New, Inexpensive CBS Ammonia Fix

[calexis6666]

Thank you very much! Very helpful. My issue now is tolerating herbs. I am Salycilate intolerant. I want to detox my live, kidneys, and lypmphatics as well as remineralize before I kill the parasites and bacteria. I want my body strong enough to withstand the mycotoxin detox. I haven't had much luck finding detoxes that don't have herbs. Yasko has RNA nucleotide supplements for liver etc cleansing. But they are super expensive. She also has glandulars I may try. If you have any ideas on this that would be great! I am taking Calcium D Glucarate for liver cleansing and I only eat broths as far as animal protein so that will help. But I had to stop the Nettle Tea for my kidneys cuz I was reacting to the Salycilates. This is so hard when I can't ingest stuff that is healthy for me. I just bought a multi mineral supplement with 1gram of Boron in it. If it's not enough I'll buy more...It's Pure Encapsulations.

 

[aaron_c]

For better or for worse I never actually had salycilate sensitivity that I was aware of. I just had a general branfog-type symptom that was removed by taking large amounts of molybdenum and then later by taking boron, which I assume was due to difficulty converting sulfites to sulfates. I you have never taken molybdenum then I don't mean to dissuade you from trying just a bit of it. But I would wait until you've taken boron for maybe two weeks, and I'd start with a tiny amount of molybdenum. And I would never go above 100 micrograms per day, and even that might be too high, I'm not sure.

I take my boron as a foot bath because if I take it orally I get diarrhea. 1 mg should be within the range of an effective oral dose, but like I said, I'm not all that familliar with oral doses. Boron should be balanced with B2--they bind to each other and essentially chelate one another. I think I've arrived at a sort of compromise between the two of them but it may be that a year or two from now I'll look back and think that even this compromise was problematic in some way. But in any case if you take boron for a while without b2 my guess is you'll start to get a feel for what b2 deficiency might feel like--I think this was why I was boron deficient in the first place. Then if you take b2 without boron for a while you'll start to get a feel for what boron deficiency might feel like. And then you can navigate between the two extremes. Or you can just guess at a happy balance and tweak it from there. I'm sorry I have nothing more precise to offer.

The impact of boron on sulfites took maybe three or so weeks to rev up if I remember correctly.

Pure Encapsulations has also been bought out by Nestle, by the way.

I've been reading Neil Nathan's book "Toxic" and he has some interesting things to say about the cell danger response. One of the things is that it encourages cells to sequester heavy metals, or at least not attempt to excrete them. So the big question, in my mind, is what might be triggering the cell danger response (assuming that's what's happening). Just food for thought.

Again, sorry I can't be of more help.

 

[calexis6666]

Rather than making up a liposomal mix, I put the malic powder in my footbath, along w/ my aminos, minerals. Works a charm.

Add: Also, I add it to my H2O enema following my coffee enemas.

Can you tell me what aminos and minerals you put in your footbath? Do you put sulfur bearing aminos that you cannot digest orally?

 

[ahmo]

@calexis6666 I put aminos that I was already using: GABA, glycine, not sure if others, this is now a few years back. Also potassium, as I was using high amounts, while correcting methylation, but no longer take any. I tried mg oil in it as well, but need far too much magnesium, now use tablets. Not sure about sulfurous aminos, can't even think of what else I might have been using. Now use glycine again, just put it into my tea. good luck.

 

[calexis6666]

Thanks! I have been putting the aminos under my tongue as well as taking some other supplements. A lot of them have been giving me headaches. I started doing coffee enemas and my headaches are gone after taking the supplements. So my theory is my liver cannot handle the sulfur, the ammonia, the salycilates, the b vitamins, and fixing the liver as well as leaky gut will take care of a lot of issues. I think a lot of people tend to ignore the liver.

 

[calexis6666]

@calexis6666 I put aminos that I was already using: GABA, glycine, not sure if others, this is now a few years back. Also potassium, as I was using high amounts, while correcting methylation, but no longer take any. I tried mg oil in it as well, but need far too much magnesium, now use tablets. Not sure about sulfurous aminos, can't even think of what else I might have been using. Now use glycine again, just put it into my tea. good luck.

Do you just dump a bunch of aminos in footbath? Do you use more since it's not oral? How much?

 

[ahmo]

Click on my avi to get to my blog posts re footbaths. I use the aminoes that I'd already been using orally. Probably using same amt, I can't remember at this point.

 

[roller]

I've been reading Neil Nathan's book "Toxic" and he has some interesting things to say about the cell danger response. One of the things is that it encourages cells to sequester heavy metals, or at least not attempt to excrete them. So the big question, in my mind, is what might be triggering the cell danger response (assuming that's what's happening). Just food for thought.

if there is anywhere high ammonia, then it should be ammonia solution (diluted with water), at least in the brain (high water), plus possibly other chemical solutions from it, too?
this reacts with metals.
wondering if this would explain why jewelery becomes dull on some ppls skin (those with high ammonia)?

think i also read, that it is used as a cooling agent, and something for battery power storage.

perhaps there is a link with ammonia...

... electric gut bacteria + light + ammonia (electrostatic discharge) = electric brain zaps

 

[roller]

could Flumazenil (Flumazepil) help with the changes/damage done by high ammonia ?

...is a selective GABA-A antagonist[1] available by injection and intranasal. It has antagonistic and antidote properties to therapeutically used benzodiazepines, through competitive inhibition.

because ...
its a benzo-withdrawal drug (= benzodiazepine receptor antagonist)
and ...


high ammonia and endozepines (BDZs) = cause of hepatic encephalities (HE)

Background: Ammonia and endogenous benzodiazepines (BDZs) are two of the most important agents among those taken into consideration in the pathogenesis of hepatic encephalopathy (HE).

(negative) stress increases cortisol (known as anxiety = (psychology) brain zaps)

Exposure to high environmental ammonia (HEA) levels increases the vulnerability of fishes to parasitic, viral and bacterial diseases. We tested the hypothesis that elevated plasma cortisol levels play a role in the HEA-mediated immunosuppression in fishes.
Together, these results suggest that the HEA effect on the innate immune response is in part mediated by cortisol signaling, while the mode of action, including the receptors involved remains to be elucidated.

in psychology "brain zaps" or bangs seem assigned to
- anxiety (stress response, cortisol)
- anti-depressiva
- benzo withdrawal
(cant subscribe to any of them, but have other causes and remedies)

 

[dannybex]

@aaron_c
Why does B6 actually increase ammonia?
Is it because glutamine gets converted into glutamic acid and releases one ammonia group?

https://neuroendoimmune.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/gaba-glutamate-synthesis.png

Could one bypass this effect by supplementing glutamic acid with b6?

I know this is an ancient post, but wanted to point out that glutamic acid is what LOWERS ammonia, and converts to glutamine in the process. If one has trouble sleeping, is irritable, tense, overly wired-but-tired, has muscle spams, cramps, twitching -- just can't settle down -- that may be related to elevated ammonia levels.

Also, arginine, ornithine and alpha ketoglutaric acid can lower ammonia levels.

 

[Sophiedw]

Hey @aaron_c , not sure if you’re still active but this is superb info. Just got in my malic acid with high blood ammonia and nothing else working. Seems to have been a shift definitely. It does give me a rather painful liver tho, I wonder if I should support it with some other nutrients? Already on milk thistle and a little ala.

and what would you say the link between bh4 and glutathione is? Bh4 seemed to greatly reduce mine but it may have been using up my very limited cysteine reserves in synthesising glutathione.

Do you, or anyone else, know of the relationship between glutathione synth and bh4

 

[Learner1]

Do you, or anyone else, know of the relationship between glutathione synth and bh4

and what would you say the link between bh4 and glutathione is? Bh4 seemed to greatly reduce mine but it may have been using up my very limited cysteine reserves in synthesising glutathione.

I tend toward low BH4. This has given me a tendency to create peroxynitrites from high oxidative and nitrosative stress, which uses up glutathione and precursors. Taking Kuvan, pharmaceutical BH4, has been helpful.

"In this article, we have focussed upon the sensitivity of BH4 to oxidative catabolism and the observation that when BH4 is limiting some cellular sources of NOS may generate superoxide whilst other BH4 saturated NOS enzymes may be generating NO. Such a scenario could favor peroxynitrite generation. If peroxynitrite is not scavenged, e.g., by antioxidants such as reduced glutathione, irreversible damage to critical cellular enzymes could ensue. Such targets include components of the mitochondrial electron transport chain, alpha ketoglutarate dehydrogenase and possibly pyruvate dehydrogenase. "

From: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17191137/

"Omitting AA (ascorbic acid - vitamin C, which recycles glutathione) resulted in a 91% decrease in BH4 levels"

From:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31509907/

BH4 is also used for catecholamine (neurotransmitter production), so low serotonin, dopamine etc may result from low BH4.

And low BH4 can result in lower nitric oxide production and high blood pressure.

Just got in my malic acid with high blood ammonia and nothing else working. Seems to have been a shift definitely. It does give me a rather painful liver tho, I wonder if I should support it with some other nutrients? Already on milk thistle and a little ala

Taking ornithine aspartate or l-citrulline both help to reduce excess ammonia. I've taken 1-2g of either with good result. High blood ammonia is destructive and definitely should be tackled.

 

[Sophiedw]

Does anyone have a theory as to why the malic acid might give me almost instant air hunger? Thanks

 

[Sophiedw]

I tend toward low BH4. This has given me a tendency to create peroxynitrites from high oxidative and nitrosative stress, which uses up glutathione and precursors. Taking Kuvan, pharmaceutical BH4, has been helpful.

"In this article, we have focussed upon the sensitivity of BH4 to oxidative catabolism and the observation that when BH4 is limiting some cellular sources of NOS may generate superoxide whilst other BH4 saturated NOS enzymes may be generating NO. Such a scenario could favor peroxynitrite generation. If peroxynitrite is not scavenged, e.g., by antioxidants such as reduced glutathione, irreversible damage to critical cellular enzymes could ensue. Such targets include components of the mitochondrial electron transport chain, alpha ketoglutarate dehydrogenase and possibly pyruvate dehydrogenase. "

From: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17191137/

"Omitting AA (ascorbic acid - vitamin C, which recycles glutathione) resulted in a 91% decrease in BH4 levels"

From:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31509907/

BH4 is also used for catecholamine (neurotransmitter production), so low serotonin, dopamine etc may result from low BH4.

And low BH4 can result in lower nitric oxide production and high blood pressure.


Taking ornithine aspartate or l-citrulline both help to reduce excess ammonia. I've taken 1-2g of either with good result. High blood ammonia is destructive and definitely should be tackled.

Bh4 seemed to worsen my condition, perhaps I ran out of precursors for neurotransmitters. Any idea why this maybe or what they might be?

A little off topic but thanks anyway.

 

[Gondwanaland]

Does anyone have a theory as to why the malic acid might give me almost instant air hunger? Thanks

Air hunger for me has always been a symptom of B6 deficiency - usually made worse by B6 supplements, but improved by short term, low dose P5P.

 

[Sophiedw]

Thank you! I’ll try this next time. I think it may relate to increasing my ammonia levels for some reason, is there a reason this could
Be true? Best wishes

 

[Sophiedw]

I thought malic acid was meant to process ammonia

 

[Learner1]

Bh4 seemed to worsen my condition, perhaps I ran out of precursors for neurotransmitters. Any idea why this maybe or what they might be?

A little off topic but thanks anyway.

You might try more 5-MTHF, B12, and C - see attached. However, I also noticed you are likely depleted in glutathione which could be a factor.

I thought malic acid was meant to process ammonia

try citrulline or ornithine.

 

[Sophiedw]

You might try more 5-MTHF, B12, and C - see attached. However, I also noticed you are likely depleted in glutathione which could be a factor.
try citrulline or ornithine.
View attachment 44579

What a fascinating document, thank you so much for sharing learner. It all started a few months ago ( I mean not the whole problem that’s been half a decade now ) but debilitating neurological symptoms. Folate made it the worst it’s been. Bh4 pushed it into a state of being worse and b12 I’ve not really considered (I mean I take it with folate but as folate worsened my condition so profoundly I’ve left it alone for now).

I just don’t understand if I’m essentially being poisoned by ammonia as shown in a multitude of ways on nutraeval and also by blood test at the doctor why none of this works, or even worsens the problems. Bh4 and folate are paradoxical. The only thing that improved it briefly was cysteine so I agree with the glutathione involvement hypothesis, but how does that fit the biochemistry here? Does the folate use my very very limited supply of glutathione precursors? A lot of the hypersensitivity was improved by cystine so that obviously sits near the heart of the issue.

But to say I’m baffled is an understatement.

One thing I have been overlooking is vitamin C, so will increase that as I know it acts
To recycle glutathione.

Do you think whole glutathione would be a gold idea? As to not imbalance my already imbalanced precursors. That’s my next move anyway. But we’ll persevere.

Thank you again for the document I read the whole thing.

My gratitude is profound to you and everyone here - can move this to a new thread if it moves off topic but it is obviously still centred around bh4/malic acid/ammonia.

Best wishes to all

 

[Sophiedw]

Air hunger for me has always been a symptom of B6 deficiency - usually made worse by B6 supplements, but improved by short term, low dose P5P.

I’ve found this is potentially helping. Maybe the malic acid stimulates krebs and urea cycle and alllows for protein synthesis thus placing demand on the b6? A wild guess of course.