My Understanding of CFS/ME and How To Heal

[Undisclosed]

@Kina. Very true. But I think that it's clear from this thread that there a lot of members on the case. There are buttonalso members like Tammy who may not agree that cmt12 is pushing a 'bizarre and insulting theory'. Doesn't she deserve respect, too?

I was only making light of it. It wasn't intended to cause offense.

I am not disrespecting Tammy at all. It has nothing to do with Tammy. I happen to enjoy Tammy's posts and wouldn't dream of disrespecting her. I find the theory this member has put forward both bizarre and insulting to people with ME.

I would like to know if this person has ME and if they do I would like to explore with them how their theory relates to ME. It would seem to me that claiming meditation can cure ME requires a bit of discussion. This stinks of the CBT psychobabble. I think meditation is wonderful for relieving stress related symptoms but a cure?????

If you feel I am disrespecting a member then you need to click on the report rather than taking the thread off- topic.

 

[Scarecrow]

I am not disrespecting Tammy at all. It has nothing to do with Tammy. I happen to enjoy Tammy's posts and wouldn't dream of disrespecting her. I find the theory this member has put forward both bizarre and insulting to people with ME.

I would like to know if this person has ME and if they do I would like to explore with them how their theory relates to ME. It would seem to me that claiming meditation can cure ME requires a bit of discussion. This stinks of the CBT psychobabble. I think meditation is wonderful for relieving stress related symptoms but a cure?????

If you feel I am disrespecting a member then you need to click on the report rather than taking the thread off- topic.

I agree with much of what you have written. I find it bizarre myself but I'm not insulted by it and clearly Tammy doesn't even find it bizarre. Perhaps this is forum policy that I'm not aware of but I'd rather call someone on what I perceive to be their BS than have them run out of town.

 

[lansbergen]

Is it that far fetched though if we observe how nature works and how self correcting it is to say that our bodies can heal themselves if we set the right conditions for it?

The body can heal itself if it gets the right tools to do so but meditation is not and your interpretation of animal behavior does not help either.

 

[cmt12]

The body can heal itself if it gets the right tools to do so but meditation is not and your interpretation of animal behavior does not help either.

The thing is though conventional wisdom has no explanation for what I've done/am doing - how I've, through conscious intention and awareness, caused these imprints to surface from nothing, with no stressor to produce physical symptoms in my body. And then to have them release one by one to eventually experience that big release, only to suppress it and have to start all over again.

If you guys go through the experiences that I've gone through then you would be aware of the same things. That is where faith comes in. I'm not asking anybody to believe anything based on faith. I don't recommend that at all. Faith is the suspension of your current perspective to investigate a new one through experience.

This is why I mentioned in those early posts that unless you've experienced certain things and become aware of certain things, then what I'm talking about is not believable.

 

[TigerLilea]

To answer your question, I haven't gone out to get a diagnosis for the reasons I stated but I know enough to say I could get a CFS diagnosis and I have similar symptoms to all of you.

So for all you know, you could possibly have a totally treatable illness that has absolutely nothing to do with ME/CFS. Until you've gone through testing to rule out all other illnesses, you can't possibly know whether or not you have CFS. You are just wild-ass guessing.

 

[Mij]

I hope you guys really take the time to read everything I have said to understand what I'm saying. Based on my experience and interpretation, I reject the existing paradigm that says there are all these chronic illnesses each with their own root cause.

It's like if three people have a cold and one is dealing with more of a sore throat, another is dealing more with coughing, and the third experiences more of a stuffy nose. We don't say that they have 3 different issues - they all have a cold. I'm claiming the same thing about chronic illnesses, which is a big claim I realize.

Is it that far fetched though if we observe how nature works and how self correcting it is to say that our bodies can heal themselves if we set the right conditions for it? To say that all these negative DNA mutations are not just "how it is"? That we need to create all these synthetic replicas through pharmacy of the things in our bodies for each separate illness, especially considering how complex of a system the brain is and the fact that we haven't cured one chronic illness through pharmacy yet?

I wouldn't be spreading this information publicly unless I was sure. I know that means nothing to you guys but hopefully you can at least believe when I say my intentions here are to help.

To answer your question, I haven't gone out to get a diagnosis for the reasons I stated but I know enough to say I could get a CFS diagnosis and I have similar symptoms to all of you.

If this were the case there would meditation centres and Whole Food stores set up instead of doctors offices and hospitals.

 

[SOC]

I agree with much of what you have written. I find it bizarre myself but I'm not insulted by it and clearly Tammy doesn't even find it bizarre. Perhaps this is forum policy that I'm not aware of but I'd rather call someone on what I perceive to be their BS than have them run out of town.

The question becomes whether we want PR to lose it's identity as a forum for, and in support of people with ME. People coming here with no knowledge of the illness only to push their personal theory about health or chronic illness in general dilutes our focus and leads us toward being a general health board. I suppose it gets down to a question of what we want PR to be.

Dr Edwards and other non-patients here are careful to keep their focus on ME. They understand the illness in detail and discuss exactly how their ideas apply to ME patients specifically.

 

[cmt12]

If this were the case there would meditation centres and Whole Food stores set up instead of doctors offices and hospitals.

You're standing outside and can't tell how deep the water is. I'm inside and telling you it takes a long time and a lot of effort to get to the bottom because I've been there.

Look, things are way too emotional right now and there is no productive communication happening so I'm going to bow out for awhile.

 

[lansbergen]

You're standing outside and can't tell how deep the water is.

You are standing outside

 

[Mij]

You're standing outside and can't tell how deep the water is. I'm inside and telling you it takes a long time and a lot of effort to get to the bottom because I've been there.

Look, things are way too emotional right now and there is no productive communication happening so I'm going to bow out for awhile.

No actually. I belong to an ME community where I can share like minded views and experiences about my illness.

 

[Sushi]

...I'm going to bow out for awhile.

Thank you! Much appreciated.

Your tone comes across as patronizing. It seems that you think you are introducing new ideas here--you are not!

Without a diagnosis of ME/CFS, you are standing outside. I truly doubt that you have any idea what we are living with and what spiritual and other means we have explored and found to cope with it.

Sushi

 

[WillowJ]

You're standing outside and can't tell how deep the water is. I'm inside and telling you it takes a long time and a lot of effort to get to the bottom because I've been there.

you might take some time trying to understand others' perspectives yourself.

You can't just come someplace and say hi, I have the path to enlightenment for you all. That doesn't go over very well.

 

[WillowJ]

I happen to enjoy Tammy's posts and wouldn't dream of disrespecting her.

same from me

 

[cmt12]

I apologize for any offenses. I mean it.

 

[Scarecrow]

@cmt12 I would also like to apologise to you. I referred to you in a rude way and I'm sorry for it.

 

[Tammy]

Since my name has been mentioned I guess first off.......I will say that I do not in any way feel disrespected. I knew that this thread would set off some fireworks. I guess that because of this long and many times hellish journey I've been on.........whenever someone comes up with something on Their Journey that is working for them no matter how bizarre it may or may not sound I am happy for them and I think cmt12 just wanted to share his journey. I did find the material and theory interesting.........it doesn't mean that I think he has found THE CURE.............he is finding his way like we all are.

 

[WillowJ]

I was also rude in my manner, and I'm sorry.

 

[Hip]

@@cmt12

Are you aware of history and politics of ME/CFS?

Are you aware of the much reviled "Wessely School" group of psychiatrists, who deny that ME/CFS has physical causes, and have forced onto the world their idea that ME/CFS is "all in the mind", ie, that the disease of ME/CFS is maintained merely because a patient holds the belief that they are ill.

The crazy view of these Wessely School psychiatrists is that if you can remove this belief that you are ill from the mind, then your ME/CFS illness will magically disappear. Of course, these psychiatrists have never been able to demonstrate any such belief-modifying cures, but they still cling on to their "all in the mind" ideas of ME/CFS etiology.

Now, if these "all in the mind" psychiatrists were just some little-known wacky group in an obscure university somewhere, their views would be of little significance. However, unfortunately the Wessely School wield enormous influence in government and medical circles, and because of their ideas, much of the medical profession has in the past, and still today, dismissed ME/CFS as a disease which is "all in the mind", and so doctors will offer little help to patients, no matter how sick.

Disability insurance companies also love the view of ME/CFS being "all in the mind", because that means they don't have to make any disability payments to sick patients. Sothat saves them billions.

Needless to say, most ME/CFS patients, and most researchers looking at the biological causes of ME/CFS, do not have much truck with these "all in the mind" views of ME/CFS. Well, that's an understatement: in fact most ME/CFS patients abhor these "all in the mind" views, and some patients would like to see the Wessely School psychiatrists put up against the wall and shot!



So now you understand a little bit about the background politics of the "all in the mind" view of ME/CFS, you will perhaps appreciate why your very similar idea of "imprints" causing ME/CFS is getting such a bad reception here.

Please do read more about the appalling effect that the Wessely School's "all in the mind" view of ME/CFS has had on proper scientific research of ME/CFS, on proper medical treatment for ME/CFS patients, and on appropriate disability payments. You will soon realize that this "all in the mind" view has devastated every single area of ME/CFS.

 

[cmt12]

@@cmt12

Are you aware of history and politics of ME/CFS?

I am aware of it. But while they are on the outside looking in, I have been dealing with this with a long list of physical symptoms for 6+ years. That is why it didn't make sense to me that people were trying to group me with them. Only an outsider could possibly believe that the root cause is a delusioned belief.

If you're trying to say that the issue is so sensitive and emotional that anything talking about the mind will immediately be rejected by many due to the politics and mistreatment, then I hear you and I accept that.

 

[jeff_w]

What I am claiming is that disease occurs from the imbalance caused by the imprints.

Wait a sec... Which disease? You know the cause of ME/CFS...?

So what you seem to be saying is: You know the cause of all diseases, and they all have psychological origins.

That's a bold claim @cmt12 !

I am claiming we can release the imprints by unrepressing them through meditation.

No doubt meditation can be very helpful for some. As a cure, though? If that were the case, ME/CFS would have already been eradicated.

Meditation is more of a relaxation method that can help a person with metacognition, spirituality, etc. It can be awesome for some people who are ill, but I've also seen some people on this board say that their minds don't "meditate" the way they used to, due to brainfog/exhaustion/etc.