Phage Borrelia qPCR - is false positive possible?

[newbie_85]

I received results from Phage Borrelia qPCR from RedLabs and it says Borrelia Miyamotoi positive. From what I heard phage test is a direct proof of active infections while ELISA, Western Blot, PCRs can provide false negative or positive.

I am wondering if with phage test false positive is also possible or not?

It is strange that after almost 10 years of feeling bad and while all other tests haven't detected borrelia this one finally detected it. Is it possible that the borrelia stayed active for 10 years or is maybe more possible that I just got it recently?

 

[Markus83]

I am wondering if with phage test false positive is also possible or not?

Of course it's possible. You could try two weeks of doxycycline if you haven't already. Besides borrelia it works for many CFS-associated bugs (chlamydia, mykoplasma, bartonella). If you don't feel better within two weeks I wouldn't take antibiotics any further.

 

[newbie_85]

Sorry to ask but are you familiar with this specific test or are you just making a guess? Are false positive for this specific test very rare, let's say less than 1% or much more?

Isn't 2 weeks a short period to see if you feel better? I read that for some people with late stage lyme diseases (after 10 years) it took years to get better.

 

[Cipher]

I am wondering if with phage test false positive is also possible or not?

I would ask RedLabs
1. What percentage of healthy controls test positive with this analysis method?
2. How many healthy controls were included in the evaluation?

If they can't answer, then I wouldn't trust the results personally unless some sort of validating data of the test emerges.

 

[msf]

Of course it's possible. You could try two weeks of doxycycline if you haven't already. Besides borrelia it works for many CFS-associated bugs (chlamydia, mykoplasma, bartonella). If you don't feel better within two weeks I wouldn't take antibiotics any further.

This sounds a lot like medical advice, rather than just suggesting someone try a treatment (and generally the treatments people suggest on here are not prescription drugs). It is also very controversial medical advice, so I would hope that you are a LLMD, or at the very least a doctor. It may seem like a small distiniction, but telling someone what a medical organization such as ILADS prescribes for a suspected condition and telling them what you, as presumably a non-doctor, would prescribe for their condition (even if this the same) is quite different. Hopefully most people upon receiving this advice would ask themselves, why am I taking medical advice from an anonymyous poster on a online forum? Unfortunately, some people are more credulous than others, and illnesses like ME also make people desperate, so this kind of advice may be harmful in the case of particular individuals.

 

[Markus83]

@newbie_85 I'm not familiar with this test but every test can have false positives. And when I read how many patients here got tested positive for B. miyamotoi by KDM/Red Labs, I am very skeptic.

@msf My intent was not to give a medical advice to take antibiotics. I wanted to protect @newbie_85 not to take long term antibiotics so I adviced not to take abx longer than 2 weeks without improvement. Besides that, doxycycline is a prescription drug so you need a doctor to prescribe it anyway. What I wanted to say: Be careful with so called lyme doctors.

 

[newbie_85]

@Markus83 from what I read this is a new test, KMD only started using it recently. Yes I also read about that many patients got tested positive for B. miyamotoi, but I think these stories were from years ago when old tests were used (antibody or bacterial DNA-based). Many things have changed since then and Phage Borrelia test is making a real difference. From what I read yesterday night it is highly unlikely it will show false positive which we can not say for antibody or bacterial DNA-based tests.

Last night I read that it is nearing 100% accurate, at >80% sensitivity to detecting not just the presence of Borrelia burgdorferi, but all of the 20 types of Borrelia. But again, I couldn't find any official information what is percentage of false positives so I still would love to hear some answers here about it.

 

[Markus83]

I would ask RedLabs
1. What percentage of healthy controls test positive with this analysis method?
2. How many healthy controls were included in the evaluation?

That's a good start, but we are not healthy. It's often the case that tests perform good on healthy controls and then give false positives on controls with other diseases.

I personally would not trust the test until validation data is published in a peer review journal. Most alternative tests for chronic lyme are miserable. But as I said, a trial with two weeks of doxycycline can be considered if your CFS-doctor thinks it's ok. For example, Charite/Berlin recommends minocycline as a trial & error therapy for CFS.

 

[msf]

@newbie_85 I'm not familiar with this test but every test can have false positives. And when I read how many patients here got tested positive for B. miyamotoi by KDM/Red Labs, I am very skeptic.

@msf My intent was not to give a medical advice to take antibiotics. I wanted to protect @newbie_85 not to take long term antibiotics so I adviced not to take abx longer than 2 weeks without improvement. Besides that, doxycycline is a prescription drug so you need a doctor to prescribe it anyway. What I wanted to say: Be careful with so called lyme doctors.

Again, saying 'do not take antibiotics for longer than 2 weeks without improvement' constitutes medical advice. If you had posted a study that suggests the same course of action that would be fine, and much more constructive than just stating your opinion, even if you were a doctor.

 

[ljimbo423]

Rule 5: No medical advice

Members may offer their opinion or make suggestions but they may not tell members what they must or should do.

Link to forum rules

 

[Markus83]

Okay, maybe the problem is that english is not my native language, but of course I stated just my opinion as a not-MD. This is not an advice what @newbie_85 should do, even lesser must do. Of course he needs a doctor who personally knows him to verify the lab results, exclude other causes for his symptoms, check if there are contraindications for medication, etc. I hope this is clear enough.

To my knowledge there is no study on treating B. miyamotoi, but treatment for "normal" lyme disease is usually 2-3 weeks which you can read in every mainstream treatment guideline or journal article. I'm skeptic about long term antibiotics, at least if you don't see improvements after a few weeks.

 

[ljimbo423]

Okay, maybe the problem is that english is not my native language, but of course I stated just my opinion as a not-MD. This is not an advice what @newbie_85 should do, even lesser must do.

I don't see any problem with your english at all. I read your posts to "newbie_85" and understood them to be your opinion. That's why I posted "rule #5". To clarify that your posts were not medical advice but your opinion. Sorry that I didn't make that clear when I posted "rule #5".

 

[msf]

I guess in the end it's all interpretation. The rules say you can't 'urge' someone to do something, so unless they actually say 'I urge you to...' it is going to come down to how the tone of the statement is interpreted, which of course is affected by whether someone is a native speaker of a language etc.

 

[newbie_85]

I spoke with Prof. Dr. De Meirleir and he says there are not false positive with this test if I understood him correct. My friend who is also thinking to take this test asked Red Labs if there are any false positives and they also wrote him that they don't have any false positives because they perform a double check on them.

 

[Aubry]

They can claim what they want. But unless there are peer reviewed studies (with healthy controls) I don't believe this test. I test positive/negative on this test like lottery. And antibiotics never improved me either.

 

[newbie_85]

They can claim what they want. But unless there are peer reviewed studies (with healthy controls) I don't believe this test. I test positive/negative on this test like lottery. And antibiotics never improved me either.

You tested using this test more than once and it showed you once positive and once negative, do I understand correctly?

 

[max_yazhbin]

I received results from Phage Borrelia qPCR from RedLabs and it says Borrelia Miyamotoi positive. From what I heard phage test is a direct proof of active infections while ELISA, Western Blot, PCRs can provide false negative or positive.

I am wondering if with phage test false positive is also possible or not?

It is strange that after almost 10 years of feeling bad and while all other tests haven't detected borrelia this one finally detected it. Is it possible that the borrelia stayed active for 10 years or is maybe more possible that I just got it recently?

I don't know anything about this particular test, but if you are having the symptoms of lyme disease, please checkout my article on my experience with the illness, and let me know if it is useful: https://forums.phoenixrising.me/threads/my-experience-with-lyme-disease.83923/