Pacing: Very interesting HealthRising article re HR and HRV monitoring and pacing - I may finally spring for an HR/HRV monitor!

[junkcrap50]

Using the 'Body Battery' algorithm now that I have finally gotten it working has been eye opening in some ways. I did not truly understand the true effect that mental stress that comes from social media was having on my body until I started using it.

I'm glad you find it helpful. That's great! For me, my battery and stress is almost always too low to be useful, like <5 and >70, respectively. So how do you compare a straight week of those scores? However, on days I feel good and better than normal, I do notice that body battery is fairly reflective and shows elevated battery levels >40, but that's uncommon. My battery also increases on mornings when my sleep was good and refreshing. Almost never does my battery increase during the day, only at night. Highest my battery ever got is like low 70s. I don't use the stress meter as it seems to be too correlated to my HR, which is always high and spikes easily. Also, seems like it's too short term of a metric. Battery works better for me.

 

[TJ_in_UT]

I got a Polar H9 chest strap and Polar M430 watch for pacing several months ago while we were living in NC. We moved back to UT in July, and I don't even need them now. I think part of it is that I learned how to pay attention to my body better, and the other part is that we're now living in a desert where there's a lot less mold/water damage. It's funny that if I get re-exposed to a water-damaged place, my symptoms flare up again and I have to be very careful to avoid PEM, but once my body has cleared out those toxins, I can go back to normal again.

I strongly suspect that the CFS/ME community can be divided into at least two groups: post-viral, and environmental illness.

 

[hapl808]

I find the stress is correlated with HR but not the same. Sometimes HR is low (for me) but stress is high, and sometimes HR is normal but stress is low. In general mine only declines during the day, but putting my feet up and resting helps, which shows circulatory issues may be involved as well I imagine.

I also have found that sometimes battery is stuck low and often correlates to feeling terrible. And when it goes higher, my condition is usually improved. Unfortunately it still has only given me minimal information about what to DO in order to improve my condition, but it has highlighted certain things that were spiking my HR more than I realized (a really enjoyable phone call, etc).

 

[Abrin]

I'm glad you find it helpful. That's great! For me, my battery and stress is almost always too low to be useful, like <5 and >70, respectively. So how do you compare a straight week of those scores? However, on days I feel good and better than normal, I do notice that body battery is fairly reflective and shows elevated battery levels >40, but that's uncommon. My battery also increases on mornings when my sleep was good and refreshing. Almost never does my battery increase during the day, only at night. Highest my battery ever got is like low 70s. I don't use the stress meter as it seems to be too correlated to my HR, which is always high and spikes easily. Also, seems like it's too short term of a metric. Battery works better for me.

This is why I also use the CorSense with the HRV app. I find the Morning Reading super helpful and just use the Body Battery as a guideline to how my day is going.

 

[keepswimming]

I really want one but: its so hard for me to get computers and gizmos to work.

What is the easiest one of these HRV gizmos?

I could get behind a device that actually informs me I should not be watching any more news channels.

Or I should not read a book with a flashlight at 11:30 pm (about the only time my eyes can focus on paragraphs)

Yes wouldn't that be great. I've thought I'd love a device that just told me exactly what I can cope with on any given day!!

The watch I have is a garmin vivosmart 4 which I have found easy to use. Instead of showing HRV it shows stress levels which are calculated from HRV. I haven't tried anything else so I don't feel I'm in a position to advise what would be best for you, there are lots of suggestions on this thread

 

[BrightCandle]

I was using a Garmin Vivoactive HR but it really didn't give me much more than heart rate because while it could monitor and alarm on high heart rates it could only do so with an exercise activity running and that limited basic functions like showing the time and burned the battery really fast, it didn't do HRV/body battery/Stress at all. It died early this week.

I figured I would just get on without one but I realised just how much I depended on that heart rate value to tell me I had spoons left in the day, it has turned out to be a critical part of pacing for me. I looked at most of the options out there and I basically came to the conclusion I was fine without the continuous alarm monitoring and would just get HR and a HRV capable watch that tracked a body battery/stress value. I ended up getting an Amazfit GTR 2e. Turns out that in the menus I found a heart rate alarm, it is fixed at 10minutes length and can't go below 100 bpm (100-150 in 10 increments) but it has the feature and that turns out to basically where I want it set anyway. I can also go about grabbing an app from the store that does this and I'll have to test more into whether that works in the background etc but it does appear to do just about most of what we want and in testing at least is fairly close in accuracy to the Garmin chest straps all be it with some gaps just due to the way the watches often loose signal.

I don't necessarily recommend it, I only just got it and need to work its quirks out (I dislike the strap and I have not found the ideal watchface yet for seeing the HR!) but was surprised to find it had alarm heart rate functionality since no reviews mentioned it at all. It sort of hits the spot cheaper in terms of what pacers are looking for as a tool. Accurate sleep tracking, a stress/body battery based on HRV and HR alarm.

 

[Reading_Steiner]

Not understand anything about the HRV factor I got something called honor band made by huawei, I only wanted one that you wear like a watch anyway. It took a long time to set up and make it work right, I had to get a relative to help me and it took 2 hours. I have found so far that my RHR was around 65 to 80 last night, going over 100 while standing and doing stuff, it dropped to a good number when I tried to sleep, below 60 at times.
Today though its up to about 90+ while travelling and after, and I feel noticeably burned out, so that confirms what seemed to be the case in the past. The strange thing though is I went for a short walk outside tonight while in this exhausted sort of state and it didn't go above 120, which is apparently normal.

 

[Nord Wolf]

Hi @Mary
I have a garmin vivosmart 4 watch, it tracks my HRV 24/7 and records it as stress levels - lower HRV means higher stress levels and vice versa. I have found having this information incredibly helpful, and amazingly accurate. I got my watch 18 months after getting ill, and it has been one of the best things I've purchased for managing CFS, it taught me so much about managing my health, and what's really going on inside. It was amazing how it opened my eyes to how I cope with specific activities (I might think something isn't taking much energy, but I check my watch and my stress levels have rocketed - so in future, I know I need to limit that particular activity and give myself time to recover afterwards). Also just by looking at the data I can see where things are heading - I too have found that high stress/low HRV means I'm heading for a crash. Exceptionally low stress/high HRV means I'm in a crash and need to rest - I find I'm alerted to the crash earlier than I would be otherwise, so I can get resting sooner. I also find it so helpful to see data that proves this is really happening to me - it's not so "invisible" anymore. I absolutely love my watch, its really been a game changer for me in monitoring my health.

Does the Garmin Vivosmart 4 allow you to set an alarm to go off when reaching a specific heart rate? To me this is essential to keep realtime tabs on pacing, and so many of these watches don't have that ability unless you are in workout mode.

 

[hapl808]

It allows that, but I have found the HR alarms to be completely unreliable. I think you have to exceed that HR level for a period of time before it goes off, but I haven't figured out exactly what metrics are involved.

 

[keepswimming]

Does the Garmin Vivosmart 4 allow you to set an alarm to go off when reaching a specific heart rate? To me this is essential to keep realtime tabs on pacing, and so many of these watches don't have that ability unless you are in workout mode.

Only in workout mode I'm afraid

 

[Judee]

Does the Garmin Vivosmart 4 allow you to set an alarm to go off when reaching a specific heart rate?

I believe the one mentioned on the site below does. You may want to message the author though to find out for sure.

https://livewithcfs.blogspot.com/search?q=monitor

The only thing is they don't sell that watch new anywhere anymore.
I did find some on eBay. One was even a Mio Alpha II version.

I purchased it but had to send it back because the band had a perfume smell that I couldn't get rid of.
Plus, I hadn't gotten to the point of figuring out how to set that alarm (not techy + brain fog)
I did get it to flash red though when I was over my programmed AT.

I posted the manual below (that I found online) if you wanted to see how to program it and any other features.

I think you also need to keep it in exercise mode whenever you want it to monitor your heart rate and alert you, which the manual said can shorten the time needed between charging.

Please research before buying one though and maybe make sure the seller allows returns.

 

[christiankatz]

Does the Garmin Vivosmart 4 allow you to set an alarm to go off when reaching a specific heart rate?

Yes, I just got one in Jan., and no, it doesn't have an alarm for that, as @keepswimming said. I'm ambivalent whether I would want the hr alarm. I love the watch though. I appreciate the body battery reading, which is calculated by your HRV readings and stress levels. It definitely lets me know when I'm going to crash. Oh, but I'm always crashed.

 

[Judee]

I ended up buying the Garmin Vivosmart 4 that @keepswimming talked about. I really like having this watch. It shows me patterns in my PEM (2-3 days), things that cause me to really crash (eggs), and things that are helpful in bringing my hr down.

I like the body battery setting the most. On the watch it shows where I'm at currently with an arrow that shows me if I'm going in the right direction (up), staying the same (maintaining) or doing too much (battery draining) so even though it does not have an alarm to remind me of going outside my hr parameters, I still use that as a reminder to rest when I need to. (It also does show heart rate and I use that too but I generally look at the body battery reading more.)

I do wonder if this watch might not be helpful in another way. Perhaps it could lend a visual to healthy doubting family members on how we're doing especially if they had one of their own to compare it with. IDK ???

 

[Rufous McKinney]

things that cause me to really crash (eggs)

I eat eggs daily

egad

 

[Rufous McKinney]

Perhaps it could lend a visual to healthy doubting family members on how we're doing especially if they had one of their own to compare it with. IDK ???

that is rather cool.

I'm so bad at anything that needs solving or is complicated: how hard do you find this device to use?

It would be fun to compare with my husband who has no energy and is about as wiped out as I am only he has none of this.

He empathizes with me. Yet he just does not "get" how THIS is not THAT.

(as he just spent 5 hours reading novels and magazines) while I am here cringing from the light.

 

[Judee]

how hard do you find this device to use?

There was a bit of a learning curve but I think you could do it. If you end up getting the same watch, I would be willing to answer questions on what I know so far like on how to set it up (hopefully I remember) and whatnot.

I'm not sure but I think it works best with their smart phone app. That can be downloaded from the Apple Apps store or the Google Play store (which is what I use).

I eat eggs daily

I just wonder if they feed viruses. I can't find any credible info or studies online that show that but I personally am starting to suspect that they do.

 

[keepswimming]

I ended up buying the Garmin Vivosmart 4 that @keepswimming talked about. I really like having this watch. It shows me patterns in my PEM (2-3 days), things that cause me to really crash (eggs), and things that are helpful in bringing my hr down.

I like the body battery setting the most. On the watch it shows where I'm at currently with an arrow that shows me if I'm going in the right direction (up), staying the same (maintaining) or doing too much (battery draining) so even though it does not have an alarm to remind me of going outside my hr parameters, I still use that as a reminder to rest when I need to. (It also does show heart rate and I use that too but I generally look at the body battery reading more.)

I do wonder if this watch might not be helpful in another way. Perhaps it could lend a visual to healthy doubting family members on how we're doing especially if they had one of their own to compare it with. IDK ???

I'm so glad you like it! It's helped me to see patterns too, and to identify crashes. Personally it's the best thing I've bought when it comes to managing my health, I wouldn't be without it.

I don't know about other people, but having that visual proof helps me. In the past I would doubt myself "maybe I could do that thing really, maybe I'm being overdramatic." But visually seeing how much certain activities take out of me helps me have the courage to limit them.

 

[Judee]

In the past I would doubt myself "maybe I could do that thing really, maybe I'm being overdramatic." But visually seeing how much certain activities take out of me helps me have the courage to limit them.

Yep...it is so nice to have the visual. It's very reaffirming...like you said...we aren't making it up. Odd things and even "easy" things...crash us.

 

[keepswimming]

Yep...it is so nice to have the visual. It's very reaffirming...like you said...we aren't making it up. Odd things and even "easy" things...crash us.

Absolutely. And it helps figure out which things are especially triggering personally which is really helpful.

I also struggle with adrenaline surges, which can trick me into thinking I can do more, as they give me "fake" energy. However I can easily identify them now as my stress levels soar! So I know the energy I'm feeling isn't real and I need to pace through them. That's so helpful to me.

 

[hapl808]

Yes, I wish I bought the Garmin years ago. It's incredibly helpful to identify actual rest versus things that seem like they should be restful but aren't - as well as reassuring as you said. Also I think the adrenaline connection is important. I used to say that to doctors and friends - I could sleep zero hours and function with zero tiredness, but only for one day. Then I would crash. But I always would function on adrenaline - which felt good while I was doing it, but always led to crashes. As I got more severe, the crashes still occur but not the recoveries.

Anyways, the rare occasions where my stress levels are low maybe give me some hints of what to do, although haven't been able to capitalize on it yet.