NIH research findings: mTOR
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BrightCandle
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So the problem is activated mTor and that leads to phosphorlation ATG13 which impairs autophagy.
The question is how to stop mTor being activated.
The question is how to stop mTor being activated.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0944711319302284
That's one way...it deffo helps but no cure
Its not from the intramural NIH study, this group recently received a grant from the NIH though so thats probably why they were brought on the meeting.
Dakota15
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@HTester - if you can share, any thoughts on this?
Judee
Psalm 46:1-3
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For some reason, I don't know if he sees these. You tagged him in the Prusty thread too and he hasn't responded yet.
That doesn't seem like him so maybe he doesn't have that set up in notification settings...idk. (shrug) ???
I'll link this and the Prusty thread in one of his threads and see if he will respond 'cause I would like to know too.
Edit: Oops, I put the message to him on Ben's thread but he's been answering questions there so hopefully he'll see it. https://forums.phoenixrising.me/thr...now-called-infa-itaconate-shunt-part-2.89388/
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This was interesting so just to summarize what I heard for those that are too busy or severely ill - Simmaron research ( I thought based in Oxford but here it said they were doing work in other countries ) found elevated levels of a thing called ATG13 using a sort of plate of antibody spots that bind to various compounds in the body that they think are relative to something called Autophagy ( not to be confused with apoptosis ). In the ME/CFS patients they found that this test showed higher levels of ATG13 in the SERUM ( a fractional component from peoples blood ), compared to healthy 'controls' i.e. average people who functional well with no apparently chronic disease. They realized this meant that the level of ATG13 inside the bodys cells is lower or that its 'inactivated' i.e. not functioning properly, its being chemically modified ( phosphorylation ) which makes it leave the cell more than usual. They decided this was due to something called MTOR which I have heard of before, so they wanted to test this, and made a drug called SIM501 and gave it to mouse, they found that the mice that were given this drug went on to display some overt signs that indicate they might be experincing something similar to ME/CFS and also PEM, their movements different from normal mice and also the ( electrical ) 'muscle wave' could be measured as different ( has this been correlated with human patients ? ). The unmodified mice recovered from exercise after a short period of rest but the mouse that were given SIM501 did not perform at their normal level even after 2 days, and the mouses grip strength was lower.
Dude
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Interessting, thanks for the summary! Do you believe its the same Protein that prusty has found?
From GPT
There is currently no specific medicine available that can renew ATG13 in cells. ATG13 is an important protein involved in the process of autophagy, which is a fundamental cellular mechanism responsible for the degradation and removal of damaged or surplus cellular components.
There are several drugs that can activate the autophagy process in general, and they may indirectly lead to the renewal of ATG13 in cells. For example, rapamycin, which belongs to a group of drugs called mTOR inhibitors, can block the mTOR signaling pathway, which is an important regulator of autophagy. By blocking this pathway, rapamycin can activate the autophagy process, which may lead to the renewal of ATG13 in cells.
However, it is important to note that rapamycin and other mTOR inhibitors are primarily used to treat certain cancers and autoimmune diseases and should only be taken under the supervision of a healthcare professional due to their potential side effects.
Moreover, there are various natural compounds and dietary supplements that can promote autophagy, such as green tea, curcumin, resveratrol, and omega-3 fatty acids. However, their effects on the expression and renewal of ATG13 in cells are not yet fully understood, and further research is needed to evaluate their safety and efficacy.
From GPT
There is currently no specific medicine available that can renew ATG13 in cells. ATG13 is an important protein involved in the process of autophagy, which is a fundamental cellular mechanism responsible for the degradation and removal of damaged or surplus cellular components.
There are several drugs that can activate the autophagy process in general, and they may indirectly lead to the renewal of ATG13 in cells. For example, rapamycin, which belongs to a group of drugs called mTOR inhibitors, can block the mTOR signaling pathway, which is an important regulator of autophagy. By blocking this pathway, rapamycin can activate the autophagy process, which may lead to the renewal of ATG13 in cells.
However, it is important to note that rapamycin and other mTOR inhibitors are primarily used to treat certain cancers and autoimmune diseases and should only be taken under the supervision of a healthcare professional due to their potential side effects.
Moreover, there are various natural compounds and dietary supplements that can promote autophagy, such as green tea, curcumin, resveratrol, and omega-3 fatty acids. However, their effects on the expression and renewal of ATG13 in cells are not yet fully understood, and further research is needed to evaluate their safety and efficacy.
@Dude i dont think its the same as what Prusty found because Prusty found a protein to be low in the blood while ATG13 is found higher than what is expected in the blood. In mecfs the cell cancels the autophagy process by phosphorylating ATG13 and then throws it out into the blood.
Hip
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After testing ChatGPT extensively for my medical science searches in recent months, I've found it often completely fabricates answers. And if you ask it to provide sources for the statements it makes, ChatGPT will often make up the title of a non-existent study and provide that for reference! So any results have to be taken with a large pinch of salt.
Bing Chat (https://bing.com/chat) is a much better AI chatbot to use for medical research. It always provides references for the statements it makes, and those refs usually support the statements.
There is now a browser extension you can use which allows you to use Bing Chat on browsers other than Microsoft Edge.
Which means that they may just be measuring a difference between healthy active people and people who are hampered by 'feeling sick'. They should check the levels of some patients with FM, MS, cancer, and other physically-limiting diseases. They should check patients with immune systems activated by other diseases too, in case it correlates with immune function.
While checking for the proper definition of autophagy, I came across this ( https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/signs-of-autophagy ):
"Research suggests that the production of ketone bodies could stimulate autophagy (8, 9).
Therefore, along with indicating that your body is in ketosis, increased ketone levels can be a sign of autophagy."
That's the kind of misinformation I really hate in those advertising-driven health articles. "Suggests" does not mean "this is proven", so any conclusions or recommendations based on it are without much value.
pattismith
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It seems that mTOR activation is found in many diseases, for example ADHD and Alzheimer (diseases with fatigue and cognitive impairment involved).
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9978448/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9978448/
Forummember9922
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To test how unifying this hypothesis would be- Would mTor issue cause microclots downstream? Or rather would lack of autophagy cause microclots?
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Very interesting, thanks for sharing!
I’m trying to get my head around the inflammatory demyelination. EMGs from pwME should be abnormal then, right?
What am I missing?
I’m trying to get my head around the inflammatory demyelination. EMGs from pwME should be abnormal then, right?
What am I missing?
Are you using 4.0 or 3.5? I found that 3.5 was really bad at that, to a degree that you had to triple check every answer and citations were wrong 100% of the time. I think 4.0 has improved a lot. Still citations are much better in Bing, but the veracity of answers in 4.0 for medical research is far better than 3.5.
What the people behind the claims want you to miss? There are lots of claims that focus on some logical-sounding theory, but ignore common observations that contradict the claim. "Drug x theoretically should reduce this symptom!!! However, many people with that disease have taken that drug but showed no reduction, which pretty much disproves the theory."
For this specific study, I doubt that they did the "do common observations support or contradict this theory" test. They haven't shown that the finding is unique to ME.
Hip
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I've only got access to ChatGPT 4.0 via https://poe.com, which only allows one query on 4.0 per day, so I've not really used 4.0. Is there a place where you can get free access to 4.0?
