Modification of Immunological Parameters, Oxidative Stress Markers, Mood Symptoms, and Well-Being Status ... Venturini et al., 2019

[Rufous McKinney]

I think when I stop eating all together (because stomach shut down), the gut then gets starved of something and in my case things get rather calm.

I'm an IBS-d type of person. I didn't think I had SIBO But have changed my mind recently. I can feel more "activity" way high up that can go careening out the whole colon. Lets sail to Hawaii.

I suspect its related to energy levels

I've decided much of the gut problem is PEM gut. Instead I tend to blame the food.

Far less simple carbs is always helpful in my case. Clearly its fuel for something.


Oddly, I have found that two things sort of HELP if my stomach is doing something and threatening to stop emptying.

1) apply bio magnet to stomach valve

2) rub Copaiba oil all over my stomach (contains b-caryophyllene, a endocannibanoid)


this occurred recently after efforts to do castor oil packs and the liquid B-12 drops.

 

[Wishful]

But it took ten months and then suddenly the horrible rash vanished and never returned.

Ah, but was the result from a continuous 10 months of that tea, or from something else you consumed, or just some random effect of your body or skin microbiome? Even if you hadn't consumed anything different in that period, you could have picked up a new skin bacteria or phage from a doorknob or shopping cart or skin flake drifting on the wind. One of your own bacteria/phages might have mutated in a way that was effective against the rash.

That's a problem with "it takes x months to show an effect" treatments: it's hard to verify. I think you'd need a reasonable number of people who try the treatment and report results only after x months.

 

[Rufous McKinney]

Ah, but was the result from a continuous 10 months of that tea, or from something else you consumed, or just some random effect of your body or skin microbiome?

for 7-8 years that rash never went anywhere until I consumed the herbs that cleared it up.

No, a doorknob was not involved.

My rash was my rash. It had no name. Doctors had nothing to offer, even a proper name. It wasn't all the standard named type rashes.

Whatever, I'm very grateful that it worked.

 

[Wishful]

No, a doorknob was not involved.

You didn't touch a doorknob for 8 years? Library books? An item in a store that someone had picked up before you? Are you sure that a fly didn't land on you after landing on someone else? Humans transfer microbes all the time unless they're in absolute isolation.

Maybe the herbs were responsible for the effect, but in 10 months or 8 years, a lot of changes can occur for other reasons. Just the changes due to normal aging could have broken the stalemate between the infection and your immune system. Maybe one part of your immune system weakened, which allowed another part to activate and successfully destroy the infection.

I believe that food poisoning cured my type IV food sensitivity, but I can't prove it. There were several things I tried that I had strong evidence that they worked, because they worked several times, and with a short (< 24 hrs) delay. My proline sensitivity abruptly started, lasted for many months, then stopped, without any obvious cause; no special intentional treatments involved.

Without repetition or limiting of other variables, it's hard to prove correlation of effect and cause.

 

[Rufous McKinney]

it's hard to prove correlation of effect and cause.

I don't need to prove it. I experienced it.

 

[bob800]

I seem to have had a significant improvement in average function recently after being stung by a wasp on my hand 12 days ago

Here's something you might find interesting: Jay Goldstein's last resort CFS "treatment" if everything else failed was honey bee venom injections. He found this treatment to work best in patients with "PDV" (primary disorder of vigilance, as opposed to many of the "hypervigilant" patients he also treated).

From Tuning the Brain:

In occasional patients, stimulants are barely effective and NMDA receptor antagonists worsen symptoms. After I try cholinesterase inhibitors, nasal dopamine, glutamate, TRH [... he goes on to listen about 30 medications...], I get to honey bee venom. This agent has limited utility. The injection is painful, similar to a bee sting. Tolerance may develop to its effect, or it may seem to reverse its mode of action and exacerbate symptoms. It is somewhat expensive. The duration of action is highly variable, from a few hours to a few months. There is no apparent upper limit to this dosage, so if there is no response, I never know whether the amount injected was high enough. And, worst of all, patients can become allergic to bee venom even if they have a negative skin test and tolerate doses of 300 units (six bee stings) in the office. For some patients, generally those who fit the PDV spectrum (but not always--since bee venom has many active ingredients), it is the magic bullet. If they become allergic to it, they are quite distressed. In general, the actions of honey bee venom are just the opposite of what most neurosomatic patients need.

He goes on to speculate about its mechanism:

I tend to view honey bee venom as injectable arachidonic acid or as phospholipase A2 in a bottle. As such, it can be metabolized into various eicosanoids or cannabinoids and can act as the most potent NMDA agonist I can give, although sometimes it acts as an NMDA antagonist.

Regarding strategies to duplicate its effect:

As with most biochemical substances, honey bee venom can be helpful or harmful in a certain patient, at a certain dose, and at a certain time. At present, I am unable to duplicate its action with a clinically available medication. High doses of inositol, to increase [Ca2+]i, would be the best alternative at present.

I always read this section of the book a bit incredulously. It is fascinating to see the same effect replicated here by a member of the forum!

 

[Tsukareta]

I just got my stomach bacteria lab analysis results back, from a company called Biomesight whose sample collection and shipping process was easier than another test by a company called Verisana. So my level of a pathogenic bacteria called 'Desulfovibrio' was off the scale, the average is 0.124%, the highest was 1.257% and mine was 1.552%, which I think is the highest they have ever recorded. In the Toxins - Hydrogen Sulphide section the value was near the 'upper' listed, upper was 2.2% mine was 2.1% and the average is 0.46%, presumably due to the Desulfo bacteria I mentioned. I'm guessing I have H2S SIBO which explains a flatline lactulose result I got with the AIRE 2 device, since im not in the USA I cant access Triosmart, so I have no way to measure this gas directly.

I believe these dysbiosis problems started in 2020 and I fell ill with CFS overnight in 2015 so i'm not sure its related to the root cause of my CFS, but I'm guessing its the cause of my onset of leaky gut ( food reactions ), MCS and mold hypersensitivity. How that relates to the wasp sting, I don't know. My stomach gas became fairly bad again yesterday after an active week but my energy and symptoms are still relatively good. I was able to leave town on my e-bike for the first time since March ( I rarely pedal I just go along with electric power but even then it can make me crash and all kinda problems flare up ).

I had a lot of odd issues last summer but I was well enough to pedal a regular bike for 2 miles, no food issues, chemical and mold was mostly the same as usual apart from one episode where I had to abandon a room after spontaneously developing hypersensitivity to that room specifically. These mystery diseases are so strange and often seem to defy logic, the wasp sting thing being a good example of that. I think many people take for granted the very complex processes occurring in their own body to maintain normal health and function though.

 

[Wishful]

Given that your level of that bacteria was that extreme, might another test by a different company be worthwhile? If the first company's collection and shipping process was simpler, maybe that allowed contamination, or conditions that allowed that species to continue to reproduce (preservatives killed the other species, leaving no competition). Did you notice any other evidence of sulfur issues?

 

[Tsukareta]

Its taken me a while to look at the data and I don't think its just that one thing, their processing should be good, its a buffer type solution that doesn't require refrigeration, I wouldn't have carelessly contaminated it and it seems to be an advanced high tech company. This data shows 4 instances where my numbers are off the scale ( at a genus level ), and around 50 out of 170 are 90 percentile or above, and 6 are below 20 percentile. So many species of bacteria are at levels multiple times the average ( of their dataset which might not be representative of healthy people ). What it means and how can it be possible, I don't know. The studies say microbiome diversity is lower in ME/CFS but the summary says mine is 'satisfactory' at 96 " The diversity score is a derivative of the Shannon-Wiener Index. " Interestingly I found that one of my bacteria types which was off was associated with the production of sphingolipids and function of natural killer cells ( Bacteroides thetaiotaomicron ), mine says 9th percentile.

 

[Wishful]

Now I'm wondering how stable the gut microbiome is. Are the sub-populations relatively stable over months, or does having KFC for dinner cause a dramatically different set of reading from the previous dinner of pea soup with ice cream for dessert?

 

[Tsukareta]

Now I'm wondering how stable the gut microbiome is. Are the sub-populations relatively stable over months, or does having KFC for dinner cause a dramatically different set of reading from the previous dinner of pea soup with ice cream for dessert?

yes it could be reflective of my restricted diet ( consuming a lot of soy milk and potato and rice for example ), and I also take a lot of pills, one of my ones thats raised is a bacteria that eats cellulose, and those pill capsules sometimes contain it I think, also potato might contain it. Its strange though because I don't eat much vegetables outside of potato and parsnips, I eat a lot of meat and eggs. I'm looking into ways that I can kill the hydrogen sulphide producing bacteria overgrowth specifically, but I don't want to mess with things too much yet as my health improvement from the wasp sting time is still working.