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    Created in 2008, Phoenix Rising is the largest and oldest forum dedicated to furthering the understanding of, and finding treatments for, complex chronic illnesses such as chronic fatigue syndrome (ME/CFS), fibromyalgia, long COVID, postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome (POTS), mast cell activation syndrome (MCAS), and allied diseases.

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My gigantic story going back to 1996, please read this, treatment plan included!

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44
Somehow the start got lost, trying to remember how this started:

I was extremely healthy as a kid, I got an award for graduating K-12 with no unexcused absences. My senior year I got mono (epstein barr virus), that's when it all changed

Early Health/liver transplant

As I said, I got mono, and that unbeknownst to me at the time, was the inflection point for the rest of my life. This was 1996, in 1997 I went into the USAF. Prior to graduating high school and going into the Air Force, I was VERY active. I would Rollerblade 20+ miles a day, play tennis from sunup to sunset, just a real active person. I deteriorated while in the Air Force, and got sick in 1999. I was white as a ghost as I had been losing blood, and ignoring it because, "I've always been healthy". It came to a head at my sister's wedding. I was coughing non-stop, because my body couldn't get oxygen. I barely make it back to my duty station, and they finally realize my blood counts are so low that I could die at any moment basically. Lots of prednisone, got me back to normal but miserable. Discharged within the next year with UC (ulcerative colitis) and PSC (primary sclerosing cholangitis). 2000-2012 were uneventful for the most part, but looking back, I never was the person I was before EBV. I received my transplant for PSC in 2012.

Post transplant

So, in the year leading up to transplant, I was diagnosed with PPH (portal pulmonary hypertension) due to my poor liver performance they said. They said this will hopefully go away after, it didn't. I will leave out my transplant challenges for brevity, but I was back to work 1 month after, and went cross country skiing and dogsledding 3 months after transplant. I could not help but feel like my GI tract was not behaving normally though. I had a lot of abdominal discomfort and pain that they just glazed over and said was me having trouble coming off the pain meds.
Fast forward to 2016, and I start taking Kratom to help with my continued lack of energy and constant tiredness and fatigue. This actually helps, but it feels like at the expense of a later crash. I do this for a couple of years as it helps me function during the day. I started consuming THC again during this time. Somewhere along the line I got clostridium dificil (C diff) and could not shake it on Vancomycin, a strong antibiotic that is the de facto for c dfif. I finally got rid of c diff in 2018 after reciving a fecal transplant.

ME/CFS era

I ignored ME/CFS for years because I thought it was Long COVID, and my wife and I had managed to avoid it through the pandemic, even while fostering an infant boy who we had in daycare as well. This was around 2019 when it started I think, in conjunction with the c diff infection that lasted years. So since around 2019 I've had progressing POTS, dysautonomia, ataxia, tachycardia, HRV, fibromyalgia, weird soul of my foot pain, complete gastroparesis or whatever you want to call it, etc. It was a constant cycle of constipation leading to forced diarrhea as my body evacuated by force. I could write about my weird symptoms forever (no burping, no hiccups, struggling to pass gas, back won't pop, don't feel the need to stretch, etc). Some of those sound weird, but make more sense when you realize I am really describing how I notice them when I need to do them again. Like I know I am returning to normal when I feel like I need to stretch all the time, and if my back pops when I try to, it means I am recovering. Another huge issue I have had is drinking tons of water, and it's like I'm dehydrated and I urinate very little, it all comes out the GI tract for the most part. I think this is why I don't get the traditional edema and such, because I end up so dehydrated as my body isn't absorbing the water into my cells. In 2021 I quit Kratom completely. I also had an episode where I now realize I was having severe thiamine deficiency most likely. I say this because this past week I had a repeat of these same feelings of thwarted belonging, and other extreme symptoms of severe ME / CFS which is most likely just a thiamine deficiency in a subset of the population. This horrible experience in early 2021 led to me being involuntarily committed for a week in what I can only describe as a mental asylum. No treatment, just suffering, USA! USA!

Treatment

A few weeks ago I got COVID for the first time. If you look at the chart for things that make you at risk for suicide with ME/CFS, I was filling out both sides of modifiable and non-modifiable, it was rough. I stumbled across all this newish research about thiamine deficiency. There are some key videos EVERYONE should watch.

In depth discussion (older)

Managing Paradoxical side effects

More

Dr Osborne (covers the vicious cycles we get in for the pillars that cause this cycle)

Dr Eric Berg (this one is wild because he is the only one I've heard mention bottom of foot pain)

There is a lot of stuff in there that also points to the fact that my PPH could just be a thiamine deficiency. There is even weirder stuff about this, that maybe I'll tell someday once people start believing me, just as far as how far back this might really go for me.

UC could be caused by this deficiency, PPH could be, and my ME CFS surely are.

PROTOCOL

I started magensium 100mg, potassium gluconate, b complex, and benfothiamine 100mg 5 days ago now.

I stopped drinking caffeine as the above videos talk about how caffeine deactivates thiamine.

I have introduced a lot of whole foods, as well as foods rich in thiamine. Before, I thought I had SIBO, like many people along this journey, and so I would cut out cereal and bread thinking carbs were the issue. Those might have been my only sources of thiamine as I was eating a very processed diet, often with lots of sugars to make up for my lack of energy. I'm eating egg noodles that are fortified for dinner with nutritional yeast as well. I am trying to throw everything at this deficiency.

Today I went up to 200mg of Benfo on day 5, about 2 hours ago, and will report i f any changes for the better or worse.

Improvements

First things first, the paradoxical side effects. My head has felt like it's going to explode at times the first few days. The thing that made it easy for me though was, we NEVER get any signs of hope, I know I don't. People think we are depressed and down on ourselves, but I was quickly reminded that any sign of improvement is a tiny thread that feeds your excitement to get better. So, if you are in tune with your body, this protocol should be obvious, it has been for me.

Examples:

I am getting hot and cold. I wore pants and a hoodie all the time, and it was like I was always the same temp more or less.

I am sweating in my armpits, not just nervous sweating.

My heart and breathing have settled down, but also they can go crazy if not careful. It's like the ability to respond is back, and they are quick to say "Hey boss, need me!" and get a little too excited. Pacing is important.

I am tired at night, and groggy in the morning, instead of just exhausted all the time. I get something from sleep.

My GI tract has snapped into action and is not perfect but functioning, was like a graveyard before, silent.

I am peeing again, a normal amount for how much I am drinking.

Brain fog improving

Headache improving

Eye pain improving

Weird neuropathic pain in feet dissipated in days

I'm trying really hard to not leave stuff out, but I know I am. The point is, I can see changes I haven't experienced in 4 years. This can't just be placebo, I am too in tune with my body, and the more you watch those videos and more on those channels, you'll start to see why it becomes obvious that I had this. I am on an SSRI, I take NSAIDs, all these things also further breakdown these cycles.

If I had money, I'd pay you all to try this treatment. These aren't fringe things, these are normal vitamins that we overlook because "Doctors cured thiamine deficiency 100 years ago", but nobody talks about how I'm 45 and what we eat is COMPLETELY different than what we ate when I was a kid.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE TRY THIS, you have NOTHING but a few bucks on some vitamins to lose. Do NOT quit if you have paradoxical effects, I think that's the main reason people fail to succeed on this path, or they don't get a megadose (just meeting the thiamine need when deficient doesn't seem to be enough).
 
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YippeeKi YOW !!

Senior Member
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This is an exhaustive and well-documented post, and I know it cant have ben easy to write... and it may be a life-changer both for current members and readers down the road. Threads here are constantly resusitated, sometimes years and years after the fact.

I don't know if I'll have the courage to try your protocol, altho I already super-load on parts of it. The mag and potassium gluconate, for two. And after 2-3 years of having to avoid all B vits, Im finally able to take a whole B-comp cap with my electrolyte, ginger, cinnamon, desiccated liver 'morning 'tea'.

But I had to slowly work up to everything I'm taking now, in tiny, painful, frightening steps and it too quite a while

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE TRY THIS, you have NOTHING but a few bucks on some vitamins to lose.
Aside from the fact that this annoying little poisonous sand flea of an illness has never, to date, provided even ONE, one-size-fits-all remedy cure, or amelioration. Wait Not quite accurate ... potassium is an enormous help to quite a lot of us, which is unusual.

And we DO have something to lose. Many of us have had to pay various prices, some of them pretty steep, for the often small increments of improvement that we've managed to cobble together, largely by being, like you, our own lab rats and petri dishes. So gutting thru paradoxical reactions will feel to a lot of us as tho we're killing ourselves, deliberately. Or just as bad, as tho we're backsliding into something dark and painful that we've managed to just barely crawl out of, and dont particularly want to risk.

But there are also those among us who are adventurous and more risk-taking, and Im hoping they find their way to this thread. I'll be back to tag in a few for you as soon as that thing .... uh.... you know... the thing .... the thingamagig we .... AHA... BRAIN !!! Just as soon as my brain kicks in ...

Again, thank you for a well thought-out, nicely backed-up post, and for so enthusiastically sharing what helped you soooooo enormously !!!! That was super thoughty of you, and believe me, it's much appreciated. And it wont be wasted. It'll just take a little time :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup: :woot::woot: ....
 
Messages
44
This is an exhaustive and well-documented post, and I know it cant have ben easy to write... and it may be a life-changer both for current members and readers down the road. Threads here are constantly resusitated, sometimes years and years after the fact.

I don't know if I'll have the courage to try your protocol, altho I already super-load on parts of it. The mag and potassium gluconate, for two. And after 2-3 years of having to avoid all B vits, Im finally able to take a whole B-comp cap with my electrolyte, ginger, cinnamon, desiccated liver 'morning 'tea'.

But I had to slowly work up to everything I'm taking now, in tiny, painful, frightening steps and it too quite a while

Aside from the fact that this annoying little poisonous sand flea of an illness has never, to date, provided even ONE, one-size-fits-all remedy cure, or amelioration. Wait Not quite accurate ... potassium is an enormous help to quite a lot of us, which is unusual.

And we DO have something to lose. Many of us have had to pay various prices, some of them pretty steep, for the often small increments of improvement that we've managed to cobble together, largely by being, like you, our own lab rats and petri dishes. So gutting thru paradoxical reactions will feel to a lot of us as tho we're killing ourselves, deliberately. Or just as bad, as tho we're backsliding into something dark and painful that we've managed to just barely crawl out of, and dont particularly want to risk.

But there are also those among us who are adventurous and more risk-taking, and Im hoping they find their way to this thread. I'll be back to tag in a few for you as soon as that thing .... uh.... you know... the thing .... the thingamagig we .... AHA... BRAIN !!! Just as soon as my brain kicks in ...

Again, thank you for a well thought-out, nicely backed-up post, and for so enthusiastically sharing what helped you soooooo enormously !!!! That was super thoughty of you, and believe me, it's much appreciated. And it wont be wasted. It'll just take a little time :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup: :woot::woot: ....

I'm sorry, when you're riding the high of feeling better it's easy to forget the pain and reality, and also just how your mind takes in stuff like this.

Can I ask what you mean about not being able to take B vitamins? That's not something I am familiar with. As a layman, and from my own experience, that feels like paradoxical effects, is it something else? For me, I could not have felt worse, we all know how we feel, and I know most people would have ended their life, it was that bad for me. So, taking thiamine made my head feel like I needed to tell my wife to hide my handgun safe, it was that bad, and I am in control of myself. This is what I worry about. I think when the processes restart, this is my theory, it's HORRIBLE feeling, and it's a lot. I also think it could be if you go too light on the thiamine specifically, your body gets just enough to start doing some stuff, but makes you feel bad for not having more. I could be wrong, this is all from MY experience, but man, it feels like this is right and I just want to help others.

Help me understand your challenges with taking the supplement?

PS your username makes me think of Brooklyn 99 when Charles gets the Die Hard quote wrong, "Yippie Kayak mother truckers!"
 

YippeeKi YOW !!

Senior Member
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Second star to the right ...
@godlovesatrier , @ljimbo423 , @Jyoti , @Mary , @linusbert
Y'all might want to check out the above. I found it truly interesting and if I wasnt such a floppy-pantsed little coward, Id be giving it a try myself Thought you might like to take a look, and possibly fine tune it to your specific needs, as you understand them.

Yeah. Like any of us understand anything about this crabby little poisoned apple of an illness, other than that, generally speaking, we understand more than most of the Drs we've been to.

I'll be back, as I threatened above, with more names as they occur to me ....
 

hapl808

Senior Member
Messages
2,117
Thiamine sounds interesting, but can't say I've noticed much trying regular thiamine, and anywhere from 100mg to 200mg of benfotiamine per day. I do take various magnesiums, and methyl B, and so forth. I think maybe it makes me a bit better, but by 'better' I mean that I crash for days after an hour of computer work instead of 30 minutes of computer work. Whee, doubled my abilities. But of course, some days that hour doesn't hold, some weeks get worse, no idea why.
 

YippeeKi YOW !!

Senior Member
Messages
16,047
Location
Second star to the right ...
Can I ask what you mean about not being able to take B vitamins? That's not something I am familiar with.
It's apparently not unusual for many of us to suffer serious crashes and brain/thinking sort of diffuse function failures on any of the B-vits. We're not sure why, but quite a few of us share this particular response.

And PLEASE dont apologize for your enthusiasm on having found something that didnt just help you but made a 180-degree turn around in your illness !!! We celebrate with you, even if we're still on the sidelines ....
 
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44
@godlovesatrier , @ljimbo423 , @Jyoti , @Mary , @linusbert
Y'all might want to check out the above. I found it truly interesting and if I wasnt such a floppy-pantsed little coward, Id be giving it a try myself Thought you might like to take a look, and possibly fine tune it to your specific needs, as you understand them.

Yeah. Like any of us understand anything about this crabby little poisoned apple of an illness, other than that, generally speaking, we understand more than most of the Drs we've been to.

I'll be back, as I threatened above, with more names as they occur to me ....
I'm about to get weird, I honestly think on a greater level that is why they want to take down TikTok and such, it's keeping us from being connected. I am now wondering if we should create a crowd sourced health site where the community tries to solve people's illnesses by putting tons of eyes on it, and offering "bounties" to make it favorable to those who help solve long standing cases, etc.
 
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44
It's apparently not unusual for many of us to suffer serious crashes and brain/thinking sort of diffuse function failures on any of the B-vits. We're not sure why, but quite a few of us share this particular response.

And PLEASE dont apologize for your enthusiasm on having found something that didnt just help you but made a 180-degree turn around in your illness !!! We celebrate with you, even if we're still on the sidelines ....

So, my brain fog and such was as bad as it could be I guess. It definitely got intense and horrible the first few days of this. I think I said somewhere else "anyone else would have been in the ER". I've had the pleasure of going through pancreatitis and other things, so I am pretty "tough" I guess, and have the displeasure of knowing the upper limits of pain and what we can endure. I don't want to hurt anyone making them push too far, but man, I can't help but feel that people fail on this treatment due to paradoxical effects.

It is asking SO much of yourself to feel worse when you already are telling people, "I can't feel worse", so I get it, 100%.
 

YippeeKi YOW !!

Senior Member
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Second star to the right ...
For me, I could not have felt worse, we all know how we feel, and I know most people would have ended their life, it was that bad for me.
Yeah, with 'ya!!! I was bedbound and seriously body, brain, and pain impaired for a little over 5 years. Semi vegetative. I was seriously considering The Ultimate Solution (even trying to make my brain absorb The Final Exit, a sort of handbook on suicide) until I stumbled, and I do mean stumbled, on a couple of things that helped, which luckily happened just far enough before a near life-ending accident my husband had, which forced me into a semi-upright position. While I couldnt visit him in the hospital, he needed my voice to assure him that all was well, and the Drs needed someone to approve things until he was better.
PS your username makes me think of Brooklyn 99 when Charles gets the Die Hard quote wrong, "Yippie Kayak mother truckers!"
:D:D:D:lol::lol: .... never watched Brooklyn 99, but deeply familiar with Die Hard, and it's famous, iconic Yippie ki yay line !!! Never thought of it til now in conjunction with my user name ...
 

YippeeKi YOW !!

Senior Member
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Second star to the right ...
I've had the pleasure of going through pancreatitis and other things, so I am pretty "tough" I guess,
I've been thru cancer, chemo, partial crippling, 2 serious spinal operations which reversed it, two serious riding accidents that caused profound damage to most of my left side, and on and on and on ..... you'll find that almost all of us are pretty tough, and most of us have gone thru a dizzying array of additional challenges, so you're not alone ....
 

Mary

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I started magensium 100mg, potassium gluconate, b complex, and benfothiamine 100mg 5 days ago now.
I'm taking a lot more magnesium than this, lots of potassium gluconate, was taking a B complex for years but have switched to the individual Bs, and have had very good results with thiamine. I did try benfothiamin which is pricey and compared its effects to plain thiamine and it didn't do much more for me, so I've stayed with plain thiamine. When I first tried thiamine, it gave me an amazing boost in energy, and then (as I've written about before) caused severe fatigue, which I found was due to hypophosphatemia caused by a refeeding syndrome reaction to the thiamine and had to start supplementing with phosphorous.

Anyways, these have all been good things for me to take but unfortunately have not solved the mystery of ME/CFS for me - I still crash regularly, etc. But I'm a big fan of thiamine!
 
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:D:D:D:lol::lol: .... never watched Brooklyn 99, but deeply familiar with Die Hard, and it's famous, iconic Yippie ki yay line !!! Never thought of it til now in conjunction with my user name ...

Honestly, if you're a big Die Hard fan, that's reason enough to watch Brooklyn 99, because Jake (Andy Samberg) is such a huge Die Hard fan, he's constantly referencing it. The episode where they are held hostage is the episode where his friend Charles says the line wrong.

We've got one that we trust. We're on it now. I'm not sure you'll get much traction on that but who knows ....

I definitely didn't mean to replace this. I was thinking international scale, like Google for health issues but without the evil stuff. Something huge and lofty.

I've been thru cancer, chemo, partial crippling, 2 serious spinal operations which reversed it, two serious riding accidents that caused profound damage to most of my left side, and on and on and on ..... you'll find that almost all of us are pretty tough, and most of us have gone thru a dizzying array of additional challenges, so you're not alone ....

Wow, that's a lot. I know you weren't trying to flex on me, but you did and won, lol.

Not sure I agree, but it's a large, wide world with plenty of room for all sorts of opinions, thoughts, and ruminations ...:eek::eek::thumbsup::thumbsup::)

I have my concerns with China, but I think the US concerns are more about a social media platform that isn't within the US borders scares them, and less than it's something nefarious and manipulating Americans. My wife is on it a lot, it's a great community of caring people, or at least there are those bubbles within it.
 
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I'm taking a lot more magnesium than this, lots of potassium gluconate, was taking a B complex for years but have switched to the individual Bs, and have had very good results with thiamine. I did try benfothiamin which is pricey and compared its effects to plain thiamine and it didn't do much more for me, so I've stayed with plain thiamine. When I first tried thiamine, it gave me an amazing boost in energy, and then (as I've written about before) caused severe fatigue, which I found was due to hypophosphatemia caused by a refeeding syndrome reaction to the thiamine and had to start supplementing with phosphorous.

Anyways, these have all been good things for me to take but unfortunately have not solved the mystery of ME/CFS for me - I still crash regularly, etc. But I'm a big fan of thiamine!

How long has it been since you've been doing those treatments, in regards to "still crashing"? Have you undergone extensive nutritional testing? That was definitely going to be my next step, and might still be for my wife and I, because I think that could be really valuable.

For me, it feels like because I cut out thiamine decreasers (caffeine), went to a whole foods diet, supplemented thiamine nutritionally, AND through supplements, it's all working together to have a really great effect for me. I kind of get the feeling my progression was long and slow, and thus my body is reacting well to nutrients because mine was less of an absorption issue, but more of a lack of intake + a large deficit from a past infection that I could never recover from. I think in this way, I am "lucky". I guess that's why I thought of myself as "the poster child" for this deficiency, if I am right, because I think it's possible the past 24 years or so have all been due to EBV exposure, that gave me the genetic defect for poor thiamine intake, combined with diet, led me to a liver transplant even. That might be a stretch, but PSC only comes with UC or Chrons, and if my UC was caused by thiamine deficiency.... It's a lot, and perhaps a stretch, but there are so many signs that it might be right to me.

All of that said is why I need to remember that others have underlying causes that might differ from mine, so while I might be "right" not that it matters, thiamine might not be ALL of the puzzle for all of us. It seems to me, it might be quite that simple. All my other nutrients are normal, still waiting on my test results, I'll be shocked if it's normal. They said 5-7 days and it's day 5. Mayo doesn't do the test on Fridays, so if it isn't done, it won't be until Monday.
 

YippeeKi YOW !!

Senior Member
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16,047
Location
Second star to the right ...
I think the US concerns are more about a social media platform that isn't within the US borders scares them,
Yeah, they're paranoid that way. But I cant say that I totally blame them ....
My wife is on it a lot, it's a great community of caring people, or at least there are those bubbles within it.
The participants and posters may be kind and benign, but behind all of that Kumbaya, TikTok, from what I understand, gives China a sort of front-row view of .... pretty much everything about all of us .... I'm not sure how I feel about TikTok, except for my sure knowledge that China isn't known for fair play (not that we necessarily are), and if there were a nearly invisible way to gather data fro us, they'd be dead certain to use it.

Hardly proof.
 

Violeta

Senior Member
Messages
2,956
Yeah, with 'ya!!! I was bedbound and seriously body, brain, and pain impaired for a little over 5 years. Semi vegetative. I was seriously considering The Ultimate Solution (even trying to make my brain absorb The Final Exit, a sort of handbook on suicide) until I stumbled, and I do mean stumbled, on a couple of things that helped, which luckily happened just far enough before a near life-ending accident my husband had, which forced me into a semi-upright position. While I couldnt visit him in the hospital, he needed my voice to assure him that all was well, and the Drs needed someone to approve things until he was better.

:D:D:D:lol::lol: .... never watched Brooklyn 99, but deeply familiar with Die Hard, and it's famous, iconic Yippie ki yay line !!! Never thought of it til now in conjunction with my user name ...
YippeeeKi, we're so glad you made it through that.
 

YippeeKi YOW !!

Senior Member
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16,047
Location
Second star to the right ...
YippeeeKi, we're so glad you made it through that.
Oh sweetie ... what a kind thing to say !!! Thank you :hug::hug::hug::hug: !!!

At the time it didn't seem like much of a gift, but once I found PR and was slowly and laboriously able to expand more on the little things that helped and gradually got better, I was profoundly grateful ....

Life's strange ... but that's not news to any of us, eh?
 

hapl808

Senior Member
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2,117
Yeah, they're paranoid that way. But I cant say that I totally blame them ....

The participants and posters may be kind and benign, but behind all of that Kumbaya, TikTok, from what I understand, gives China a sort of front-row view of .... pretty much everything about all of us .... I'm not sure how I feel about TikTok, except for my sure knowledge that China isn't known for fair play (not that we necessarily are), and if there were a nearly invisible way to gather data fro us, they'd be dead certain to use it.

Hardly proof.

Yeah, the issue is the second part - we're not known for fair play, either. And if we ban TikTok, wow - the Chinese will never have access to any of our info!! Unless they just purchase it from Facebook, Experian, commercially available law enforcement databases, data aggregators…

I tend to agree they just don't like something they have less control over. The bill banning TikTok is a terrible idea for many reasons, and I say that as someone who doesn't really use TikTok.