Modes of transmission of XMRV - MRVs

[SickOfSickness]

Yeah if males are less infected, they would wonder if testosterone is protective. I am confused by the long post about HTLV-I though, I think that's old retroviruses that they should know more about by now, but I guess they still don't know.

 

[taniaaust1]

, but were currently being transmitted primarily from mice to humans much the way the hantavirus is, say from mouse dropping that dry, become dust and are later inhaled by humans, or maybe instead via a mouse to human vector such as fleas.

Such a mode of transmission would help account for the odd epidemiological characteristics. Transmission would often be sporadic, without the usual human to human transmission characteristics. Clustered outbreaks would occur when groups of mice became ill by transmitting to each other and then transmitting it to humans in the community. Members in a family would be more likely to get ill if the household had mice infected with the illness. Once humans are infected, blood transfusions could become a source of secondary transmission.

ohh.. your post just made me remembers something which i did many many years before i developed ME. i ATE a heap of mouse droppings!! They were in mollases and it was dark and i thought seeds had gotten into it.. and it wasnt till later that i realised that i ate a heap of mouse droppings.

(my daughter also had a Pet rat.... ive not a clue thou if rats can carry this virus).

Your theory thou still dont explain why children often get CFS/ME when their parent has it.. but the spouses rarely do... if it was breathing in mouse poo dust, the spouses would be breathing it in too

 

[SickOfSickness]

Yeah I think you need the genetic weakness. Then exposure to XMRV. And probably also need stress or other illness to trigger it, so your immune system has less ability to deal with the XMRV? That's what others have suspected. So the spouse often would not have the weakness, and the kid often would. Except then we would expect spouses to be carriers almost all of the time.

 

[SickOfSickness]

Also people who live in the country probably do not get sick more often? In the country there are always mice like crazy, usually they get inside to get food. Well, unless the people get a cat to eat them.

I wonder if XMRV is at the root of the problem. Maybe I got some other virus/disease first, so I had "CFS" and was really prone to getting XMRV in the following months or years.

 

[Impish]

Summary of MuLV

In mice genetics come into play with whether or not you can get MuLV's. If you have the genetic ability to fight off MuLV's this can be taken away by a co-infection.

http://jvi.asm.org/cgi/reprint/83/21/11211.pdf
http://www.bioscience.org/u37153137/.../2167/2167.pdf

Interestingly enough in was found in mice that the same cell receptor that allows for MuLV to get in also allows in XMRV. This protein SYG1 (XPR1) in humans was found to allow in XMRV in humans (2nd Paper)

http://www.nature.com/ng/journal/v21/n2/abs/ng0299_216.html
http://www.pnas.org/content/104/5/1655.abstract

 

[acer2000]

All kinds of things come into play as to how to figure out transmission patterns of XMRV. It could be genetic susceptibility, it could be only contagious during certain phases on infection, it could be transmissible from mother to child (via breastfeeding) but not sexually, or not sexually all the time.

The severity of infection might depend on other factors like what co-infections you already harbor, or if you are already sick when you are exposed (ie after a surgery). The severity and presentation might also depend on the route of transmission.

Then there are the logistics. People who are ill with CFS don't often have sex because they are so ill, so assuming its sexually transmissible, its probably less likely to be spread that way. PWCs don't have much intimate contact in general. Even in HIV, you statistically need tens to thousands of exposures to become infected sexually depending on the viral load of the infecting partner, whether there are open sores in the area (direct to blood contact), method of sexual intercourse, and whether you are a man or a woman (men are rarely infected from women, but the opposite is not true). Male to male transmission is higher probability than heterosexual sex.

There is a whole lot they don't know about transmission in humans - but honestly I think we'd be better off looking at transmission patterns of MLVs in mice and FeLV in cats rather than using HIV as a model. HIV and HTLV are very different types of retroviruses. MLV and FeLV are both gammaretroviruses that there is decades of research on. They really ought to consult with some vet researchers on this.

Finally, it could just be - ignoring all of these factors... some people might just fight it off within the first few weeks and some might go on to be chronic. This appears to be true with some other viruses. For example some cats appear to be able to fight of FeLV completely, whereas some put it in latency (and can reactivate it upon "stress" or illness - sound familiar?), whereas some just get sick off the bat and end up dying of immune system problems and cancer.

The good news: There is a vaccine for FeLV. So in as much as XMRV is like FeLV, we might not have to wait very long for a vaccine to come.

We need them to agree on testing methods and the existence of the virus in general before they can put money into transmission studies. Thats part of the reason this nearly 1 year delay and fighting over the WPI paper is so fricking annoying. If they had replicated it off the bad easily, we would already be well on the way to answering these questions. But they didn't... so here we are. :-/

 

[Alesh]

For me the main suspects are the domestic cats-predators of mice.

Sunshine, my impression is that the health care professionals are the least ingeligent people, anything they don't understand or don't know is immediately called psychogenic. For them the somatization is like the god of the gaps.

 

[usedtobeperkytina]

I am beginning to believe that most of us alive today got it from our parents. I think, as we know, the illness has been around for over 100 years. And it just kept being passed on and on, through sex and blood. But also being passed parent to child. Then it just eventually hit critical mass.

But, I agree with Peterson also, there is another factor as to who gets the disease. Another infection that gives the immune system a one-two punch when combined with the retrovirus. Vaccines would have the same effect. Cortisol (which means stress can be a trigger) and hormones, could also make the difference in who develops the illness and who does.

I don't think genetics (except the retrovirus that is in the genes) affects it.

Good news, I see, is that it may not take that much to get this thing under control. Think about it, in HIV, the virus is aggressive and eventually the immune system fails and can not recover on its own. The person will die relatively soon.

But evidently, the immune system in CFSers is already putting up a good fight and holds its own for a long time. Also, seems some people do get better and even recover. (although a future relapse is always possible.)

Remember, Coffin said that the low replication rate of XMRV would not bode well for treatment. But, looks like that is not the case. Soooo, maybe if replication can be stopped, then our immune system can get a handle on it, since it is already fighting and sometimes winning on its own. Just a little boost and a little help in the battle, and it might work.

But I do think that if the virus gets into tissue, lots of it, then damage might be done that leads to cancers or a more permanent condition.

We'll just have to see, huh.

But I see lots of hope here.

 

[*GG*]

ohh.. your post just made me remembers something which i did many many years before i developed ME. i ATE a heap of mouse droppings!! They were in mollases and it was dark and i thought seeds had gotten into it.. and it wasnt till later that i realised that i ate a heap of mouse droppings.

(my daughter also had a Pet rat.... ive not a clue thou if rats can carry this virus).

Your theory thou still dont explain why children often get CFS/ME when their parent has it.. but the spouses rarely do... if it was breathing in mouse poo dust, the spouses would be breathing it in too

I think I just threw up in my mouth! Eww, you ate mouse droppings! I just lost my appetite. To Much Information! TMI


Probably depends upon who cleans up the mouse droppings and when? If your husband just left for work, and you discover mouse droppings and clean them up improperly, then perhaps only you get contact with the droppings/disease?

Spray down (dry) mouse droppings with water (a fluid) before trying to pick it up!

 

[Impish]

In Mice MuLV is transmitted in breast milk.

 

[SickOfSickness]

Excellent post:

All kinds of things come into play as to how to figure out transmission patterns of XMRV. It could be genetic susceptibility, it could be only contagious during certain phases on infection, it could be transmissible from mother to child (via breastfeeding) but not sexually, or not sexually all the time.

The severity of infection might depend on other factors like what co-infections you already harbor, or if you are already sick when you are exposed (ie after a surgery). The severity and presentation might also depend on the route of transmission.

Then there are the logistics. People who are ill with CFS don't often have sex because they are so ill, so assuming its sexually transmissible, its probably less likely to be spread that way. PWCs don't have much intimate contact in general. Even in HIV, you statistically need tens to thousands of exposures to become infected sexually depending on the viral load of the infecting partner, whether there are open sores in the area (direct to blood contact), method of sexual intercourse, and whether you are a man or a woman (men are rarely infected from women, but the opposite is not true). Male to male transmission is higher probability than heterosexual sex.

There is a whole lot they don't know about transmission in humans - but honestly I think we'd be better off looking at transmission patterns of MLVs in mice and FeLV in cats rather than using HIV as a model. HIV and HTLV are very different types of retroviruses. MLV and FeLV are both gammaretroviruses that there is decades of research on. They really ought to consult with some vet researchers on this.

Finally, it could just be - ignoring all of these factors... some people might just fight it off within the first few weeks and some might go on to be chronic. This appears to be true with some other viruses. For example some cats appear to be able to fight of FeLV completely, whereas some put it in latency (and can reactivate it upon "stress" or illness - sound familiar?), whereas some just get sick off the bat and end up dying of immune system problems and cancer.

The good news: There is a vaccine for FeLV. So in as much as XMRV is like FeLV, we might not have to wait very long for a vaccine to come.

We need them to agree on testing methods and the existence of the virus in general before they can put money into transmission studies. Thats part of the reason this nearly 1 year delay and fighting over the WPI paper is so fricking annoying. If they had replicated it off the bad easily, we would already be well on the way to answering these questions. But they didn't... so here we are. :-/

 

[bullybeef]

I mentioned this elsewhere, but bugs may also be modes of transmission.

Like bed bugs in hospitals, head lice in schools, and mosquitoes in Lake Tahoe:

Thinking about camping in Incline Village or Lake Tahoe this summer? .but if you go in early July you might have to fight off the mosquitoes.

See: http://ezinearticles.com/?Great-Camp...sin&id=4636931

BB