Over-methylation?

[Ninan]

I just realized that must be what's happening to me. Haven't slept for a week (insomnia and when I finally fall asleep I wake up). First I thought it was D-ribose but then I stopped it and continued raising folate (folic acid) and just woke up: 3 AM, sweating and feeling all flushed. Heart beating too fast, but part of it could be due to doing too much.

I've gone from 3 mg of folate to 6 mg the last week. And took a shot of methyl B12 last Sunday, then Wednesday, Sunday and Tuesday. I got great energy after three years of experiencing no effect at all from B12. I used to have great effect. Seems it's working but too much too quickly?

Getting niacin tomorrow. Got all the advice I needed from another thread and from chatting. Thanks PR!

 

[digi]

I'm about to try some methyl supplements for MTHFR compound hetro and I want to make sure I have the suggested Niacin at hand if I experience an over methylation response.

Thanks!

 

[Ninan]

That's probably wise. I heard that before but I just didn't think it would happen to me. Good thinking, there, Ninan!

Does anyone know if D-ribose can cause overmethylation? The feeling I have now is exactly the same as when I take too much ribose: The heat, the insomnia, the speedy feeling.

 

[Ninan]

I saw you got it too, @Gingergrrl but a bit worse? Did you find a dose that worked better?

 

[Gingergrrl]

@Ninan I was just about to post in your thread before you tagged me! My experience with over-methylation was horrific and very acute (vs. yours sounded like it built up a bit slower with several nights of insomnia?) I am sorry to hear that this happened to you and definitely have the Niacin on hand!

I started with B-12 injections at 5 mg/ml for 1-2 wks and they felt great. Then I added the methyl-folate first at a 1/4 of a 2.5 mg tab, then built up to 1/2 a 2.5 mg tab and all seemed okay. So (in my ignorance) I increased the B-12 shot to 7 mg/ml and the Folate to the full 2.5 mg tab (on the same day.)

I ate breakfast and took my supplements and seemed okay. I was then sitting at the computer answering e-mails and felt very jittery and shaky. I suddenly got a headache and felt like I was going to throw up. Then the worst part was my muscles started twitching and I got really agitated (physically and mentally) and my HR went up to 140 (while sitting!)

Thank God my husband was home b/c I panicked and my HR kept increasing and wouldn't go down. I had the Niacin thanks to Caledonia's superb advice and my husband gave me Atenolol, Niacin, and other electrolytes (magnesium, potassium, salt stick, etc.)

The total reaction lasted for three days and I was so agitated that I threw a water bottle and knocked over a stand in our office (which is totally out of character for me.) I also got extremely depressed telling my husband he should leave me b/c I was so ill and useless, etc. My husband called my doctor (who was on vacation) so we spoke with the other doctor who said it was definitely over-methylation and to stop the B-12 & Folate for at least two weeks. My regular doctor then e-mailed me and advised me to stop my thyroid med, too, and go in for a bunch of blood and urine tests (b/c he wanted to rule out other causes and is super thorough.)

So at the moment I am not to take any methylation supps until the test results are in. My plan once I can re-start is to start Low and Slow as everyone advises here on PR. I plan to take 200 mcg of Folate and 1 mg B-12 shot every day (until the shots run out and then switch to sublingual.) If this is still too high, I will go even lower. If this works, I will stay at this dose for 6-8 wks before trying to increase.

I got advice from a lot of the experts on PR b/c the entire methylation process was (and still is) very new for me. Hope it goes well for you and would love to hear updates if you don't mind!

ETA: I take D-Ribose 2x/day (mixed in water at breakfast and dinner) and have never had a bad reaction to it.

 

[Ninan]

So sorry to hear about that @Gingergrrl It sounds really scary! Much worse than my reaction. Good thing you took the advice and kept niacin at home!

Seems I've built up folate quicker than you but B12 slower. My B12 shots are 4mg each. I did take one two days ago and it usually kicks in after 24 hours so it might get worse during the day. I'm doing the same as you are: Quitting both supplements for a few days and then take lower doses. Getting niacin quickly turned out to be a bit tricky from where I am but if it doesn't get worse I think I'll manage. Will order it though!

I've taken B12 before and felt great on it but then I didn't take folate. It stopped working three years ago and I didn't try increasing folate this much until now. So I guess for me it's about finding the right folate dose (and kind?). I'm doing the gene test today to see if I have any mutations.

Good thing though: It's working! I hope we both find a level that gives energy without bad reactions. It's not easy being your own doctor. :thumbdown:

 

[ahmo]

I just realized that must be what's happening to me. Haven't slept for a week (insomnia and when I finally fall asleep I wake up). First I thought it was D-ribose but then I stopped it and continued raising folate and just woke up: 3 AM, sweating and feeling all flushed. Heart beating too fast, but part of it could be due to doing too much.

I've gone from 3 mg of folate to 6 mg the last week. And took a shot of methyl B12 last Sunday, then Wednesday, Sunday and Tuesday. I got great energy after three years of experiencing no effect at all from B12. I used to have great effect. Seems it's working but too much too quickly?

Getting niacin tomorrow. Got all the advice I needed from another thread and from chatting. Thanks PR!

Fred suggests increasing folate at a rate of 100-200mcg every day or 2. This worked well for me. On the few occasions I experienced 'overmethylation', I immediately took a 1mg B12, rather than niacin. this also worked brilliantly for me. Sometimes, not always, I would add this extra B12 into my ongoing total. I determined whether to raise the B12 by self-testing, which also has worked brilliantly for me.

 

[Ninan]

Fred suggests increasing folate at a rate of 100-200mcg every day or 2. This worked well for me. On the few occasions I experienced 'overmethylation', I immediately took a 1mg B12, rather than niacin. this also worked brilliantly for me. Sometimes, not always, I would add this extra B12 into my ongoing total. I determined whether to raise the B12 by self-testing, which also has worked brilliantly for me.

That's about the rate I used. Guess I'm sensitive? And I think more B12 makes it worse for me so I think I'll stay away from it at least until next week.

 

[ahmo]

@Ninan 100-200mcg every 2 days would only be 300-600mcg added in a week, not the 3mg you wrote. Are we mixing mcg and mg??

 

[Ninan]

@Ninan 100-200mcg every 2 days would only be 300-600mcg added in a week, not the 3mg you wrote. Are we mixing mcg and mg??

We are. We haven't slept for a week! Thanks, that might explain it.

 

[Helen]

I think this product is superior when titrating methylfolate. 1 drop sublingual is 67 mcg. Very easy to start and go slow when MeCbl is in place.

http://www.holisticheal.com/methylmate-b-nutritional-supplement.html

 

[Gingergrrl]

I'm about to try some methyl supplements for MTHFR compound hetro and I want to make sure I have the suggested Niacin at hand if I experience an over methylation response.

I took 50 mg of Niacin (one pill) and thought that was all you were supposed to take. I had no flushing but it made me sedated (which was good at that time!) I learned on PR after the fact that since my symptoms continued for three days, I could have continued to take additional Niacin but I did not know at that time.

 

[Gingergrrl]

@Ninan 100-200mcg every 2 days would only be 300-600mcg added in a week, not the 3mg you wrote. Are we mixing mcg and mg??

We are. We haven't slept for a week! Thanks, that might explain it.

@Ninan, I just wanted to clarify for my own understanding, so did you mean in your initial post that you went from 3 mg of Folate to 6 mg of Folate or you actually were taking 300 mcg and went to 600 mcg when you had the bad reaction? I am trying to compare dosages with different people's experiences as we are all so different.

 

[Ninan]

I took niacin a few hours ago. I'm a bit calmer. Nice.

I'm taking folic acid, not methyl folate. Started with 1 mg two weeks ago and now taking 6 mg.

 

[ahmo]

Folic acid is the form we're generally trying to avoid. Unfortunately it's added to all fortified food, that is, essentially all breads, pasta, etc., at least in US.

 

[Ninan]

@ahmo I don't eat bread and pasta anyway. I know it's not the best kind but I don't remember why. It's what I had at home. Are other kinds better even if you don't have any of the genetic mutations? I did the test today, lab results will take a few weeks.

 

[ahmo]

My understanding is that folic is bad, full stop. Look in the guide I've linked in my signature to see some of Fred's comments on folic. I was shocked a few months ago to find Andrew Weil still not making any distinction, still talking about folic. I don't think anyone involved in methylation therapies thinks it's a good thing. Also, see Ben Lynch's mthfr.net for info re folic.

 

[digi]

Unfortunately my title had my question and when it was merged here it didn't make a sense anymore. I was wondering if the active ingredient in the tablet was nicotinamide.

If I take nicotinamide will that help with over methylation or do I need another form of B3/Niacin.
"I'm about to try some methyl supplements for MTHFR compound hetro and I want to make sure I have the suggested Niacin at hand if I experience an over methylation response."

 

[ahmo]

@digi I suggest you go to Ben Lynch's mthfr.net and look there. He recommends niacin, is sure to have info re which form.

 

[Gingergrrl]

Unfortunately my title had my question and when it was merged here it didn't make a sense anymore. I was wondering if the active ingredient in the tablet was nicotinamide.

If I take nicotinamide will that help with over methylation or do I need another form of B3/Niacin.
"I'm about to try some methyl supplements for MTHFR compound hetro and I want to make sure I have the suggested Niacin at hand if I experience an over methylation response."

@digi I am pretty sure that when you buy Niacin, it is automatically the Nicotinamide form unless you buy Niacinamide which is different. But @caledonia can confirm that. I feel bad, I keep tagging her but I don't want to tell you something incorrect.