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Palpitations taking Potassium

gracee41

Senior Member
Messages
115
Other ingredients are listed as follows: Purified water, aloe vera barbandensis leaf juice, MSM, propenediol (all natural, petroleum free), carbamide, octyl palmitate, cetyl alcohol, urea, octil palmitate, triethanolaminem stearic acid (vegetable source), rose canina oil, panthenol, PEG 8 Stearate, cocos nuciferas, Gardenia tahitensis flower extract, glycerin, polysorbate 65, sodium hyaluronate (100%), natural vitamin E, TEA-Carbomer, citrus peel oils & extracts (orange) (natural anti-virals), deazolidinyl urea and iolopropynyl butylcarbamate, citrus grandis (grapefruit) peel oil, citrus grandis (grapefruit) peel extract (natural anti-virals).

I tried a really good oral supplement that my son is now taking without issue. It gave me a headache and made me feel rotten. I'm very sensitive to oral supplements. That's why my doc wanted me to take the transdermal.

I will have to read more on this site about methyl trapping. Do you know what form of B12 that is tolerated the best? I just know I can't continue to feel like this. Thank you for the link. I am going to read it shortly.
 

Gondwanaland

Senior Member
Messages
5,094
Other ingredients are listed as follows: Purified water, aloe vera barbandensis leaf juice, MSM, propenediol (all natural, petroleum free), carbamide, octyl palmitate, cetyl alcohol, urea, octil palmitate, triethanolaminem stearic acid (vegetable source), rose canina oil, panthenol, PEG 8 Stearate, cocos nuciferas, Gardenia tahitensis flower extract, glycerin, polysorbate 65, sodium hyaluronate (100%), natural vitamin E, TEA-Carbomer, citrus peel oils & extracts (orange) (natural anti-virals), deazolidinyl urea and iolopropynyl butylcarbamate, citrus grandis (grapefruit) peel oil, citrus grandis (grapefruit) peel extract (natural anti-virals).
There is A LOT of stuff in there to which a sensitive person can react...
Aloe, rose hips, coconuts and citrus fruits are extremely high in salicylates, just to mention the natural ingredients.

Coincidentally reacting to a rose hips oil helped me to find out about the salicylate sensitivity.
 

caledonia

Senior Member
MSM is methyl sulfonyl methane (sulfur). There maybe could be an issue there too. It also has methyl groups (notice methyl is in the name.)

B12 forms - avoid cyanocobalamin.
Then it depends on if you have COMT mutations or not. If you have COMT, you may do better with hydroxycobalamin. Otherwise, methylcobalamin would be best. Those can be taken in conjunction with adenosylcobalamin which doesn't contain methyl groups, but will help the mitochondria.

What was the oral supplement you had trouble with?
 

Gingergrrl

Senior Member
Messages
16,171
B12 forms - avoid cyanocobalamin.
Then it depends on if you have COMT mutations or not. If you have COMT, you may do better with hydroxycobalamin. Otherwise, methylcobalamin would be best. Those can be taken in conjunction with adenosylcobalamin which doesn't contain methyl groups, but will help the mitochondria.

@caledonia I just checked my genetic genie results after reading your post and for the first two COMT mutations I am +/+ (red) but for the third I am -/- (green.) In your opinion, does this mean I would do better with hydroxy b-12? I did not tolerate the methyl b-12 and scared to try it again. At present I am just taking the B-minus supplement that you recommended so I get the other b vitamins and have had no problems with it.

I would love to hear your thoughts on this and any ideas re: hydroxy b-12. Also, would adeno b-12 be good for me since you said it can help the mitochondria? Do people take both kinds together?
 
Messages
8
Location
Puerto Vallarta, Mexico
Taurine helps get potassium and magnesium from the serum into the cells.
Interesting, I will research this further. I have had a low cellular potassium problem since 1994 (self diagnosed by muscle relaxation problem and fact that blood level is fine and the fact that supplementation relieves symptoms). I now take on an ad hoc basis (should take every day perhaps) Real Advantage's muscle supplement called Ultimate Bionic Plus containing creatine, vitamin D and C and calcium with 26% rda potassium and 63% rda magnesium. It is a great supplement at a great price. Like check out the pills on the shelf = 3% rda (!), and the Rx Neutraphos K which has only potassium (= 26% rda like the Real Advantage product) -- nothing else -- and is expensive and covered with my insurance since "it can be bought over the counter" ... yeah, right, like taking 10 of the 3% rda pills for any relief is a great option.

Note: the 26% rda potassium = 900 mg potassium as mix of carbonate, bicarbonate and citrate-
 
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Messages
8
Location
Puerto Vallarta, Mexico
OK great! I read up on taurine and I am going out soon to get some. All these years I was unaware of this property of taurine! It also helps in cases of fluid retention and heart function (like with congestive heart failure). In the last six months I have been having a problem with swelling, mainly in one foot. So all the more I thank you for your post on taurine!!!

PS. Years ago I had the opportunity to ask a nephrologist about cellular potassium insufficiency His response? If the blood level is normal there is no problem! Great help, huh? Well off he went down the hospital corridor as I thought, "Well, that is typical of the difference between a doctor and a research scientist." (I am a scientist.)
 
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Messages
8
Location
Puerto Vallarta, Mexico
Oops, I just saw that the Real Advantage supplement I quoted also contains taurine (250 mg) so this may be enough to go along with the potassium without my needing additional taurine supplementation, will have to check further.
 

Gingergrrl

Senior Member
Messages
16,171
@fjack1415 I am not sure how to calculate what amount someone needs but I take 2000 mg of Taurine every night. I do not take it during the day b/c it makes me very sleepy.
 

caledonia

Senior Member
@caledonia I just checked my genetic genie results after reading your post and for the first two COMT mutations I am +/+ (red) but for the third I am -/- (green.) In your opinion, does this mean I would do better with hydroxy b-12? I did not tolerate the methyl b-12 and scared to try it again. At present I am just taking the B-minus supplement that you recommended so I get the other b vitamins and have had no problems with it.

I would love to hear your thoughts on this and any ideas re: hydroxy b-12. Also, would adeno b-12 be good for me since you said it can help the mitochondria? Do people take both kinds together?

What is your VDR taq result? Depending on that, Yasko suggests either hydroxy + adenosyl or mostly hydroxy.

In either case, you're one of the more sensitive types to methylcobalamin. Based on your SNPs and your bad reaction, I sure wouldn't try it again either.
 

Gingergrrl

Senior Member
Messages
16,171
What is your VDR taq result? Depending on that, Yasko suggests either hydroxy + adenosyl or mostly hydroxy.

In either case, you're one of the more sensitive types to methylcobalamin. Based on your SNPs and your bad reaction, I sure wouldn't try it again either.

@caledonia Thanks for your reply and it confirms that I am not going to try Methyl B again. On the VDR taq on genetic genie my result is +/- (yellow.) What does that mean in regard to hydroxy and/or adenosyl B-12? Also, how do those dose compared to Methyl B? I really want to start low and slow as you told me if I were to try this again.
 

caledonia

Senior Member
@caledonia Thanks for your reply and it confirms that I am not going to try Methyl B again. On the VDR taq on genetic genie my result is +/- (yellow.) What does that mean in regard to hydroxy and/or adenosyl B-12? Also, how do those dose compared to Methyl B? I really want to start low and slow as you told me if I were to try this again.

You're the second most sensitive type. Yasko suggests Hydroxy B12 and Adenosyl.

The methyl B's outside of folate and B12 should be kept pretty low, like 20mg or less. There is also some evidence from Freddd that the higher one of these other B's is (sorry can't remember which one), the more potassium you'll need.

Yes, definitely take it easy with the methylfolate and B12, as well as any other methyl donors like lecithin (coverts to TMG which is tri methyl glycine). I would suggest avoiding TMG itself as that is stronger than lecithin.
 

gracee41

Senior Member
Messages
115
According to Dr. Yasko, I would most likely respond better to Hydroxy or Adenosyl B12. I have ordered the Hydroxy. So, B12 doesn't have a tendency to lower potassium? Also, I have read where some folks cannot tolerate methylfolate either. Is there an alternative to that as well? I'f not, what do you supplement with?
 

Gingergrrl

Senior Member
Messages
16,171
You're the second most sensitive type. Yasko suggests Hydroxy B12 and Adenosyl.

The methyl B's outside of folate and B12 should be kept pretty low, like 20mg or less. There is also some evidence from Freddd that the higher one of these other B's is (sorry can't remember which one), the more potassium you'll need.

Yes, definitely take it easy with the methylfolate and B12, as well as any other methyl donors like lecithin (coverts to TMG which is tri methyl glycine). I would suggest avoiding TMG itself as that is stronger than lecithin.

@caledonia Thanks for the info and I was wondering if you can recommend a brand of the hydroxy and adenosyl B-12's that you like? Do you think that I should take 20 mg of each one to start or do they need a certain ratio?

Also, how much M-folate would correlate with that? The M-folate that I bought (but have not opened) is 800 mcg and I was going to cut it in quarters (so 200 mcg) but that seems way too high compared to the amount of B-12.

I take a prescription Potassium supplement of 20 meq so I think I am okay with that. I do not take lecithin or TMG so I am also okay there. Thank you so much again for all the info.
 

caledonia

Senior Member
According to Dr. Yasko, I would most likely respond better to Hydroxy or Adenosyl B12. I have ordered the Hydroxy. So, B12 doesn't have a tendency to lower potassium? Also, I have read where some folks cannot tolerate methylfolate either. Is there an alternative to that as well? I'f not, what do you supplement with?

Hydroxy will convert to both methylcobalamin and adenosylcobalamin. Adenosyl is for the mitos and doesn't have methyl groups, so you can't take adenosyl alone and hope to fix methylation.

If you can't take methylcobalmin, then try hydroxycobalamin. If they're all bad, check for CBS expression, and if that's occurring, do treatment for that.

Or you may be hitting it too hard and fast, in which case you need to slow down.

I cover all this stuff, including low potassium, in my documents Start Low and Go Slow and Roadblocks to Successful Methylation in my signature links below.
 

caledonia

Senior Member
@caledonia Thanks for the info and I was wondering if you can recommend a brand of the hydroxy and adenosyl B-12's that you like? Do you think that I should take 20 mg of each one to start or do they need a certain ratio?

Also, how much M-folate would correlate with that? The M-folate that I bought (but have not opened) is 800 mcg and I was going to cut it in quarters (so 200 mcg) but that seems way too high compared to the amount of B-12.

I take a prescription Potassium supplement of 20 meq so I think I am okay with that. I do not take lecithin or TMG so I am also okay there. Thank you so much again for all the info.

I tried Yasko's Holistic Health liquid hydroxy Mega Drops and didn't do well with it, but it was quite effective, just not in a good way for me. I am doing well with her liquid adenosyl Mega Drops though. I take Douglas Labs Methylcobalamin Liquid and do well with that. These are all sublingual drops you put under the tongue - you hold for 30 seconds and you're done.

Note that I have these drops diluted way down so that 1 drop = 1 mcg. Out of the bottle, they're 1000mcg per drop. I have a method for diluting them described in Start Low and Go Slow.

I am taking a lot more methyl than adenosyl. Currently 4 to 6mcg methyl + 1 mcg adenosyl four times a day. I can get a lot more in if I do it four times a day instead of a whole day's amount one time a day. Otherwise I get a huge metal dump and feel bad.

I would count the all the micrograms the same between hydroxy and methyl. So 20mcg of hydroxy = 20mcg of methylcobalamin.

I think in Freddd's protocol he uses equal amounts of methyl and adenosyl, but using a lot less adenosyl relative to methyl works for me. You may end up with something different from both of us!
 

ahmo

Senior Member
Messages
4,805
Location
Northcoast NSW, Australia
@fjack1415 OK great! I read up on taurine and I am going out soon to get some. All these years I was unaware of this property of taurine! It also helps in cases of fluid retention and heart function (like with congestive heart failure). In the last six months I have been having a problem with swelling, mainly in one foot. So all the more I thank you for your post on taurine!!!

I read this last night and decided to drop my bias against taurine and see if this might work for me. I've been having a few discreet areas of swelling over the last weeks, chasing the cause. I'm pretty certain it's related to adrenal function. I have been avoiding sulfur for 1.5 years, my CBS SNP and my former reactions to sulfur products warned me to stay away.

But in the spirit of open-minded experimentation, I put 1/2 tsp taurine into my footbath. (I take my PM aminos and minerals by footbath.) I had a near immediate response: body started itching, giving me a strong negative response. When I got up to empty the FB, the swelling under my foot had flared. I had to then follow up w/ 2 further FBs w/ additional K+ and malic acid to neutralize the ammonia, + a handful of extra mg. By the end, the itching and swelling had abated. No, my body does not want any taurine, thank you very much. So, please be cautious. :nervous:
 

Gingergrrl

Senior Member
Messages
16,171
I would count the all the micrograms the same between hydroxy and methyl. So 20mcg of hydroxy = 20mcg of methylcobalamin.

So it sounds like for whatever amount of methyl B that I would try (in my next attempt at methylation), I should just substitute hydroxy B instead?

Can you clarify though, is the ratio of methyl-folate to hydroxy-b12 still the same? You had said (in another thread) to do a 1:4 ratio-- for example 20 mcg of m-folate to 80 mcg of M-b12. I hope I am not misquoting you, if so please tell me and I will correct or delete this!!!

If I got the ratio correct, would it be 20 mcg of m-folate to 80 mcg of hydroxy b-12? And then also 80 mcg of adenosyl b-12? Which part of your reference guide would best address this so I can read it?
 

caledonia

Senior Member
So it sounds like for whatever amount of methyl B that I would try (in my next attempt at methylation), I should just substitute hydroxy B instead?

Can you clarify though, is the ratio of methyl-folate to hydroxy-b12 still the same? You had said (in another thread) to do a 1:4 ratio-- for example 20 mcg of m-folate to 80 mcg of M-b12. I hope I am not misquoting you, if so please tell me and I will correct or delete this!!!

If I got the ratio correct, would it be 20 mcg of m-folate to 80 mcg of hydroxy b-12? And then also 80 mcg of adenosyl b-12? Which part of your reference guide would best address this so I can read it?

This is a good question because now that I look back at my two documents, I don't think I mentioned exact ratios. I probably ought to add that.

I looked at several supplements and computed things again. Now I'm coming up with different ratios, which are smaller than the 1:3 and 1:5 I remember mentioning in the past.

Ben Lynch has 800mcg folate with 800mcg methylcobalamin/200 mcg adenosyl

Yasko has 1 part folate to 2.5 parts hydroxycobalamin

Rich Vank had 1 part folate to 2.5 parts hydroxy but if you count folinic in the equation, it would be 1 part folate to 1.25 parts hydroxy.

Freddd has 800mcg folate/1000mcg methylcobalmin/a crumb of adenosyl (200mcg?)

So based on the above, let's say you were going to use 20mcg of folate. Then I would use 20 - 50mcg of hydroxy with 4 - 10mcg of adenosyl.

The more MTR and MTRR mutations I had, the higher I would make the B12. If you had the B12 double whammy (both MTR and MTRR) I would also go higher with the B12.

I would use this as a starting point, but then let your body tell you how much of each you need as go along with methylation. You can use self muscle testing to guide this, along with trial and error.

For example, I've had to cut back my methylfolate to only two days a week because I'm detoxing a lot of metals, but I'm still dosing with B12 every day. So my ratio looks a lot different than any of these. The ratio between the two types of B12 (methyl and adenosyl) has still remained about the same though.

Once all the metals come out, I would expect to be able to tolerate more methylfolate, so then it may look more like the above examples.

ps. I hope I haven't thoroughly confused you!