P5P and the after effects

[Ronagrenade2020]

Hi
Been taking b6 in its inactive form for ages with B5 and methyl B12.

Trying to prepare my body for a b vit complex but I seem to have a weird reaction to any other bs

I recently did 2 days of p5p 50mg, the first day energy was improving then dipped in afternoon, the second day I felt tired, my shins felt achey, I had heart palpitations, I felt jittery but fatigued at the same time and I could not sleep at all..

This morning I didn't take p5p and I still feel wiped out and jittery, I have very dry mouth and my heart is racing plus the ahin/ankle aches.

I am trying to get an oats done but I am starting to think that I am somehow overmethylating and then something is being depleled or dumped and it's having a catastrophic effect.

I tend to feel crap on folic acid and tried methyfolin in the past which caused similar symptoms to the ones I'm having now... Perhaps less stimulating but the se dry moothj, aches and fatigue..

I was planning on buying some folanic acid and maybe some Methyfolate and give that a go again to see if I can get the balance right and ride it out.

From the initial boost I can see that b Vits should helpe but the downstream effect I do not understand and have no idea how to balance.

I heard that sam-e is good for rebalancinh over methylation.

 

[Pyrrhus]

Been taking b6 in its inactive form for ages

I recently did 2 days of p5p 50mg, the first day energy was improving then dipped in afternoon, the second day I felt tired, my shins felt achey, I had heart palpitations, I felt jittery but fatigued at the same time and I could not sleep at all..

It's possible that your body wasn't able to utilize the inactive B6 (pyridoxine), and you ended up with low B6 levels. By taking the active form (P5P), you would now be restoring your B6 levels, so you might expect some start-up effects. The only question is how long the start-up effects would last, but I would be surprised if they last more than 2-4 weeks.

I was planning on buying some folanic acid and maybe some Methyfolate and give that a go again to see if I can get the balance right and ride it out.

That's what I did. If I remember correctly, it took me about 4 weeks to ride out the start-up effects. These start-up effects included muscle weakness, air hunger, worse brain fog, irritability...

 

[Ronagrenade2020]

Thanks for responding

Just realised that I have some methyl folate still in the cupboard so I just took 200mcg.. Will probably add 200mcg to my daily b vit cocktail and keep the p5p going for a few weeks to see what happens.

I feel hungrier too strangely, very unusual set of symptoms but if never really gone through the "start up wall" fully so I shall embrace it..

The insomnia is really intense, my normal dose of melatonin didn't touch it..

Are my symptoms more typical of deficiency rather than an adverse effect of too much?

The initial buzz was amazing, my mood lifted and cleared..

 

[Pyrrhus]

The insomnia is really intense, my normal dose of melatonin didn't touch it..

Yeah, the insomnia was a big problem for me, too. My regular sleep meds didn't work for it. The only thing that worked for it was ativan, which let me sleep and wake up feeling better than before. Of course, ativan/lorazepam is addictive, so once the insomnia goes away, you have to slowly taper off the ativan to avoid withdrawal effects. While I didn't have any problems tapering off the ativan, some people have serious problems trying to taper off the ativan.

Are my symptoms more typical of deficiency rather than an adverse effect of too much?

Fortunately, B vitamins are water soluble and any excess is easily excreted. So, unless you're taking insanely high doses, you shouldn't have to worry about adverse effects from taking too much. Just the possible start-up effects.

Hope this helps.

 

[Cnew2this]

This thread caught my eye because I am trying to decide if high doses of riboflavin bring on potassium deficiency for me. Pretty sure that is the case from my experimenting. It recently came to my attention, from reading about the @Freddd protocol, that I was experiencing potassium deficiency. Really intense pain in my calves and down into my ankles, plus other symptoms like fluctuations in heart beat. This was before I even started Fred's protocol, but what I had been doing was increasing my riboflavin intake. I was up to 50 mg standard plus 40 mg R5P.
Taking high doses of potassium took the leg pain away quickly, so I am confident what I was experiencing was potassium deficiency. But then as I was backing off on the riboflavin (down to just 35 mg R5P) I was also starting new supplements per Fred's protocol, and I found that I had to keep taking higher and higher doses of potassium to keep the leg pain from returning. Now I am just trying to decide which supplements impact my potassium the most, and trying to keep that leg pain at bay without high doses of potassium - and get all of my electrolytes balanced. I welcome comments on what may be going on.

 

[Pyrrhus]

Now I am just trying to decide which supplements impact my potassium the most, and trying to keep that leg pain at bay without high doses of potassium

For me, personally, the supplements that increase my need for potassium are B12, folate, creatine, and choline.

For me, it is quite obvious when I need potassium as I get painful foot cramps. The cramps go away about 30 minutes after I take 99mg potassium. (as either potassium citrate or as potassium gluconate)

For me, I try not to take more than 99mg potassium at a time, as more can give me heart palpitations. But sometimes I need to take 99mg in the morning and 99mg in the evening.

Hope this helps.

 

[Cnew2this]

Thanks for that @Pyrrhus I was aware that B12 and folate could be culprits, but did not realize that creatine and choline could be too. I do supplement both of those, so will experiment with lowering them.
I'm having to take about 1,500 mg per day of potassium, in three doses, to keep the leg pain at bay. And it gets worse quickly if I lower the dose.
It is interesting that a pretty small dose of potassium causes heart palpitations for you. I was experiencing some of that before I started taking potassium and it went away along with the leg pain after I started taking potassium. I made some other changes in supplements that could be what helped with the heart palpitations, but I have experimented enough to know that this leg pain goes with potassium.

 

[Ronagrenade2020]

Another failed experiment.. I have absolutely no idea why my body can't deal with methylated vitamins yet it can't methylate by itself..

Each day I feel absolutely terrible, like using the methyl Vits is actually worsening my mitochondria functioning.. I've tried to read everything but it is just so confusing.

So frustrating..

Is there anyone medically trained who can hekp me fox this? Is there any actual tests that show exactly what you are low in and high in?

I need to get out of this trap.. Why on earth does anything not work?

 

[Ronagrenade2020]

Going to go back to normal b6 and just take 1 MTF before bed (seeing as it makes me tired) plus my normal vit stack.

One thing I have noticed since starting this is that I feel more depressed in the evenings and I'm less able to achieve orgasm during sex so it's messing with something.. I thought I was over methylating but that can't be the case as I feel those are symptoms of low dopamine and would mean ubdermethylation.

I also feel my adrenals are not doing too well and maybe need a gentler approach with the non active forms that can be converted more slowly..

P5p is very odd.. Some days it gives me a boost, the next I feel really tired right after..

 

[Cnew2this]

@Ronagrenade2020 I certainly have no medical background, but some of the things you said sound familiar to what I have been going through. This may be way off base, but you mentioned pain in your shins and heart palpitations. I had that going on too, and supplementing with potassium helped. Like right away. The pain started in my calves and then worked its way down to my shins/ankles. I assume this is tight muscles pulling on tendons, or something like that. Anyway, I have never had such a dramatic response to anything as I did with taking potassium. Of course, one needs to be very careful with that too. In my case, the first dose, of about 400 mg, produced a dramatic improvement. I’m now taking 1,500 mg/day, spread over the day, but prefer to figure out what is causing the deficiency so I can reduce that. Many people say they think B12 and folate cause it. I think in my case it was too much B2, plus some other yet to be discovered supplements.

I found acu-cell.com to be very helpful to see what supplements are synergists vs antagonists. Here is the portion on potassium.

Potassium Synergists: Calcium, copper, iodine, nickel, Vitamin B6, Vitamin C.
Potassium Antagonists / Inhibitors: Manganese, magnesium, sodium, chromium, sulfur, phosphorus, cobalt, niacin / niacinamide, folic acid, PABA, Vitamin B12, choline, lecithin, alcohol.