Oxaloacetate. I am joining a study. Maybe you want to try

[GlassCannonLife]

He surely does re his fee!
But I don't know where the 500-600$ come from. I've ordered three bottles for 147$. Every bottle has 30 capsules with 250mg. So you'd need four capsules/day. Then the bottle would last for 7.5 days. So you need 4 bottles/month. That's 196$.

Which one did you get?

I just had a look at BenaGene and it's 100 mg of oxaloacetate per capsule (and 150 mg ascorbic acid). The Canadian website that was linked above is also 100 mg per capsule but with 100 mg ascorbic acid instead of 150.

 

[Martin aka paused||M.E.]

Which one did you get?

I just had a look at BenaGene and it's 100 mg of oxaloacetate per capsule (and 150 mg ascorbic acid). The Canadian website that was linked above is also 100 mg per capsule but with 100 mg ascorbic acid instead of 150.

Fuck you're right. Ok... Then it's around 540 $ per month...
That happens when you order it when you're about to fall asleep! Thanks for the hint. Awkward

 

[GlassCannonLife]

Fuck you're right. Ok... Then it's around 540 $ per month...
That happens when you order it when you're about to fall asleep! Thanks for the hint. Awkward

Haha all good. Not awkward - I found their websites a bit strange too, eg they say it's a "250 mg capsule" and then you read the ingredient list and see the real breakdown..

 

[Martin aka paused||M.E.]

Haha all good. Not awkward - I found their websites a bit strange too, eg they say it's a "250 mg capsule" and then you read the ingredient list and see the real breakdown..

Yeah Bit misleading as well

 

[Reading_Steiner]

Theres 30 of them in a bottle, It says the Dr is using 500 to 1000mg so if you only took 5 a day you could stretch it out to 6 days, that might be enough to know whether it works or not ( considering we have our ups and downs ), thats what i'm thinking. If it did do something it would be cool just to know that there is a way.

 

[perrier]

MY daughter tried it, and it stopped working, What dose is K recommending. We still have a bottle hanging around-- she might as well finish it.

 

[sb4]

I had an interesting experience the first day I tried mct oil with a carb meal. I felt noticably more energy and happier however I could never recreate this effect. Found other people had the same effect.

It is possibly due to the mct oil generating ketones + glucose gives your brain more energy than its used to, then afterwards the body probably regulates this in some way.

With high dose thiamine I have a similar experience in the first few days I feel noticably better followed by the effects fading away. I theorise that the feeling better was due to PDH actually getting turned on however the body then regulates for this and reduces PDH back to its normal amount.

No idea if that idea has any validity but perhaps something similar will happen with oxaloacetate? I have bought some and it is indeed f***ing expensive. I figure a bottle will last me 2 days at the studies does. 1g in the morning and 500mg in the evening.

 

[TiredBill]

ah yes, that spinach cure.....

The Popeye protocol. LOL.

I'm strong to the finish
Cause I eats me spinach....

Bill

 

[DrUniverse]

The Popeye protocol. LOL.

I'm strong to the finish
Cause I eats me spinach....

Bill

That reminds me of trying Ecdysterone

 

[perrier]

Theres 30 of them in a bottle, It says the Dr is using 500 to 1000mg so if you only took 5 a day you could stretch it out to 6 days, that might be enough to know whether it works or not ( considering we have our ups and downs ), thats what i'm thinking. If it did do something it would be cool just to know that there is a way.

Hi Reading, could you help me out please. How much does Dr K one should start out with on the Benegene? The capsules are 100mg. You state he is using 500-1000mg. Is there any link to this section. We have a bottle handing around. And might as well use it up. Maybe it will help again for a bit. Thanks.

 

[JES]

I had an interesting experience the first day I tried mct oil with a carb meal. I felt noticably more energy and happier however I could never recreate this effect. Found other people had the same effect.

Interesting, now actually I reckon MCT oil (coconut oil) did have a bit similar effect for me, although not as profound as oxalate/oxaloacetate. Metaphorically, it feels a bit like you replaced standard fuel with rocket fuel and suddenly the engine starts going a lot better. The problem is, if the engine has a fault elsewhere, you are not going to fix it long term by putting better fuel in. Actually you are more likely to break it more by driving it to the extreme.

The improvement I get is followed by payback in terms of increased inflammatory symptoms with MCT oil and similar for oxalate/oxaloacetate. But who knows, if PDH dysregulation is the primary cause of symptoms, maybe this could help some people long-term. Some patients can tolerate various drugs/supplements much better without getting side effects.

For anyone who has trouble finding oxaloacetate I would recommend "the Popeye protocol" simply because it had the same effects for me for a lot cheaper.

 

[Celandine]

I have to say that I'm a bit sceptical about long term positive effects. It's that old metaphor of putting gas in a broken car. Fatigue in ME is the end result of a multitude of pathological processes that need to be sorted out. I actually wonder if solely alleviating fatigue could cause patients to do too much and actually cause harm.

 

[Celandine]

Interesting, now actually I reckon MCT oil (coconut oil) did have a bit similar effect for me, although not as profound as oxalate/oxaloacetate. Metaphorically, it feels a bit like you replaced standard fuel with rocket fuel and suddenly the engine starts going a lot better. The problem is, if the engine has a fault elsewhere, you are not going to fix it long term by putting better fuel in. Actually you are more likely to break it more by driving it to the extreme.

The improvement I get is followed by payback in terms of increased inflammatory symptoms with MCT oil and similar for oxalate/oxaloacetate. But who knows, if PDH dysregulation is the primary cause of symptoms, maybe this could help some people long-term. Some patients can tolerate various drugs/supplements much better without getting side effects.

For anyone who has trouble finding oxaloacetate I would recommend "the Popeye protocol" simply because it had the same effects for me for a lot cheaper.

Sorry--I basically just used the same metaphor as you before I read your post!

 

[Alvin2]

I have to say that I'm a bit sceptical about long term positive effects. It's that old metaphor of putting gas in a broken car. Fatigue in ME is the end result of a multitude of pathological processes that need to be sorted out. I actually wonder if solely alleviating fatigue could cause patients to do too much and actually cause harm.

It comes down to whether your treating the symptoms, the disease mechanism or screwing with the mechanism.

In Parkinsons, Levodopa is only symptom management, it does not modify the disease in a positive or negative way. it just gives somewhat better motor control until the disease is very advanced, then it stops working at all.

They have found people who don't take it don't seem to progress slower or faster.

But i get where you are coming from, if this works and its screws with the mechanism and we end up worse off than thats bad. If it is non interfering symptom control or disease modifying then that is acceptable (and disease modifying in a good way is what we really want).

 

[Reading_Steiner]

Hi Reading, could you help me out please. How much does Dr K one should start out with on the Benegene? The capsules are 100mg. You state he is using 500-1000mg. Is there any link to this section. We have a bottle handing around. And might as well use it up. Maybe it will help again for a bit. Thanks.

I think it was some information they pulled from the IACFS/ME conference that usually happens around this time of year, I haven't seen the videos yet because they are not available on Youtube, I usually try to watch most of the videos I can find and read the odd paper if it seems interesting. I have some of these pills now, the 'benagene' one, i'll try some later, not expecting miracles though. I will probably take 5 but maybe spread them out a bit say 2 at first then wait an hour then another one and so on.

I usually get mild benefit from 'succinic acid' and I imagine the effect will be similar, maybe a bit stronger. The first time I took succinic acid the effect was much stronger, but that was before I was taking various things including vitamin E, D, NAC, Reishi mushroom, green tea extract. I've noticed that while on those I haven't experienced a common problem which is that when I try to play video games the nervous excitement is too much and my nerves seem to be overloaded, I cant handle it for long and I have to stop playing, this is something i've experienced a lot, sometimes it helps if I turn the sound off.

 

[sb4]

My benaGene oxaloacetate also arrived today, I'll be taking it tomorow. It comes with a leaflet bigging up the supplement. One thing I noticed though was:

"Ketone Support
benaGene contains the ketone Oxaloacetate, which is depleted in the liver during fasting or a low-carb diet. benaGene assists your body in converting fats to energy and supports proper heart brain and overall energy functioning during a ketogenic diet or fasting."

I googled a bit and realised I was wrong earlier when I said oxaloacetate build up in the liver causes the liver to make ketones. FAKE NEWS.
Oxaloacetate is indeed reduced with low carb as you don't have much pyruvate to generate it. In fact what triggers ketosis is high acetyl CoA (from fat) and low oxaloacetate (as there are no carbs to make it).

Not sure how this would help inhibited pyruvate dehydrogenase though. Unless the same thing inhibiting PDH is also inhibiting Pyruvate Carboxylase.

 

[perrier]

My benaGene oxaloacetate also arrived today, I'll be taking it tomorow. It comes with a leaflet bigging up the supplement. One thing I noticed though was:

"Ketone Support
benaGene contains the ketone Oxaloacetate, which is depleted in the liver during fasting or a low-carb diet. benaGene assists your body in converting fats to energy and supports proper heart brain and overall energy functioning during a ketogenic diet or fasting."

I googled a bit and realised I was wrong earlier when I said oxaloacetate build up in the liver causes the liver to make ketones. FAKE NEWS.
Oxaloacetate is indeed reduced with low carb as you don't have much pyruvate to generate it. In fact what triggers ketosis is high acetyl CoA (from fat) and low oxaloacetate (as there are no carbs to make it).

Not sure how this would help inhibited pyruvate dehydrogenase though. Unless the same thing inhibiting PDH is also inhibiting Pyruvate Carboxylase.

What brand did you purchase? We have a bottle and there was no leaflet. Thank you

 

[sb4]

What brand did you purchase? We have a bottle and there was no leaflet. Thank you

benaGene

 

[J.G]

Not sure how this would help inhibited pyruvate dehydrogenase though. Unless the same thing inhibiting PDH is also inhibiting Pyruvate Carboxylase.

I'm wondering whether the therapeutic benefit of oxaloacetate, if there truly is any, stems from its relationship with the urea cycle. If the metabolic studies by i.a. Norwegian researchers are accurate (which they look to be) and we indeed burn lots of amino acids in lieu of glucose for energy, then we'll by default overproduce ammonia. (Since ammonia is a byproduct of protein catabolism.)

Ammonia moreover stimulates the transport of tryptophan into the brain. Might not need (m)any IDO2 mutations to sustain the trap if we border on hyperammonemia for long enough. Hmm.

Anyhow, oxaloacetate can be converted into aspartic acid, which enters the urea cycle. A biochemist can probably tell us whether any quantity of supplementary oxaloacetate can make a meaningful difference in clearing ammonia. Considering how oxaloacetate is not a standard treatment in hepatic encephalopathy, I kind of doubt it. But who knows - perhaps the effect is addictive to whatever it does for the Krebs cycle.

 

[NilaJones]

Hello everybody! I haven't been around much lately. But I heard the news about oxylacetate, and I came here to see what you all had to say about it.

I'm excited about this because the very first thing that I ever found that helped me was eating large quantities of green leafy greens everyday, and I still do that. Popeye is not the only one! I never figured out what it was in the greens that help. It's not iron, and it's not folate. Maybe it's oxaloacetate.

I did some looking around for cheaper sources. Jubilance has a promo code, TRY-FOR-19.95, which gets you the $20 price. But as people said above, that's only a couple days worth, and it might help it first but stop working after a couple days. So it's not enough to seriously try it.

Here's a place selling oxalacetic acid, which is the same thing plus hydrogen, 25 kg for $355.

https://www.usbio.net/biochemicals/O8099/Oxalacetic-Acid-Oxaloacetic-acid

I don't know if we need to have some kind of laboratory ID to buy it? If so maybe somebody here has that?

I would be interested in getting in on a bulk buy if people want to do that!