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Persistence of RNA viruses is deadly real

Pyrrhus

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Wow. :wide-eyed:

There really are quite a few relevant gems in this paper:

NEW PAPER ON LONG COVID:

Long COVID or Post-acute Sequelae of COVID-19 (PASC): An Overview of Biological Factors That May Contribute to Persistent Symptoms (Proal and van Elzakker, 2021)
https://forums.phoenixrising.me/thr...te-to-persistent-symptoms-polybio-2021.84761/

Here are a few selected quotes from this excellent paper:
SARS-CoV-2 is a positive-sense single-stranded RNA virus (V’kovski et al., 2021). It is one of seven coronaviruses capable of infecting humans (Corman et al., 2018). Compared with other coronaviruses (e.g., HCoV-NL63, HCoV-229E, and HCoV-OC43) that are pathogenic to humans but generally drive only mild clinical symptoms, SARS-CoV-2 more closely resembles MERS-CoV or SARS-CoV (sometimes called SARS-CoV-1) in that it is capable of causing severe disease (Zhu et al., 2020).
[...]
Like all pathogens, SARS-CoV-2 employs a number of mechanisms to disable and evade the host immune response (Lucas et al., 2001; Bowie and Unterholzner, 2008; Taefehshokr et al., 2020). These include the ability to replicate within double-membrane vesicles that are not detected by host pathogen pattern recognition receptors (Taefehshokr et al., 2020). SARS-CoV-2 also dysregulates the host interferon response (Ribero et al., 2020). Interferons are cytokines secreted by host cells in response to viral infection. They bind to cell surface receptors and act as transcription factors, regulating the expression of hundreds of genes whose protein products target viruses at many levels (Acharya et al., 2020). SARS-CoV-2 expresses at least 10 proteins that allow it to either counteract the induction or escape the antiviral activity of interferons (Ribero et al., 2020), allowing the virus to better survive by rendering the host innate immune response inefficient.
[...]
Autopsy, animal, and organoid model studies show that, like SARS-CoV, SARS-CoV-2 is able to reach and infect cells of the CNS, infect neurons, and produce neuroinflammation (Matschke et al., 2020; Song et al., 2020; Song et al., 2021). Indeed, SARS-CoV-2 may be capable of transport up and down nerves and neuronal axons (Lima et al., 2020; Rangon et al., 2020; Song et al., 2020; Karuppan et al., 2021).
[...]
A growing number of studies show that some patients infected with SARS-CoV-2 do not successfully clear the virus over long periods of time (Liotti et al., 2020; Sun et al., 2020; Vibholm et al., 2021). In such studies, confirmation of SARS-CoV-2 in patient samples is generally assessed via identification of viral RNA and/or proteins. While identification of SARS-CoV-2 RNA could technically represent “inert” RNA, the possibility is unlikely because inert RNA in the human body is rapidly degraded (Houseley and Tollervey, 2009; Fabre et al., 2014). Nearly every human cell type, and human tears, saliva, mucus, perspiration, and extracellular spaces express RNAase enzymes that rapidly degrade inert RNA (Sorrentino, 2010; Gupta et al., 2013).
[...]
Persistence of SARS-CoV-2 in some patients with [Long Covid] symptoms is not unexpected. The literature is replete with examples of single-stranded RNA virus persistence, spanning decades of research on samples obtained from living human patients, autopsy studies, and animal studies (Viola et al., 1978; Riddell et al., 2007; Doi et al., 2016; Randall and Griffin, 2017; Ireland et al., 2020). Persistence of single-stranded RNA viruses in the central nervous system has been documented on multiple occasions. In a 1986 paper on the topic, Kristensson and Norrby explain that “Although it would seem difficult for RNA viruses to persist in the brain under conditions of normal immune defense mechanisms, representatives of at least seven of the established families of RNA viruses have been shown capable of causing persistent infections under these conditions” (Kristensson and Norrby, 1986).
[...]
Dozens of studies show coronaviruses capable of persistence, with some coronaviruses tied to chronic disease development (Arbour et al., 1999; Chan et al., 2004). One study found that in primates infected with two different coronaviruses, the viruses persisted, replicated, and disseminated in the central nervous system, leading to demyelination in the brain (Murray et al., 1992b). Coronavirus RNA and/or antigen have also been found in human multiple sclerosis (MS) brains examined at autopsy, including in both plaque and non-plaque areas of brainstem, cortex, and spinal cord samples (Murray et al., 1992a).
[...]
A number of teams have identified enteroviruses and their proteins in tissue samples obtained from patients with ME/CFS or ME/CFS-like symptoms (Yousef et al., 1988; Dowsett et al., 1990; Chia et al., 2010; Chia et al., 2015). For example, Chia and Chia found enterovirus VP1 protein and RNA in stomach biopsy specimens obtained from 165 ME/CFS patients with chronic abdominal complaints. 82% of ME/CFS specimens stained positive for enterovirus VP1 protein, compared to 20% of control specimens (Chia and Chia, 2008) (Figure 2). A non-cytolytic form of enteroviral infection was cultured from 5 ME/CFS specimens. Positive staining was found in repeat stomach biopsy specimens taken from 6 ME/CFS patients at the onset of symptoms and again 2–8 years later.

Enteroviruses have also been found in ME/CFS brain and muscle tissue (Cunningham et al., 1991; Gow et al., 1991; Richardson, 2001). For example, McGarry et al. (1994) examined the central nervous system of a woman with ME/CFS who died by suicide for the presence of enteroviruses. Positive PCR sequences with similarity to coxsackievirus B3 were identified in brain samples from the hypothalamus and brainstem, and also in muscle and heart samples. No enteroviral sequences were identified in any tissue obtained from four control subjects.
[...]
It is well understood that humans accumulate persistent viruses over the course of a lifetime. These viruses generally persist in dormant, latent, or non-cytolytic forms, but may reactivate under conditions of stress or immunosuppression. Indeed, people regarded as healthy have been shown to harbor a wide range of persistent viruses in blood, saliva (Wylie et al., 2014), or tissue that are capable of activation under such conditions (Virgin et al., 2009).
[...]
Acknowledgments
Thank you to supporters of PolyBio Research Foundation.
 
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Pyrrhus

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Here are some related discussions about possible SARS-CoV-2 coronavirus persistence in the intestines, in the endothelial cells lining blood vessels, in the brain, in the testicles, and in immunocompromised people:

Persistent coronaviral particles in the gut
https://forums.phoenixrising.me/threads/persistent-viral-particles-in-the-gut.84272/

Covid 19 persistence for over a year - confirmed case in immunocompromised patient
https://forums.phoenixrising.me/thr...rmed-case-in-immunocompromised-patient.85952/

Neuroinflammation in Long Covid
https://forums.phoenixrising.me/threads/neuroinflammation-in-long-covid.81396/page-2#post-2321167

Persistence of SARS-CoV-2 Spike Protein in Long Covid up to 15 Months Post-Infection (Patterson et al., 2022)
https://forums.phoenixrising.me/thr...hs-post-infection-patterson-et-al-2022.86657/

Possibility of coronaviral persistence in testicles
https://forums.phoenixrising.me/thr...cells-in-human-testes-costa-et-al-2022.86946/

EDIT: Added new discussions
 
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Pyrrhus

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All this reminds me of a small talk I gave at U.C. Berkeley back in 2013.

I was asked to speak on West Nile Virus, so I talked about how many people infected with West Nile Virus went on to have persistent, fluctuating, exertion-induced neurological symptoms for years after infection.
I just read this:

Evaluation of Prolonged Fatigue Post–West Nile Virus Infection and Association of Fatigue with Elevated Antiviral and Proinflammatory Cytokines (Garcia et al., 2014)
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4150370/


...And just for completeness, here's a 2015 review article that attempts to summarize the long-term effects of West Nile Virus infection:

Long-term sequelae of West Nile virus-related illness: a systematic review (Patel et al., 2015)
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(15)00134-6/fulltext


Excerpt:
We systematically reviewed the clinical outlook of West Nile virus (WNV)-related illness in North America and western Europe. As of March, 2015, more than 45 000 cases of WNV-related illness have been reported in North America. Unlike acute morbidity and mortality, the long-term physical, cognitive, and functional sequelae associated with WNV-related illness are not well characterised.

An understanding of WNV-related sequelae and their prognostic factors can support physicians with early diagnosis and tertiary prevention efforts. We searched Ovid Medline, Embase, Scopus, and Environment Complete for studies published between 1999 and 2015. We included 67 studies in our Review.

Although muscle weakness, memory loss, and difficulties with activities of daily living were among the most common physical, cognitive, and functional sequelae, respectively, some population groups were reported to be at greater risk of severe neurological disease or death (ie, older men with underlying illnesses such as cardiovascular disease or cancer).

A high level of heterogeneity was reported among studies included in this Review, suggesting a need for consistent methods for collecting data and reporting findings. Further, more than half of the studies reporting sequelae relied exclusively on subjective assessment and only two studies used matched control groups. Therefore, opportunities exist for more robust primary studies in future research.
 

Pyrrhus

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There is currently a new outbreak of Ebola virus in Guinea, in West Africa, and the journal Science published this article:

New Ebola outbreak likely sparked by a person infected 5 years ago
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/202...ak-likely-sparked-person-infected-5-years-ago

Now published in Nature:

Resurgence of Ebola virus in 2021 in Guinea suggests a new paradigm for outbreaks (Keita et al., 2021)
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-021-03901-9

Excerpt:
Keita et al 2021 said:
Seven years after the declaration of the first epidemic of Ebola virus disease in Guinea, the country faced a new outbreak—between 14 February and 19 June 2021—near the epicentre of the previous epidemic. Here we use next-generation sequencing to generate complete or near-complete genomes of Zaire ebolavirus from samples obtained from 12 different patients.

These genomes form a well-supported phylogenetic cluster with genomes from the previous outbreak, which indicates that the new outbreak was not the result of a new spillover event from an animal reservoir. The 2021 lineage shows considerably lower divergence than would be expected during sustained human-to-human transmission, which suggests a persistent infection with reduced replication or a period of latency.

The resurgence of Zaire ebolavirus from humans five years after the end of the previous outbreak of Ebola virus disease reinforces the need for long-term medical and social care for patients who survive the disease, to reduce the risk of re-emergence and to prevent further stigmatization.


Related article:

Resurgence of Ebola Virus Disease in Guinea Linked to a Survivor With Virus Persistence in Seminal Fluid for More Than 500 Days (Diallo et al., 2016)
https://academic.oup.com/cid/article/63/10/1353/2452977
 

sometexan84

Senior Member
Messages
1,235
Now published in Nature:

Resurgence of Ebola virus in 2021 in Guinea suggests a new paradigm for outbreaks (Keita et al., 2021)
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-021-03901-9

Excerpt:



Related article:

Resurgence of Ebola Virus Disease in Guinea Linked to a Survivor With Virus Persistence in Seminal Fluid for More Than 500 Days (Diallo et al., 2016)
https://academic.oup.com/cid/article/63/10/1353/2452977
Any persistent RNA virus that specifically tries to inhibit IFN Lambda production is suspect, and that includes Ebola.

In the case of Ebola, apparently it's the VP24 viral protein that blocks the IFNλ1.

This is why Peginterferon Lambda works on these!
https://forums.phoenixrising.me/threads/we-can-get-peginterferon-lambda-now.85475/

Ebola and Type III Interferon (Lambda)....

Type III Interferons in Viral Infection and Antiviral Immunity

Ebolavirus protein VP24 interferes with innate immune responses by inhibiting interferon-λ1 gene expression
 

Pyrrhus

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godlovesatrier

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I've just been reading an article that is discussing vaccine technology in the UK. Apparently there's now zero interest in funding vaccines for existent and deadly pathogens. Covid19 was really quite pathetic in terms of it's lethality and yet look at the damage it did. Even with the incubation periods being short for most pathogens with high mortality rates, the risk is very real.

In the article it discussed how they are unable to get funding for any vaccines for existing yet deadly pathogens, lessons are not being learnt and how governments are turning a blind eye. Hardly surprising though when money is central to everything and most governments just poured out billions to keep their countries going and it will take ten years to pay down.

Can't find the link currently, I am sure I saw it on the Guardian earlier.
 

Pyrrhus

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New study on Ebola virus persistence in the brain:

Ebola virus persistence and disease recrudescence in the brains of antibody-treated nonhuman primate survivors (Liu et al., 2022)
https://doi.org/10.1126/scitranslmed.abi5229

Main points:
  • Ebola virus persists in the brain of monkeys that survived acute disease with monoclonal antibody–based treatment.
  • Viral persistence can lead to relapses, including severe inflammation in the brain and death.
  • The virus appeared to persist within macrophages.

Excerpt:
Liu et al. 2022 said:
Ebola virus: Hiding in plain sight
[...]
Effective therapeutics have been developed against acute Ebola virus disease (EVD) in both humans and experimentally infected nonhuman primates. However, the risk of viral persistence and associated disease recrudescence in survivors receiving these therapeutics remains unclear.

In contrast to rhesus macaques that survived Ebola virus (EBOV) exposure in the absence of treatment, we discovered that EBOV, despite being cleared from all other organs, persisted in the brain ventricular system of rhesus macaque survivors that had received monoclonal antibody (mAb) treatment.

In mAb-treated macaque survivors, EBOV persisted in macrophages infiltrating the brain ventricular system, including the choroid plexuses. This macrophage infiltration was accompanied by severe tissue damage, including ventriculitis, choroid plexitis, and meningoencephalitis. Specifically, choroid plexus endothelium-derived EBOV infection led to viral persistence in the macaque brain ventricular system. This resulted in apoptosis of ependymal cells, which constitute the blood–cerebrospinal fluid barrier of the choroid plexuses.

Fatal brain-confined recrudescence of EBOV infection manifested as severe inflammation, local pathology, and widespread infection of the ventricular system and adjacent neuropil in some of the mAb-treated macaque survivors. This study highlights organ-specific EBOV persistence and fatal recrudescent disease in rhesus macaque survivors after therapeutic treatment and has implications for the long-term follow-up of human survivors of EVD.
(emphasis and spacing added)
 

halcyon

Senior Member
Messages
2,482
Random, crazy wild thought: Could you biopsy the brain? They do for brain tumors. Any CFS patients have a brain tumor or brain surgery?
It's likely not common, but it's actually not rare either (Gelfand et al., 2015). There's a published case of an individual that developed rapidly progressing dementia. Not one, but two spinal fluid evaluations showed no infectious agents. A biopsy was taken from the temporal lobe and oops, what do you know, it tested positive for enteroviral RNA (Valcour et al., 2008). Once is bad luck, but oops, two more cases, same exact thing, spinal fluid negative, brain biopsy positive for enterovirus (Palacios et al., 2015; Garzo-Caldas et al., 2017). The latter two are more terrifying due to a) being fatal, and b) being caused by rituximab induced immune suppression.

Has this been done in ME/CFS patients?
Lymph node biopsy was planned to be done (ref) as part of one of the Stanford CFS studies (not Ron's group, the other one), but perhaps that never happened after Montoya's exit.
 

Pyrrhus

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Here's a new paper about the persistence of Lassa Fever virus, which is a particularly nasty RNA virus:

Virus persistence after recovery from acute Lassa fever in Nigeria: a 2-year interim analysis of a prospective longitudinal cohort study (Thielebein et al., 2022)
https://doi.org/10.1016/S2666-5247(21)00178-6

Excerpt:
Thielebein et al. 2022 said:
In this prospective, longitudinal, cohort study we collected plasma, urine, saliva, lacrimal fluid, vaginal fluid, and seminal fluid from Lassa fever survivors from Irrua Specialist Teaching Hospital in Edo State, Nigeria.
[...]
Samples were taken at discharge from hospital (month 0) and at months 0·5, 1, 3, 6, 9, 12, 18, and 24 after discharge.
[...]
Lassa virus RNA was detected using real-time RT-PCR. Infectivity was tested in cell culture and immunosuppressed mice.
[...]
Between Jan 31, 2018, and Dec 11, 2019, 165 participants were enrolled in the study, of whom 159 were eligible for analysis (49 women and 110 men). Low amounts of Lassa virus RNA were detected at month 0 in plasma (49 [45%] of 110 participants), urine (37 [34%]), saliva (five [5%]), lacrimal fluid (ten [9%]), and vaginal fluid (seven [21%] of 33 female participants). Virus RNA was cleared from these body fluids by month 3.
[...]
Lassa virus RNA remained detectable up to month 12 in seminal fluid.
[...]
Infectious virus was isolated from 48 (52%) of 93 virus RNA-positive seminal fluid samples collected between month 0 and 12.
(emphasis added)
 

Pyrrhus

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Last edited:

Pyrrhus

Senior Member
Messages
4,172
Location
U.S., Earth
There is currently a new outbreak of Ebola virus in Guinea, in West Africa, and the journal Science published this article:

New Ebola outbreak likely sparked by a person infected 5 years ago
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/202...ak-likely-sparked-person-infected-5-years-ago


:bang-head: And now it has happened a third time:

Congo reports new Ebola case linked to previous outbreak
https://abcnews.go.com/Internationa...-ebola-case-linked-previous-outbreak-88714873
A new case of the Ebola virus was confirmed in Congo’s eastern Beni city, the ministry of health announced, saying it is linked to a previous outbreak

A new case of the Ebola virus has been confirmed in Congo’s eastern Beni city, Congo’s ministry of health announced Monday, saying it is linked to a previous outbreak.

Testing by a lab at country’s National Institute for Biomedical Research in Goma confirmed that the case was the Ebola Zaire strain and was genetically linked to Congo’s 10th outbreak in the Ituri and North Kivu provinces from 2018 to 2020 that killed more than 2,000 people, the ministry said...
 

Husband of

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Messages
318
Is it a coincidence that before catching MECFS my wife and I were (still are) friends with people who have MECFS and that more than one of those friends also got MECFS after being friends with someone who had MECFS? Ive wondered this a bit but never heard evidence of a persistent infection being potentially contagious until I read this thread.

outside of this group of people I've only once, apart from online, heard about anyone with MECFS. Actually I do hear people claim they knew someone who had it for a while and then recovered, but I tend to dismiss that as mono or something.

oh, and thanks to everyone contributing to this thread; its fascinating
 

junkcrap50

Senior Member
Messages
1,333
It's likely not common, but it's actually not rare either (Gelfand et al., 2015). There's a published case of an individual that developed rapidly progressing dementia. Not one, but two spinal fluid evaluations showed no infectious agents. A biopsy was taken from the temporal lobe and oops, what do you know, it tested positive for enteroviral RNA (Valcour et al., 2008). Once is bad luck, but oops, two more cases, same exact thing, spinal fluid negative, brain biopsy positive for enterovirus (Palacios et al., 2015; Garzo-Caldas et al., 2017). The latter two are more terrifying due to a) being fatal, and b) being caused by rituximab induced immune suppression.


Lymph node biopsy was planned to be done (ref) as part of one of the Stanford CFS studies (not Ron's group, the other one), but perhaps that never happened after Montoya's exit.
Wow great find on the research!

And now with Bhupesh Prusty's very new research finding EBV & HHV6 miRNA (specific types to modifying mitochondria function/shape/formation) in ME/CFS cadaver brain tissue. Have you seen that?