytes in your body, especially the magnesium, and that that could be causing both your cramps and the extreme tension that you've been experiencing lately.

"Magnesium is involved in more than 300 essential metabolic reactions, some of which are discussed (in the article) below:" (Linus Pauling Institute.)
http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/infocenter/minerals/magnesium/
http://www.ctds.info/5_13_magnesium.html

This makes a bit more sense to me than the cramps being caused by citrus pectin, because you had the cramps even before you took the pectin. The cramps have been an issue all along, and, as I understand it, they began with the methylation.

Leela's thought about the dehydration fits into this picture as well. Getting hydrated would include getting both the fluids AND the essential electrolyte minerals. It sounds like those have gotten very messed up by the detoxification you've been going, which doesn't surprise me. I have had very similar experiences when I have taken the B12 supps, and that's why I tend to avoid them for now.

Anyway, I hope that's helpful. It's the best I have to offer for now. Keep us posted on your progress.

 

[Lala]

Hello Danny,
I am sorry you feel so bad. I wonder how much charcoal did you take? I was helped only by very large amounts. I took whole spoon everyday and then saw difference. I think it can not harm, even if it does not help...

 

[dannybex]

Thanks again for all your input and replies. I have 10 minutes to reply, so I might have to cut this short.

DB -- yes, definitely agree. Heavy metals displace various minerals...that explains the twitching, cramping, anxiety, etc. That's why I'm so "glad" (haha) that this has finally shown it's true face (due to the methylation causing the dumping of metals) -- because I've always, always had difficulty with magnesium and calcium and other mineral supplements. I have had a little more luck perhaps now with transdermal mag, but the only calcium I can tolerate, at least right now is milk, unfortunately. But it's the only thing that will stop my strong leg/foot cramps. Chelating, etc., will I believe, eventually bring things back to (near) normal.

Leela -- excellent point about the water. I'm reluctant to try the MCP again, but may wait a week or so and do it.

And Lala -- I think I took three capsules, don't quite remember. But might try opening them up and doing that again, thanks.

Lisette -- Thanks so much for your reply, good to hear from you, and please try not to let this freaky winter weather we're having scare you away from Seattle. Because of "La Nina", we're supposed to have a wetter and colder winter -- we've had both, and it isn't even WINTER yet!

I think the way to tell if there's a "SAD" issue is how you feel instinctively when the sun suddenly is shining, especially during the past couple of months. I always kind of gravitate to the window...it makes me feel 'better' almost instantly. I agree about hesitations with both methylation and vitamin D supplementation -- but at least with "D", I don't think the negative reactions would be as strong. ???

I'm not sure if I saw the same program as you did, but I remember watching some program where a woman had this 'mystery' illness, got progressively sicker and sicker -- with definite skin problems -- I seem to recall a lot of blotchy red marks on her skin. And speaking of vitamin C -- it turned out that that was indeed her problem; she had been eating peanuts or peanut butter and one or two other things -- getting NO vitamin c at all, and restoring her levels brought her back to health.

In the past, I've not taken much C at all, in fact I still don't. I always made a 'tingling/numb' connection to the vitamin C I was taking. But perhaps that was wrong, and I need to at least try it again. I know I get some in foods, but haven't taken any supplementally lately. And it is recommended for mercury and heavy metal issues.

Off topic, but regarding the weather we've been having -- here's a video of the flooding the area has been having. My nephew is interview about half-way through the clip. He lives with his wife in her parents house, which her dad built to withstand flooding. The neighbors houses are all ruined, but their house has survived many, many floods with no damage:

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/111750389.html?tab=video

(you might want to turn down the volume at the beginning...there's a 15 second advertisement that seems 'loud' to me)

Thanks friends!

 

[Lala]

3 capsules are nothing. Try 12 at once and tomorrow evening or next morning you will see, if there is a change. Some people can tell difference even after few hours. Charcoal binds all poisons, endotoxins, metals and for me was superior to any other detox medcs. And it is natural and very safe. I think one can significantly improve only from taking it regularly. My pharmacist told me it is also good for intestinal candida, which I have never heard about before.

 

[Dreambirdie]

3 capsules are nothing. Try 12 at once and tomorrow evening or next morning you will see, if there is a change. Some people can tell difference even after few hours. Charcoal binds all poisons, endotoxins, metals and for me was superior to any other detox medcs. And it is natural and very safe. I think one can significantly improve only from taking it regularly. My pharmacist told me it is also good for intestinal candida, which I have never heard about before.

Hi Lala--

I have never tried the charcoal, but have heard about its effectiveness from others.

Are there any specific brands that you would recommend?

 

[Wayne]

3 capsules are nothing. Try 12 at once and tomorrow evening or next morning you will see, if there is a change. Some people can tell difference even after few hours. Charcoal binds all poisons, endotoxins, metals and for me was superior to any other detox medcs. And it is natural and very safe. I think one can significantly improve only from taking it regularly. My pharmacist told me it is also good for intestinal candida, which I have never heard about before.

Welcome to the forum Lela; I hope I don't have any problem confusing you with Leela. Actually, I think I'll do just fine.

Thanks for the suggestion on taking extra charcoal. I used to take one daily; then I upped it to two; then I upped it to two 2x/day; and thought maybe I shouldn't do more. What I was taking was seeming to somewhat relieve my chronic headaches. I think I'll try more, per your suggestion, and see if it makes a difference.

Wayne

ETA Just noticed you've been here since a year ago. Oh well, I guess I'm a year late with my welcome. Not the only thing I'm late for these days.

 

[leela]

I think I'll try more, per your suggestion, and see if it makes a difference.

Me too! I have headaches alla time!! Imagine if charcoal made them go away--oh happy day!

 

[Lala]

Dreambeardie: I am using local product, this one http://firma.dacom.cz/en/doplnky-stravy/carbofit . I do not know if it is available abroad, but you can buy activated charcoal in most of the health stores and I think it is not expensive.

Wayne: Thank you for your Welcome, though I am really not newcomer here. I only post rarely.
I was advised by my doctor to take 5 capsules 3x daily for 5 days. Then stop. It should clean and bind all dead bacteria, viruses, some yeast, toxins and other poisons. However I am taking lots of medcs, so I was not able to take it 3x times daily, it would bind my medcs also, so I take large amount just before going to sleep. It works as well.

I do not think activated charcoal can treat any disease, we still need to remove source of these toxins and poisons, but it was of great help for me when removing these sources. I was surprised, when my anxiety and depression lifted and pain in muscles disappeared during few hours. For big problems big amounts are needed.

Only problem witch activated charcoal can be, that it can cause constipation with large amounts at some people. So drinking enough water is wise.

 

[Dreambirdie]

Dreambeardie: I am using local product, this one http://firma.dacom.cz/en/doplnky-stravy/carbofit . I do not know if it is available abroad, but you can buy activated charcoal in most of the health stores and I think it is not expensive.

Wow! Czech Republic is not exactly around the corner... But shouldn't be a problem to find here.

I do not think activated charcoal can treat any disease, we still need to remove source of these toxins and poisons, but it was of great help for me when removing these sources. I was surprised, when my anxiety and depression lifted and pain in muscles disappeared during few hours. For big problems big amounts are needed.

Only problem witch activated charcoal can be, that it can cause constipation with large amounts at some people. So drinking enough water is wise.

This sounds great to me. I am eager to try it now and am going to pick up a bottle today.

Do you take it on an empty stomach?

 

[Lala]

Yes, I take it at least 2 hours after all medcs and usually also food. Best on empty stomach. Do not be too optimistic, please and let us know, if it was useful or not.

 

[markmc20001]

chelators and cramps(more experimental results)

Good info about charcoal and headaches, I'll recommend that to a friend to try.

Just wanted to give a point of reference about chelators. I have problems with chelators or anything that absorbs minerals giving me cramping in my gut. Actually I say "Gut" but I think it is my gallbladder or pancreaus is messed up because of a lack of minerals after chelating. It seems to have gone away slowly before though when supplementing with minerals. Both charcoal and chorella are the worst offenders for chelating and cramps in stomach. Bentonite Clay internally is bad too.(just learned that one the hard way)

The one chelator that I have taken for a couple years non-stop that hasn;t bothered me is alpha lipoic acid(I wasn't aware of Andrew Culter's protocl and the potential for re-destributing meatls when I started). I have taken one capsule, twice a day of 300mg ALA/600mg L carnitine mix from vitacost NSI brand. The one side effect I have had is making teeth sensitive. Other than that no troubles that I can think of right now. I always take minerals and especially biotin and plenty of fish oil to keep hair in good shape while taking Alpha lipoic acid. I alo do a modified Freddd protocol. Without minerals supplementation with the ALA/Carnitine and fish oil My hair gets dry.

I wasn;t taking the ALA per the CUlter protocol and have been lucky and stupid fortunately. Luckyily I haven't had a re-distribution problem from ALA that I know of. However, I've just taken a break after two years(becuase my vitamins it seems to have stopped working). I will probably start with the sustained release ALA when I start back up so I don't have to worry about the every three hours routine. I can tolerate high ammounts of B12 and also folate to which help. Still missiing something though.

Sorry to hear you are messed up Dan, I hope you can get back. Sounds like you are much worse off physically than me(which allows me room for error). You may be best off just trying to eat healthy if you can benefit from milk like you do. Brocolli is high in calcium and is good for your liver too boot.

Here is one link where some people were apparently having success with ALA. Not that I want yo uto try it, just pointing it out since you were interested at one time.

http://www.autismweb.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=22339

 

[Dreambirdie]

Interesting Mark--cuz ALA is one of the WORST supp's I've tried. My body really did not like it.
Just goes to show you how "one man's ceiling is another man's floor." (Paul Simon)

 

[dannybex]

Hello again...

Thanks again for everyone's input. I'm late in catching up, and after asking for this help, I'm finding that perhaps staying off the computer, or cutting back on it, is helping to keep me from tensing up too much. You know...worrying about whatever...just makes it worse.

But I appreciate everyone's input so much. I tried charcoal again a few nights back and upped it to about 6 capsules (it was dark!), and wasn't worse in the AM, so will try again tonight.

Mark: From what I've read in many places, yes, ALA needs to be taken in small doses, quite frequently for a few days (and 2 nights) and then one stops for a week or so. The sustained release ALA is problematic if one has heavy metal issues because it can dissolve or break down at different points during transit, so it's very unclear how much of an 'even' amount would be absorbed.

Also Mark, if you don't have heavy metal issues, ALA may be fine to take on a less frequent dosing schedule. I believe 'SallyBlossoms' has been taking it twice a day, along with l-carnitine, and it's helped her neuropathy quite a bit.

DB -- some people have to start with like 6 millgrams of ALA. When I tried it in Aug-Sept 09, when I was doing better overall, I started at 25 mgs, and did okay with it, but of course we're all different. I'm SO tempted to start it again, but think I'll wait at least a couple of days, see if things calm down further.

Sulfur and/or cysteine is apparently fine (although not a true chelator) if one has low cysteine levels, but mine were high on the NutrEval test. So last night I excluded as many sulfur foods from my dinner, and will see how it goes.

Thanks again friends -- it means a lot to me, and I hope others are finding some help in this thread too.

Twitchy Dan

 

[mojoey]

Hey Dan,

Sorry I have a lot of catching up on this thread. But just in case this has already been said, if you do take the high dose charcoal make sure to flush it out with magnesium. Wow I'm glad you did well with the ALA... I hear a lot of patients do not, but the anal scheduling may have a lot to do with that.

Will try to catch up before I say anymore