My recovery story

[Recovery Soon]

Hi Recovery Soon,

I feel for your ordeal...I understand not being thrilled about the possibility of more expense, surgery, etc.

When you mentioned not being able to find anyone in NYC, I remembered that when I was researching cavitation surgery a few weeks ago after an exchange with Wayne, I ran across someone who performs it in Connecticut. Actually, his office comes up first if you google "cavitation surgery." He is in Fairfield, CT. - I don't know if he is any good at all, or what his practice is like. There's a goodsized website for his practice. He could be terrible for all I know, so I hope there's a way to check around and see if anyone in your area knows more about him. But maybe he's decent, and not too far away for you. Anyway, here's the link: http://www.wholebodymed.com/contactus.php

Good luck!

Thanks for the info. Maybe I'll call. I'm skeptical in part about the dental/disease connection because my Dentist does not believe there is a connection and she is Natural, Mercury Free and outstanding.

However, getting one if these scans can't hurt, and I could decide after it if I really felt there was a realistic chance of a cost;y, controversial dental procedure realistically helping with my immune system. WIth all of the work I've had done, nearly every tooth in my mouth could be suspect.

And irony of ironies- they look perfect.

 

[Tree]

Ian, what was the surgery like?

I've been wondering what the surgery itself is like -- length of time, whether or not local anesthetic is all that is needed, how long the surgery lasts, recovery time afterward, etc. How does it compare, in trauma, to an extraction? It's so great to hear about the significant healing effect for you. I'm just wondering how debilitating the surgery itself is, and what the recovery period is like.

 

[jeffrez]

There is a lot of controversy on the subject, no denying that, but root canals actually are probably pretty safe. They're filled with extremely toxic substances like eugenol, but I think that - like the mercury - once it goes in your mouth it becomes nontoxic. The FDA says it's all very safe, and they would never be able to say that if it weren't true. The ADA says so, too, and they're all experts and dentists themselves, so they should know. They have no reason to mislead anyone.

I would say that if anyone has root canals, they probably should just leave them alone. I think in cases where it might be a problem, if you spray some pesticides on your lawn it will help distract you from and neutralize any unreasonable concerns you might have about root canals. The pesticides themselves are safe, too, so no need to worry about that. The government and the people who make money selling them tell us so, and they have no reason to lie about something like that. We're talking about the public health here, and they take that very seriously. So give it a try - the experts say it can't hurt to try, and it might even help a whole lot. You can buy the stuff in your local home and garden center -- it's all perfectly legal. So how harmful can it be?

 

[Mij]

There is a lot of controversy on the subject, no denying that, but root canals actually are probably pretty safe. They're filled with extremely toxic substances like eugenol, but I think that - like the mercury - once it goes in your mouth it becomes nontoxic. The FDA says it's all very safe, and they would never be able to say that if it weren't true. The ADA says so, too, and they're all experts and dentists themselves, so they should know. They have no reason to mislead anyone.

I would say that if anyone has root canals, they probably should just leave them alone. I think in cases where it might be a problem, if you spray some pesticides on your lawn it will help distract you from and neutralize any unreasonable concerns you might have about root canals. The pesticides themselves are safe, too, so no need to worry about that. The government and the people who make money selling them tell us so, and they have no reason to lie about something like that. We're talking about the public health here, and they take that very seriously. So give it a try - the experts say it can't hurt to try, and it might even help a whole lot. You can buy the stuff in your local home and garden center -- it's all perfectly legal. So how harmful can it be?

Eugenol is not toxic, it obtained from clove oil and other natural substances. Eugenol is mixed with zinc oxide which is actually SOOTHING to the pulp.
I learned a long time ago from reading these forums that you can change anyones mind even with all the evidence that it is not harmful.
I had all my amalgams removed(my decision) and the biological dentist who did the work gave me all the scare talk about mercury. whatever. I paid extra to see him and it would not have made a difference seeing a regular dentist.

 

[jeffrez]

Eugenol is not toxic, it obtained from clove oil and other natural substances. Eugenol is mixed with zinc oxide which is actually SOOTHING to the pulp.
I learned a long time ago from reading these forums that you can change anyones mind even with all the evidence that it is not harmful.
I had all my amalgams removed(my decision) and the biological dentist who did the work gave me all the scare talk about mercury. whatever. I paid extra to see him and it would not have made a difference seeing a regular dentist.

You're right - it's completely safe! A quick search even of wikipedia says it's toxic - but what do they know? Anyone can add any information they want to that!

Eugenol is hepatotoxic, meaning it may cause damage to the liver.[9][10]

Overdose is possible, causing a wide range of symptoms from blood in the patient's urine, to convulsions, diarrhea, nausea, unconsciousness, dizziness, or rapid heartbeat.[11] A 2-year old boy nearly died after taking between 5 and 10 ml., according to a published 1993 report.[12]

Some fragrances should be avoided by people with eugenol allergy.[13] An example would be Kouros eau de toilette by Yves Saint Laurent.[14] Eugenol may cause allergic contact dermatitis.[15]

What the hell does anyone need a liver for? These scientists and scientific studies saying it's toxic are all just a lot of scare tactics. Drink your fluoride water, eat your hormone meat and pesticide vegetables, and smoke your clove cigarettes. Clove cigarettes never hurt anyone. It's all perfectly safe, and good for you.

Thanks for helping to clear that up.

 

[Ian]

I've been wondering what the surgery itself is like -- length of time, whether or not local anesthetic is all that is needed, how long the surgery lasts, recovery time afterward, etc. How does it compare, in trauma, to an extraction? It's so great to hear about the significant healing effect for you. I'm just wondering how debilitating the surgery itself is, and what the recovery period is like.

Well, extraction is a lot quicker. Cavitation surgery you can feel a guy scraping around with a sharp tool in your bone. It's not pleasant at all. My first surgery took 2.5 hours, but I had both my lower back molars removed and both sides of my mouth worked on. The infection from my horizontally impacted wisdom tooth had destroyed the bone under both my back molars, partially on my right side, and totally on my right side. Infact the necrosis on my left side spread pretty far. Healing isn't too bad, the site it stitched up. I was eating soup for a while, but it soon heals up. I was pretty ill though after the surgery, it's like whatever you were suffering with before gets intensified for a week as the surgery seems to unleash the toxins on your system.

When I had my horizontally impacted wisdom tooth extracted (really cut up and removed in small chunks) that was unbelievable pain. In fact I've never experienced anything like that before. I had 5 shots or maybe 6 with anaesthetic and it just didn't work at all, or barely. And I was left with an enormous amount of swelling after the opperation. Throw in the fact he tried to stitch it over but there wasn't enough gum, so I was just left with an open hole for months, which the dentist stuffed with some oil of cloves .. From that I developed a nightmare cavitation as it just never healed.

I found out from research later that anaesthetic doesn't work if the area is highly acidic. It can become acidic from infection. The acidic/alkaline thing is also interesting, because chronic cavitation patients (and cancer patients) frequently have abnormal saliva and urine pHs. pH test is one of the cheapest tests you could ever do. Don't know why doctors don't do it.

 

[sela]

if you have your root canals removed, what do you replace them with? if you leave a gap, all your teeth will move around and get crooked.

 

[Wayne]

if you have your root canals removed, what do you replace them with? if you leave a gap, all your teeth will move around and get crooked.

Hi Sela,

You can replace it with an implant, or a dental bridge (see picture below). With a bridge, the two teeth adjacent to the extracted tooth have to be drilled down as if you were getting a crown placed. Instead of a crown however, each tooth serves as an "anchor" for the missing tooth that's being replaced. Generally speaking, a one-tooth extraction needs a "3-tooth" bridge. I myself had two adjacent teeth extracted which required a 4-tooth bridge. I ended up paying about $4,000 for it, or about $1,000/tooth. Very pricey!

An implant does not require adjacent teeth to be ground down. If I remember correctly, they cost about $1,000. But they can be more difficult than bridges, and some of them can fail. One of the links that was posted on this thread was to an article regarding the high failure rate of implants if they're next to a current root-canaled tooth, which can easily be infected (which apparently causes the failure).

Another consideration with implants is they're made of metal (titanium). Some people can tolerate metal, but I myself can't, so I didn't feel that was a viable option for me. All this stuff is hard and tedious to sort out, and expensive as hell. Fortunately, I feel my dental issues are fairly stabilized at this time. However, I can see things becoming more complicated if I discover I have further cavitation issues to address.

Wayne

 

[Ian]

Have a read of this.

 

[Wayne]

Weston Price

Anybody who does research into the safety/hazards of root canals will very soon run across the dental researcher Weston Price.

Wikipedia on Weston Price

Here's just a bit about some of the remarkable things he uncovered in his many years of research. I believe 14 of those years were as head of research for the American Dental Association.
.............

Dr. Weston Price, a renowned dental research specialist, observed many patients with crippling degenerative diseases who did not respond to treatment. He suspected infected root canal teeth to be the culprit. He developed a testing method that revealed the presence of infection in a tooth. By implanting a root filled tooth from a patient under the skin of a laboratory animal, usually a rabbit, he found that in almost every case the animal would develop the same disease as the patient, lose weight, and often times would die.

Later, Dr. Price found he could embed small pieces of the root instead of the entire tooth, or pulverize the teeth and inject the powder and cause the same results. Eventually, he found he could culture the bacteria found in a root filled tooth and inject the toxins from it into the laboratory animal and reproduce the disease from the toxins alone. It is important to note that when he implanted sterile objects or uninfected natural teeth, such as those removed for orthodontic purposes, no adverse health effects resulted.

Dr. Price found many types of degenerative diseases, including endocarditis, other heart diseases, kidney and bladder diseases, arthritis, rheumatism, mental diseases, lung problems and other degenerative diseases could be transferred to laboratory animals. He also found that a large percentage of patients recovered from their illnesses after the root filled teeth were extracted.

The primary bacteria in root canals found by Dr. Price included streptococcus, staphylococcus, and spirochetes. He found 90 percent of bacteria in the teeth that produced the patients' acute diseases in the animals were streptococcus, and 65.5 percent of the time they belonged to the fecalis family. Bacteriologists today have confirmed that Price's discoveries were accurate.
......................................

The above was just an introduction to this article:

Root Canal Cover-Up Exposed

 

[Wayne]

Dr. Mercola on Root Canals

Here's a good article on root canals by Dr. Mercola. I thought his comments about nonreactive metal implants made of zirconium were interesting.

Wayne
....................................................

By Dr. Mercola

Many people have had questions about root canals so I thought it would be wise to repost this article. It was an interview with Dr. George Meinig, who was dentist and leader in teaching people about the dangers of root canals. He wrote the book Root Canal Cover Up.

Because I first became aware of this information in the early '90s I was able to avoid having any root canals. I elected to have three teeth extracted and now have two bridges to replace those teeth.

At the time that was my best option, as I believe that metal implants should be avoided. However in the last few years non-reactive metal implants made from zirconium have become available and that is what I would use now if I had to have an alternative to a root canal.

The Rest of this Article is at This Link:

Why You Should Avoid Root Canals Like the Plague

P.S. You may have to subscribe to his newsletter in order to read the full article.

 

[Dainty]

I'm following this topic with interest. CFS or not, anything that hinders our health is worth considering and taking care of.

I've had no root canals or extractions, but I do have two pretty bad cavities that have been festering for a few years that i'm not yet sure what I'm going to do with. On one of them about 1/3 of the tooth is grey. It is not painful. The other one is painful and (possible TMI) when I floss it the odor of decay is unmistakable and very gross. If I can't manage to floss for a day or two it becomes very bad.

I don't need anyone to tell me how bad that is, how it can be contributing to my illness, etc. I don't need anyone ordering me to do this or that. There are several different major issues I am dealing with right now and believe it or not this is a lower priority.

It does seem like a cavitat scan would be wise to look into, so that if there is an issue beneath the gumline I won't waste time only fixing the surface. Now I want to find out what my dentist thinks of it. Thankfully I haven't had any mercury fillings, so I get to rule that out too. Though I can hardly vouch for the safety of plastic in my mouth, seeing as with severe MCS I do very bad with 99% of plastics. Hopefully I can get the Invisaline anchor bumps off my teeth soon which might help, or like the amalgam fillings might actually worsten the effects initially as I detox from it. A number of things contributed to my decline, but around the time I got Invisalign braces. I had to stop tehm because i was reactign to the plastic, and I soon became too ill to visit the dentist at all, so these past 5 years I've had these plastic bumps glued ot my teeth that were never intended to be on for that long, and i want them off!!

But back to the issue at hand. If the cavitat didn't find anything then I'd probably jsut get a filling, but if it turned out there was necrosis I can see myself potentially just removing the tooth and living with a gap. My mom experienced that when a tooth cracked all the way down to the roots and the roots subsequently began to decay. She was misdiagnosed with Trigeminal Neuralgia and when teh pain began localizing in one tooth and she could see it was cracked she went in and had it removed, cleared up her "TN". She just had them leave a hole and her teeth are fine.

Don't quote me on this, but I think that as long as there are several teeth on either side and you just remove one that it won't make all your teeth go crooked. That might happen if you remove two in a row or leave a lone tooth without a neighbor, but I've heard enough reports from people with gaps to believe that it can be okay. And at this point I'm leaning towards sporting a gap if there's an issue. With very severe MCS the risk of reacting to something is just not worth it.

Thankfully I have a dentist experienced in MCS, and it's possible there are other options he knows about that I don't yet.

 

[Ian]

been festering for a few years that i'm not yet sure what I'm going to do with. On one of them about 1/3 of the tooth is grey.

If it's gone grey the likelyhood is the tooth is dead. There is no pain because the nerve has probably long gone. A dentist would have normally done a root canal on that. At least that would have limited the infection somewhat. But a dead rotting tooth will cause a lot of damage to the bone. In fact with a situation like that the infection can spread and kill the adjacent teeth/bone. So really you should have it addressed as soon as possible not leave it .. for years. These type of infections are anaerobic, and very dangerous to your health.

As for teeth moving about, it is possible they can move. When dentists use braces to move teeth, the braces actually microscopically fracture the bone so the teeth can move. Normally best done in children ..

And as for plastics. Yeah dentists love using poisonous plastics in peoples mouthes. After studying dentistry for a while you will realise there is almost no limit to the toxic materials they will place in your mouth.

After having dental bonding on her three front teeth, Sally felt as if she was in chronic PMS. This symptom would have been easily dismissed as such, but she was in post-menopause. Aware that the plasticizer in dental bonding can be made of the synthetic estrogen bisphenol A (BPA), she called her dentist to investigate the material used, and sure enough BPA was a main ingredient.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/annie-b-bond/toxic-teeth----bpa-dental_b_481326.html

Here is a news report about lead being found in imported dental work. Mercury seems to send people to sleep but LEAD. Even a layman knows lead is toxic.

[video=youtube;8726r7m79wk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8726r7m79wk[/video]

It just never ends. You really do have to educate yourselves to make the best possible choices, because other people will happily poison you for the sake of saving a few dollars. And they will use the excuse they didn't know, and it's true your dentist probably didn't, because he was too lazy to really research for himself and just accepted whatever he was spoonfed.

 

[Dainty]

If it's gone grey the likelyhood is the tooth is dead. There is no pain because the nerve has probably long gone. A dentist would have normally done a root canal on that.

I had X-rays done when the tooth was like this, and although they showed there was a cavity that needs filling the dentist did not recommend a root canal or say anything about the tooth being "dead".

Yes, it's possible that the X-ray didn't show something that the Cavitat would show, and yes, it's possible that the dentist erred (though for me a second opinion is out of the question) but at some point we have to decide that their expertise and instruments are worth having a little faith in. And for me, at this moment, it means that instead of completely dismissing the dentist's expertise and deciding that I know better and my tooth must be dead and causing "a lot of damage to the bone" I'm going to assume that my dentist probably knows what he's talking about, and has a more informed perspective on my case than you, since he's the one who has looked at my X-rays and examined my tooth in person.

So really you should have it addressed as soon as possible not leave it .. for years. These type of infections are anaerobic, and very dangerous to your health.

I'm not sure you read this part of my post, so I'll quote it again:

I don't need anyone to tell me how bad that is, how it can be contributing to my illness, etc. I don't need anyone ordering me to do this or that. There are several different major issues I am dealing with right now and believe it or not this is a lower priority.

For the past 4 years stepping inside the dentist's office at all was a significantly life-threatening ordeal due to very severe MCS. We're talking airways being cut off. Any dental work at all, even a couple minutes to take this plastic stuff off my teeth, was not worth risking my life for. Moreover, I currently do not have any antihistamines that I could take if an allergic reaction were to occur, and I'm developing/discovering new allergies (not sensitivities; I do have both) every week. You have no idea how frightening it is to watch an allergic reaction slowly worsening over hte course of hours and knowing that an epi-pen is your only recourse.

Furthermore, there are currently no pain meds that I can use. We've been trying for I believe the past 6 months to find something tolerable. Are you telling me to get this done with zero pain control, even when according to the dentist there isn't any sort of major massive get-it-taken-care-of-right-now infection going on?

On top of all this I currently have a rash covering about 60% of my body that has been top priority the past few weeks because it's significantly interfering with my sleep, it's using up so much of my energy, getting PEM just from applying these creams and such. I don't even have the energy to treat this rash as much as it has to be treated, and meanwhile it continues to spread over my body. These kinds of crises are what has been happening basically non-stop for the past 4 years, whether it's a rash, glass in my throat, no clothing, excruciating pain, sleeping on bare wooden slats so that I become severely sleep deprived, life-threatening reactions to my living area, etc etc.

So you see, I really mean it when I say there are higher priorities right now. With my history of developing allergies (again, actual allergies) it'd be extremely foolish to attempt oral surgery without an option for antihistamines, and it doesn't make sense to go the route of extreme pain for lack of pain control options unless there is an established life-threatening situation, which there isn't, and with my body currently in this very run-down state from the issues with this rash it would be foolhardy of me to add a major stressor to the mix at this time.

I would love to have the freedom of being able to book an appointment and go in. Unfortunately that is not the case. I plan to get it taken care of as soon as possible, which for me might very well and up being several months or even a year from now. Such is my life.

 

[Cort]

Yeah, well sort of. I was getting chronic pain in the left side of my neck, which at it's worst got so bad my under arms started swelling up, then the skin would peal off. This started happening every 2-3 days. But I never had any tooth ache/jaw pain. Nothing like that. The symptoms were always away from the location. But it was basically just a process of elimination as to finding the problem. Virtually all my symptoms disappeared after I had the offending wisdom tooth removed first time around, but later returned some months later when the hole healed up. I was literally walking around for 2+ months with an open hole in my mouth after surgery, but I know now why that fixed me. It was because the anaerobic bacteria are killed by the oxygen in the air. The site healed over, it was x-rayed, I was given the all clear then my problems came back. The x-ray totally missed the massive cavitation I had.

I still get daily problems with my left tonsil, and pain in it, but most of my symptoms are totally gone. What really worries me about this whole episode is. After the doctors have reached the magic CFS diagnosis, they abandon any search for the cause of your problems, and if you have a jawbone cavitation like i had. You are on your own entirely because mainstream healthcare refuses to admit they even exist. Had I not stepped outside of mainstream healthcare, I am really not sure how long I would have lived for with such a serious chronic infection.

How did you get this diagnosed? I had a full jaw scan - is that how you found it? These kind of hard to spot infections are crazy....At least you can say in hindsight that everything revolved around a dental procedure? And the wisdom tooth?

Congratulations on getting well...and thanks very much for sharing your story. Dr. Cheney has said something similar - every once in a while he finds someone like you - its a dental infection.

 

[Cort]

Don't quote me on this, but I think that as long as there are several teeth on either side and you just remove one that it won't make all your teeth go crooked. That might happen if you remove two in a row or leave a lone tooth without a neighbor, but I've heard enough reports from people with gaps to believe that it can be okay. And at this point I'm leaning towards sporting a gap if there's an issue. With very severe MCS the risk of reacting to something is just not worth it.

Thankfully I have a dentist experienced in MCS, and it's possible there are other options he knows about that I don't yet

I've had a missing tooth for almost 15 years...I haven't had any problems...

 

[Ian]

I had X-rays done when the tooth was like this, and although they showed there was a cavity that needs filling the dentist did not recommend a root canal or say anything about the tooth being "dead".

If teeth go grey, it normally means they have died. They can be totally asymptomatic like that. I am sorry to hear about your MCS, that must be a real nightmare having that ontop of CFS. CFS on it's own is enough to bare for anybody.

The dentist that treated my cavitation wrote this in his book about someone with MCS.

 

[Wayne]

Hi Ian,

Very interesting story. Before I had about a dozen amalgams replaced, I literally thought I would die within a couple years if I didn't do something. I didn't know for sure amalgams removal was what I needed to do, but having them replaced made a huge difference.

Within a couple years or so, I again had that dieing feeling; this time I felt I needed to replace about 5 metal crowns. Replacing them was probably even more significant than the amalgams removal. My partner mentioned several times in the ensuing months how much better my brain was working. I really don't feel I would be alive today had I not done these procedures.

Dainty, so sorry to hear how difficult things are for you. Best to you as you methodically try to prioritize and make the best choices you possibly can for yourself.

Wayne

 

[Dainty]

Ian, interesting story.

My rash is not weeping, it came up overnight (not over several years), and my doctor is certain it is due to systemic Candida.

I had my MCS and CFS long before I had these cavities.

I have no metals in my teeth.

 

[Ian]

I developed persistant ring worm after I got sick. Every time I felt worse it'd just come back on my arms and legs. Nothing like 60% of my body, but annoying none the less. It still comes back now occasionally.