Neck pain, spasms CCI or ligament instability?

[Capecodder]

Does anyone have significant muscle spasm issues?

My problems started w Chiro adjustment in 2012. My entire back went into spasm, and finally succumbed months later to medications. No neck pain, but spasms in traps.

My neck worsened in 2017 after prolonged extension looking up. Next assault was my PT doing manual traction (devolved OI after), then recently, using a hard cervical collar. Prior to the collar the back of my neck hurt. After using the collar, my scalenes in the front of my neck are spasming, as well as my pecs. Pain in back of neck is gone.
I have EDS. Had an upright MRI, but was only read by local Neuro.
My issues started w Chiro adjustment. Had no idea I had EDS then.
Next steps? Should I consider prolotherapy?

 

[Diwi9]

You are asking the question de jour. I recommend reviewing these threads which have been very active on the topic.

https://forums.phoenixrising.me/thr...instability-cci-as-a-cause-of-your-cfs.56908/

https://forums.phoenixrising.me/threads/my-me-is-in-remission.76324/

https://forums.phoenixrising.me/threads/tracking-cci-aai-mri-treatment-outcomes.62720/

There are likely a few other threads running on craniocervical instability too.

Yes, I have severe muscles spasms the occur in mostly in my neck and throracic region...my PT believes that my traps start the whole muscle spasm sequence. I have had upright MRI's and was informally DX'd with CCI by Dr. Bolognese. Like you, if I wear a cervical collar (especially longer than 1/2 an hour), I develop worsening spasms in the front of my neck. Muscle fasciculations are most often limited to my left side, in particular, my left pectoral muscle. Unlike you, manual traction has been a Godsend at relieving the spasms. I have also had some success with MJ-based salves (CBD/THC blends), although I do not take any MJ products orally as I haven't found them effective for me.

There have been some discussions on prolotherapy, so you might just use that as a search term to see what others are saying who have tried it or are considering it.

Do you also experience bilateral parasthesia in your hands and arms?

 

[Capecodder]

You are asking the question de jour. I recommend reviewing these threads which have been very active on the topic.

https://forums.phoenixrising.me/thr...instability-cci-as-a-cause-of-your-cfs.56908/

https://forums.phoenixrising.me/threads/my-me-is-in-remission.76324/

https://forums.phoenixrising.me/threads/tracking-cci-aai-mri-treatment-outcomes.62720/

There are likely a few other threads running on craniocervical instability too.

Yes, I have severe muscles spasms the occur in mostly in my neck and throracic region...my PT believes that my traps start the whole muscle spasm sequence. I have had upright MRI's and was informally DX'd with CCI by Dr. Bolognese. Like you, if I wear a cervical collar (especially longer than 1/2 an hour), I develop worsening spasms in the front of my neck. Muscle fasciculations are most often limited to my left side, in particular, my left pectoral muscle. Unlike you, manual traction has been a Godsend at relieving the spasms. I have also had some success with MJ-based salves (CBD/THC blends), although I do not take any MJ products orally as I haven't found them effective for me.

There have been some discussions on prolotherapy, so you might just use that as a search term to see what others are saying who have tried it or are considering it.

Do you also experience bilateral parasthesia in your hands and arms?

Thanks for your reply. Yes, I do have numbness in fingers, hands when my thoracic region gets tight. My scalenes have been in constant spasm for months, since I wore the brace.

How did yours start?

Dry needling was helping, but now it’s causing worse flares.

How were you diagnosed? What stops your spasms? Thanks for the suggestion regarding my. I did use topical cbd oil which helped, but unfortunately worsened my headaches. I am trying another brand that’s weaker.

I am sorry you have these too. They have kept me Homebound.

 

[Capecodder]

Thanks for your reply. Yes, I do have numbness in fingers, hands when my thoracic region gets tight. My scalenes have been in constant spasm for months, since I wore the brace.

How did yours start?

Dry needling was helping, but now it’s causing worse flares.

How were you diagnosed? What stops your spasms? Thanks for the suggestion regarding my. I did use topical cbd oil which helped, but unfortunately worsened my headaches. I am trying another brand that’s weaker.

I am sorry you have these too. They have kept me Homebound.

Sorry, I meant to say when my pectoral (not thoracic) muscles spasm, which happens frequently, I have numbness down the arms.

 

[Diwi9]

@Capecodder - I don't know the cause of my muscle spasms...there was no precipitating event. All I know is that when the muscles along my spine start to spasm, massage makes it worse. For some reason, manual traction helps...but I found a PT who specializes in hypermobility issues she consulted with my doctor about Dr. Bolognese's advice on how to perform the traction.

My PT has encouraged me to try dry needling, and I've been hesitant, so it's good to learn that it worsened your flares, because I had that concern.

I was diagnosed through clinical presentation and flexion/extension upright MRI's. I did about 20 weeks of manual traction PT. At this time my spasms occur less frequently...but I still have flares that can be severe.

It's interesting that you have the numbness too, because that symptom is what started the whole exploration into cervical issues for me.

I hope you find relief. These spasms are one of the most painful aspects of this illness. The product that has worked best for me is by Mary's Medicinals called Muscle Freeze. I'm able to source it OTC in Colorado.

 

[Capecodder]

Did you do a phone consult to get diagnosed? I only have bilateral numbness when my pecs spasm/get tight which happens whenever I use my arms in front of me, or above my head, longer than a few minutes at a time. I think I am developing TOS.

Can I ask what kind of traction is helping you? That’s interesting with your hypermobility. The fact it makes me worse makes be believe my issue is not ligament related.

 

[Capecodder]

Did you do a phone consult to get diagnosed? I only have bilateral numbness when my pecs spasm/get tight which happens whenever I use my arms in front of me, or above my head, longer than a few minutes at a time. I think I am developing TOS.

Can I ask what kind of traction is helping you? That’s interesting with your hypermobility. The fact it makes me worse makes be believe my issue is not ligament related.

I will say that dry needling helped me for a long time. I suspect the reason it’s stopped, and now makes it worse, has to do with change in my meds. What I did find with needling is if one group of muscles got released, another tightened. Do I had to go multiple areas at once.

 

[Diwi9]

I will say that dry needling helped me for a long time. I suspect the reason it’s stopped, and now makes it worse, has to do with change in my meds. What I did find with needling is if one group of muscles got released, another tightened. Do I had to go multiple areas at once.

This is my experience with massage, as one group gets loosened, another tightens, so the pain spreads.

I was diagnosed via a doctor to doctor consultation of my MRI's and through my clinical presentation.

I'm hoping for more research in this area, as my symptom expression makes it hard to believe that a fusion would fix it all. Maybe it will, but am waiting to learn more. While I have some more disabling functions, especially cognitive, I am more physically mobile and active than many from what I can appraise online since pharmaceutical interventions.

 

[Wayne]

@Capecodder, @Diwi9 -- Have either of you heard of or tried Gua Sha? I developed some serious muscle spasm problems after taking a single dose of an anti-nausea medication in Feb. 2018. I've been trying numerous things since then, including learning self-acupuncture, cupping, and Gua Sha. Just doing acupuncture points on my brainstem several times a week has given me much more flexibility there.

But the Gua Sha and cupping have been helpful as well. Below is a snippet FROM THIS WEBSITE which goes into a bit of detail about Gua Sha and what it can all do. For me, it's an experiment in progress. One of the first things I noticed after doing my first session on myself (a lot around my neck and temples) was that my Eustachian Tubes were functioning better. I slept much better than normal that night as well.

What Are the Benefits of Gua Sha?​

"Full body gua sha can benefit the skin, but actually is more about promoting circulation in the muscles and other deep tissues. We use it for injuries, muscle spasms generally, inflammation, mobility, and long-standing chronic tension that's causing either local pain or organ dysfunction," explains Rubinstein. Similar to foam rolling, it can increase flexibility and joint mobility, but gua sha is more targeted and can reach both smaller and larger joints that aren't as easily accessible otherwise.​

 

[Diwi9]

@Wayne - No, I haven't tried it, but watched some videos and it looks interesting. Thank you for sharing.