'Natural' antiretrovirals?

[Forebearance]

I've been taking Lauricidin for ten months now and I still really like it. I can only tolerate one pearl every three days. I take it with a dose of my "seven precious mushroom extract" which is supposed to increase NK cell function. The two things seem to have a synergistic effect.

The days I take those things, I feel an incrreased sense of well-being. If I try to take them more often, I get too inflamed, hypersenstive to mold toxins and chemicals, etc. So it feels like the Lauricidin is killing something.

 

[slayadragon]

People get such strong reactions to Lauricidin that I really wonder if it indeed might be killing the retrovirus(es).

If that's the case, is there any reason to think that taking antiretroviral drugs would be a better choice?

The main limitation to taking both ARV drugs and Lauricidin seems to be not effectiveness (though that also might be an issue) but the extent to which people can tolerate the "inflammatory flare."

Is there any reason to think that the extent to which people get an inflammatory flare as a result of killing a set number of viruses ("bang for the buck") would be less on ARV drugs than on Lauricidin?

Regardless, I think I'm going to try it.

Best, Lisa

 

[soulfeast]

Speaking of the 7 precious mushrooms formula and beta glucan can be added to that .. I was clobbered on the sick buildings list for suggesting the use of beta glucans because beta glucan are a nasty by product of mold. Any thought son that? Mushroom formulas were not welcomed for discussion either.

 

[free at last]

This is all very interesting. Nothing really to help the discussion. but just wanted to say ive been saying for sometime about the benefits of food and recovery ( infact i talk about it on my introduce yourself when i first joined ) so its very encouraging seeing science catch up with these ideas. I didnt really know back when i was terribly ill, what foods would help the condition the most. so i just ate huge amounts of veg many different types, anything that looked healthy. including using olive oil. onion, garlic ( raw ) in time i slowly got better. often i think im fine. but start to get relapses 16 years into this.

just had two recently. seems to happen when i get sure of myself, and think like a well person does. just to get slapped in the face again.

I will start eating like this again, if i go down hill ( theres early signs that could be happening recently GREAT )
very interested in the olive leaf extract. still waiting for XMRV testing. But the illness started with sudden onset viral ( feeling ) flu luke attacks that i never really fully recovered from. ( EVEN IF AT TIMES I THINK I HAVE ) which is easy when one is well for a extended time.

So i will continue to think that anything natural thats shown to combats viruses, maybe some that havent even really been looked into properly yet. ( and lets not forget the bodys extra strength with all those vitamins ) actually making our bodys, better fighters. olive leaf extract sounds very interesting, i wonder if the oil is as good ? anything to help stall relapses, seem to be getting PEM again quite strongly recently. GREAT
Good discussion everyone. really eat as much as what appears healthy as you can tolerate. the effects take time, possibly months. but it really does help im convinced. and have been for years

 

[mojoey]

Add Lauricidin to the list of things I took for at least 6 months before my positive XMRV test. I was taking one full scoop (3g, each pellet is 3mg). It didn't make a dent in my symptoms, but seemed helpful when I had acute infectious

 

[markmc20001]

In the past I have taken Lauricidan and the next morning I had a really unique oder to my BM. Whatever was causing that smell seemed to be a sign of improved body fundtioning. and I had some really amazing days about that same time. If that ever happens again I will definitely take note of what the heck I ate drank and took in the way of vitamins for sure to reprodice that .....However most of the time it seems as though Lauricidan doens't do a thing.

 

[Forebearance]

Good luck, Lisa.

Soulfeast, I did have qualms about trying something made from mushrooms, but I'm glad I did. There may be other things that also increase NK cell function.

Mojoey, I used Lauricidin last fall to get over the swine flu, so I agree with you about it being helpful for acute infections. Maybe you will be able to tolerate ARV drugs really well, since you seem less sensitive to things.

 

[alice1]

I take 2 teaspoons of virgin coconut oil daily which has both monolaurin/lauricidin in it.I started with a higher dose but the die-off was too strong.(candida)
I seem to be doing ok at this dose and will up it to 3 teaspoons in a few weeks.It's also very good for heart,raising heathly cholesterol along with the anti-viral, anti-bacterial and candida.
If you try this make sure it's virgin and hasn't been heated.

 

[leaves]

hey guys just a heads up "die off" can also mean intolerance to salicylates (coconut oil is like pure salicylates) so if you have immediate nausea, rashes etc dont attribute it to die off immediately.

 

[slayadragon]

Speaking of the 7 precious mushrooms formula and beta glucan can be added to that .. I was clobbered on the sick buildings list for suggesting the use of beta glucans because beta glucan are a nasty by product of mold. Any thought son that? Mushroom formulas were not welcomed for discussion either.

I'm of the impression that the 1,3 beta glucans are fairly strongly pro inflammatory. This may be part of why they are helpful in killing pathogens, but nonetheless counterproductive when cytokines already are out of control.

It's interesting to hear that Forebearance (who practices mold avoidance) has found the mushrooms to be useful. This may be one of those things (like Valcyte and likely antiretrovirals) that ME/CFSers really can't take if they're in a bad environment.....but might benefit from if they take it cautiously in a good environment.

It would be my inclination to suggest that someone in the early days of biotoxin avoidance let the system calm down and do some detox before trying anything to address any pathogens. (Things to address candida might be an exception.)

I'm getting the feeling that actively killing off these pathogens is necessary to get the biotoxin reactivity to go down and regain system strength, but it feels to me more like something that should be part of "Step 2" or "Step 3" of the journey.

I could be wrong about all of this, of course. It's just how I'm seeing it at the moment.

Best, Lisa

 

[L'engle]

I take 2 teaspoons of virgin coconut oil daily which has both monolaurin/lauricidin in it.I started with a higher dose but the die-off was too strong.(candida)
I seem to be doing ok at this dose and will up it to 3 teaspoons in a few weeks.It's also very good for heart,raising heathly cholesterol along with the anti-viral, anti-bacterial and candida.
If you try this make sure it's virgin and hasn't been heated.

I've taken small amounts of VCO every day for over a year. I think it is good for keeping away bacterial co-infections like candida.

After getting rid of candida, I tried taking a higher dose (3 tbsp per day) for about six weeks, and had what I think must be a die off reaction for the first month or so. I like to think I was having a herx of a retrovirus, but I have no proof of such. I was sicker than before on the higher does. After a while that went away but I didn't notice improvements to my symptoms beyond that, so I went back down to the smaller doses.

In light of what I've been reading about antiretrovirals, for example that it can take 6 months or more to start feeling better, I wonder if I just didn't give it enough time. I continue to take small amounts and get weak, cold and angry when I try to go on a higher dose. I just don't have the patience to stick that out at the moment. My WBC did go up during the time that I was taking a larger dose.

Interesting what someone posted here about salicylates in coconut oil. I hadn't known that!

 

[lpgautogas]

Nice post... interesting !

 

[alice1]

L'engle that's exactly what I experience when I up my dose to almost everything.
A few days ago I upped my curccumin and I felt like hitting people.lol. I was so angry but thankfully it disappeared by the end of the day.
This seems to be how I deal with die-off or if I introduce a new product that has potential for killing the bad stuff..Thanks for your post leaves I didn't know that but after a day or two I seem to adjust well so I'm thinking it's die-off.

 

[Hip]

L'engle that's exactly what I experience when I up my dose to almost everything.
A few days ago I upped my curccumin and I felt like hitting people.lol. I was so angry but thankfully it disappeared by the end of the day.
This seems to be how I deal with die-off or if I introduce a new product that has potential for killing the bad stuff..Thanks for your post leaves I didn't know that but after a day or two I seem to adjust well so I'm thinking it's die-off.

Curcumin often produces aggression in people at higher doses.

 

[foggyfroggy]

OLE

Just another cautionary note about starting new things slowly. I can personally attest to the fact that some people are very sensitive to OLE - I (TMI alert) puked violently every 15 minutes for several hours when I tried it. Didn't connect the two, and took some more a few days later. Repeat.

 

[alice1]

That's so amazing about the curcumin..I was living testament to that..I'm up to 3 caps daily and thankfully don't have that impulse anymore.Also I add some pepper to an empty cap it's suppose to help the curcumin do what it's suppose to.
I haven't been able to find any info regarding the coconut oil and salicylates...leaves would you please post a site or direct me to find that.
Thankyou

 

[Frank]

I'm totally not into the sience of viruses, so correct me if i'm wrong?

Could this natural supplement from raspberries inhibit Integrase and in that way inhibit retroviral replication? (If this is not a scam..)

Watch from minute 1.30
[video=youtube;dhrEEh1d7Zc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhrEEh1d7Zc[/video]

http://www.balancedhealthtoday.com/ellagica.html


This is no advertisement, this could be a complete scam, that's why i'm asking.

omerbasket comments:
I found only one study about it. But that study is somewhat interesting, because it shows efficacy of ellagic acid "for inhibition of DNA-modifying enzymes", also against MoMLVs.
This is the study:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...tool=pmcentrez
And this is the table which shows inhibition of MoMLVs and other viruses: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...5796/table/T1/

I wonder what you guys think about that study. I also wonder - How do you convert IC50 to EC50 - or in other words, if you know the dosage of substance that is efficient in vitro, how would you turn it to the dosage that would be efficient in vivo?

It seems like ellagic acid can also be found in pomegranate: http://www.phytochemicals.info/research/pomegranate-metabolism.php

 

[Enid]

Many thanks for posting this Frank, I'm certainly going to switch fruits and try.

 

[leaves]

in vitro and in vivo..
biiiiiiiiig differences. Unfortunately many things that are effective in vitro (in the lab) show no, or almost no effect in vivo (in the body). enzymes, body processes, availability to organs etc all can cause the effectiveness to not uphold in the body.

 

[Cloud]

in vitro and in vivo..
biiiiiiiiig differences. Unfortunately many things that are effective in vitro (in the lab) show no, or almost no effect in vivo (in the body). enzymes, body processes, availability to organs etc all can cause the effectiveness to not uphold in the body.

Not to mention toxicty potential. Bleach is a good example.....very effective killing pathogens in vitro, but very toxic in vivo (although some on MMS would dispute that, it makes the point).