Myalgic Encephalomyelitis is clear to see in the blood

[Oliver3]

Many people have metabolic syndrome without feeling like they can't stand up.
I agree tho that tgis should be chased up.
I wonder if the ' normal ' parameters dknt apply to us. There is definitely a weakness in the collagen.
The fingerprint or lack of is likely diffused around the body . The integrity of mitochondria, mast cells, liver n cardio cells. I reckon they're systemically weaker.
I just hope stem cells or crispr technology steps in. There's something wrong with us!

 

[Treeman]

I have frequent urination, dehedration, always thirsty

This tangent reminded me of the UK actor, Michael Crawford, dehydration and how he got ME CFS whilst working in a large rubber suit but eventually recovered.

“Night after night on stage, the suit meant that I'd sweat profusely, to the point where I was losing all the essential minerals and nutrients from my body. In January 2005, I went into a kind of physical meltdown. I collapsed with what I thought was flu, but it turned out to be something much more difficult to diagnose.

Teams of doctors were called in to try to find out why I was so completely exhausted, depleted and unable to return to work. I had brain and body scans, and virtually every test known to man before eventually discovering that I was suffering from the post-viral condition myalgic encephalopathy (ME).“

https://meassociation.org.uk/2011/0...alk-michael-crawford-talks-to-the-daily-mail/

 

[Viala]

There may be many semi normal and some abnormal factors coming from 1 trait. So for instance if liver dysfunction is present there could be many things that are abnormal but not causing symptoms but a couple that do. I think looking for traits is a good strategy and could explain why different patients have different symptoms. As I said these things need to be looked at on an individual basis. Some may have 1 trait others 3. That would explain why some are very badly affected, others less so.

In the end individual testing is all we've got. The question is what is the cause of these dysfunctions and are they the cause of ME or a downstream effect, or something totally independent. Some of my lab tests were ok even though they shouldn't be, because I had clear symptoms of what I was testing for. Something is definitely slipping through the cracks. So many variables here. I wonder what results would they have with such a large group but with OAT, I think they'd have more success with that.

 

[Oliver3]

Exactly right. We're more prone to this stuff. Why? And it affects us more than ' normies' who have similar constellation of symptoms.
The dysfunction is smthg really integral to our make up. And we're deffo not typically made human beings.
I'm convinced of that with the sheer amount of people I've met or observed who have this condition.
I don't know about you guys but I could pick cfs patients out of a line up ( and no not cos they're in bed). The disease Is so apparent in them

 

[Wishful]

Although in this disease there should be something visible in our blood,

I still think it's possible even for severe ME patients to show no abnormalities in the blood, aside from some that would occur in non-ME patients who had similar lifestyle limitations. Would a disease caused by nerve signal dysfunction necessarily show a signal in the blood? Likewise for many possible brain cell disorders.

As you point out, there are also many possibilities for the methodology to fail to find existing patterns. Rate-of-change abnormalities might be in the data, since some people would be at an abnormal level of a factor at testing time, but that will just be dismissed as noise.

There will be a lot of variation (noise) in blood samples. People with a lot of whole grains in their diet will show different levels of factors in their blood than one with a highly processed food diet. Lots of exercise vs little. Stressed vs non-stressed. Hard to find subtle patterns in noisy data.

I would like to know more about the signals of liver disease and insulin resistance. Is the typical PWME going to show elevated levels of these signals? Did they average the results, so that a few individuals with highly elevated levels skewed the average? We'll have to wait for the full paper.

 

[andyguitar]

In the end individual testing is all we've got.

Testing for cholesterol is fairly easy. One other thing I noticed in the paper... they mention "low blood choline".

 

[Oliver3]

Testing for cholesterol is fairly easy. One other thing I noticed in the paper... they mention "low blood choline".

Did you see jarred younger post on low choline being a key finding in culf wa r syndrome.
Organophosphates are seen as the culprit.
But why only affect a certain number

 

[Dysfunkion]

I still think it's possible even for severe ME patients to show no abnormalities in the blood, aside from some that would occur in non-ME patients who had similar lifestyle limitations. Would a disease caused by nerve signal dysfunction necessarily show a signal in the blood? Likewise for many possible brain cell disorders.

As you point out, there are also many possibilities for the methodology to fail to find existing patterns. Rate-of-change abnormalities might be in the data, since some people would be at an abnormal level of a factor at testing time, but that will just be dismissed as noise.

There will be a lot of variation (noise) in blood samples. People with a lot of whole grains in their diet will show different levels of factors in their blood than one with a highly processed food diet. Lots of exercise vs little. Stressed vs non-stressed. Hard to find subtle patterns in noisy data.

I would like to know more about the signals of liver disease and insulin resistance. Is the typical PWME going to show elevated levels of these signals? Did they average the results, so that a few individuals with highly elevated levels skewed the average? We'll have to wait for the full paper.

Yeah see you're likely going to find more common complications but its all going to be noise because everyone has different lifestyles. Some people can't work at all and have a much more physical presentation that prevents them from doing much more than laying down with very clean diets. Others can but have different PEM presentations that physically harm us but we can push through but it gets really ugly and more neurological dysfunction oriented with more chaotic diets because there is less in our control like my case. Like someone else said there are other very ill people out there with whole constellations of problems with their liver, blood, and immune systems but don't get ME/CFS.

I based on my lifetime of experiences feel like its more direct neurological signaling oriented because otherwise all the differences and wide variety of people that wind up with this wouldnt make much sense. It feels more immune oriented though in what is a factor in the root of what happens. Most of my triggers are in my immune system and in the case I over exert cognitively first present with immune dysfunction.