• Welcome to Phoenix Rising!

    Created in 2008, Phoenix Rising is the largest and oldest forum dedicated to furthering the understanding of and finding treatments for complex chronic illnesses such as chronic fatigue syndrome (ME/CFS), fibromyalgia (FM), long COVID, postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome (POTS), mast cell activation syndrome (MCAS), and allied diseases.

    To become a member, simply click the Register button at the top right.

My Recent Experience with B12 and Folate

bertiedog

Senior Member
Messages
1,736
Location
South East England, UK
I have done really well energy-wise with 5000 mcg Transdermal B12 spray which I think contains Cynacobalamin as well as 400 mcg Folapro. The sustained energy has been the best I have had since 2000 when I finally crashed with ME/CFS. I have however had difficulties with severe migraines which were almost unbearable when I added 1000 mcg MB12 lozenge. I kept to my normal other supplements which include Thornes Basic NutrientsIII which includes more MB12, AdnB12, methylfolate and calcium folinate but only in lowish doses.

The other problem I experienced was quite severe overstimulation especially when the MB12 was added. Within 3 days of taking this I could hardly sleep at night and was lucky to get 4 hours even with taking some clonazapan which I don't normally need at all.

The migraines became so severe my life didn't seem worth living which I know sounds very dramatic but the pain and the way I felt meant I could obviously no longer continue in this way. No way could I do what Fredd says and soldier on.

Since Sunday this week I dropped the TDB12 spray to 2000 mcg and didn't take any extra folates of MB12. Within 2 days my energy had dropped considerably and within 4 days I had lost all the ground I had made so I pushed the TD B12 spray back up to 5000 mcg and added back 400 mcg Folapro. The effect was immediate, great energy and mood just slight stimulation by mid afternoon and evening and only 5 1/2 hours sleep.

So today I had good energy on waking, used the TD B12 spray at 4000 mcg and took 800 Folapro. Within 4 hours of this I started to develop a slight pain in my head which has gone on building to a migraine. My mood is much lower and so is my energy.

So it is obvious I need at least 400 mcg methylfolate to go with the 200 mcg that is in the BN (plus 200 calcium folinate) whereas I don't appear to need extra MB12 at this stage, I respond really well to 5000 mcg TD B12 spray. I wonder if it is possible that I should only take a dose of methylfolate every other day to avoid the migraines? Is there anything obvious that I am missing?

I continue with stuff like fish oil Vitamin E, starflower oil, zinc, Vitamin D, Q10 etc and I eat an excellent good protein diet with low carbs. However on a recent blood test and previously my level of protein in the blood is below the range so I do need to take digestive enzymes with some betaine.

It is so difficult to get the balance right. I have been taking supplements for methylation since 2007 but always experience the migraines with MB12 and methylfolate but not the TD spray.

Pam
 

Freddd

Senior Member
Messages
5,184
Location
Salt Lake City
I have done really well energy-wise with 5000 mcg Transdermal B12 spray which I think contains Cynacobalamin as well as 400 mcg Folapro. The sustained energy has been the best I have had since 2000 when I finally crashed with ME/CFS. I have however had difficulties with severe migraines which were almost unbearable when I added 1000 mcg MB12 lozenge. I kept to my normal other supplements which include Thornes Basic NutrientsIII which includes more MB12, AdnB12, methylfolate and calcium folinate but only in lowish doses.

The other problem I experienced was quite severe overstimulation especially when the MB12 was added. Within 3 days of taking this I could hardly sleep at night and was lucky to get 4 hours even with taking some clonazapan which I don't normally need at all.

The migraines became so severe my life didn't seem worth living which I know sounds very dramatic but the pain and the way I felt meant I could obviously no longer continue in this way. No way could I do what Fredd says and soldier on.

Since Sunday this week I dropped the TDB12 spray to 2000 mcg and didn't take any extra folates of MB12. Within 2 days my energy had dropped considerably and within 4 days I had lost all the ground I had made so I pushed the TD B12 spray back up to 5000 mcg and added back 400 mcg Folapro. The effect was immediate, great energy and mood just slight stimulation by mid afternoon and evening and only 5 1/2 hours sleep.

So today I had good energy on waking, used the TD B12 spray at 4000 mcg and took 800 Folapro. Within 4 hours of this I started to develop a slight pain in my head which has gone on building to a migraine. My mood is much lower and so is my energy.

So it is obvious I need at least 400 mcg methylfolate to go with the 200 mcg that is in the BN (plus 200 calcium folinate) whereas I don't appear to need extra MB12 at this stage, I respond really well to 5000 mcg TD B12 spray. I wonder if it is possible that I should only take a dose of methylfolate every other day to avoid the migraines? Is there anything obvious that I am missing?

I continue with stuff like fish oil Vitamin E, starflower oil, zinc, Vitamin D,and I eat an excellent good protein diet with low carbs. However on a recent blood test and previously my level of protein in the blood is below the range so I do need to take digestive enzymes with some betaine.

It is so difficult to get the balance right. I have been taking supplements for methylation since 2007 but always experience the migraines with MB12 and methylfolate but not the TD spray.

Pam

Hi Pam,

Please tell me about the pains in your neck, shoulder, upper back; tight muscles, trigger points and such.

Q10 etc

CoQ10 can raise the blood pressure 50 points or more with terrible headaches in two hours following MeCbl in my experience. So, you have the energized effect of MeCbl, GOOD. That is a marker for those who heal generally. And yes, it does it despite the CyCbl because it is a good 100x more effective typically. I found that if I didn't take any CoQ10 the Bp increase and terrible headaches didn't happen again. When you try the MeCbl it might be a good idea to start with a quarter tablet. Stopping and starting MeCbl repeatedly often starts a series of worsening oscillations
 

bertiedog

Senior Member
Messages
1,736
Location
South East England, UK
Thanks Freddd

It was just 60 mg of Co Q10 do you think that is enough to react with the MB12? The other problem is the higher dose of methylfolate causing migraines too, could that also react with the Q10 do you think to cause the bad heads/migraines? I certainly don't have any problems with stopping it to see.

Pam
 

bertiedog

Senior Member
Messages
1,736
Location
South East England, UK
Forgot to tell you about any pains. I do seem to have a permanent problem of pain in my neck muscles and a few knots in each shoulder but I noticed this week whilst not taking any MB12 or extra methylfolate the shoulders were lovely and soft and I didn't feel any pain in my neck at all. In fact when I am not getting the migraines I don't notice any pain in neck or shoulders. The migraines radiate down into those muscles for sure.

My leg muscles have been great since the TD B12 spray and no real pain only at the end of say a 30 minute walk when I have obviously run out of ATP.

Other than that I don't suffer with any pain at all and I am very supple and strong (apart from when the energy runs out). Since the TDB12 spray I am really enjoying my walks but not so much today I was weaker and struggled because I had the migraine building cos of the extra Folapro. I do seem to be extremely sensitive to folate and yet all the tests I have always show I have an extreme deficiency of it in my cells which has likely been there for 50 years or more.

Thanks
Pam
 

Freddd

Senior Member
Messages
5,184
Location
Salt Lake City
Forgot to tell you about any pains. I do seem to have a permanent problem of pain in my neck muscles and a few knots in each shoulder but I noticed this week whilst not taking any MB12 or extra methylfolate the shoulders were lovely and soft and I didn't feel any pain in my neck at all. In fact when I am not getting the migraines I don't notice any pain in neck or shoulders. The migraines radiate down into those muscles for sure.

My leg muscles have been great since the TD B12 spray and no real pain only at the end of say a 30 minute walk when I have obviously run out of ATP.

Other than that I don't suffer with any pain at all and I am very supple and strong (apart from when the energy runs out). Since the TDB12 spray I am really enjoying my walks but not so much today I was weaker and struggled because I had the migraine building cos of the extra Folapro. I do seem to be extremely sensitive to folate and yet all the tests I have always show I have an extreme deficiency of it in my cells which has likely been there for 50 years or more.

Thanks
Pam

Hi Pam,

I do seem to be extremely sensitive to folate and yet all the tests I have always show I have an extreme deficiency of it in my cells which has likely been there for 50 years or more.


OF COURSE. Being extremely deficient makes for extreme sensitivity to what one is deficient of. I have been deficient of methylfolate since shortly after birth. And everybody deficient in folate will end up deficient in b12 too according to one researcher I read.

AdoCbl and L-carnitine fumarate are what turns on energy generation, ATP. There are often two steps to that. First in response to exercise and presence of AdoCbl and carnitine in sufficient amounts, the mitochondria start proliferating. Then the muscles start growing and adapting to more energy output.. I had been taking AdoCbl for 4 years and had no muscle improvement. The day after I first took carnitine my Nordic Track time went from 17 minutes (the failure of energy point for 4 years) to 34 minutes when I stopped so as not overdo it. After that I lost 45 more pounds of water, 60 pounds of fat and put on 50 pounds of muscle.
 
Messages
48
Any chance you are deficient in Magnesium? Adding topical magnesium oil and eliminating caffeine from my diet got rid of my migraines.