Microbiome - Butyrate - Inflammation

[Violeta]

NAD+ could be a good choice -- it participates in the NADH pathway - I suspect that the problems are due to high oxidative stress mainly caused by immune activation. Oxidative stress (oxidants) inhibits a multitude of metabolic pathways,

I bought NAD+ in liposomal form.

I have NAD, I will try taking it consistently.

I started taking ascorbyl palmitate, that's good for oxidative stress, too.

 

[Violeta]

NAD+ could be a good choice -- it participates in the NADH pathway - I suspect that the problems are due to high oxidative stress mainly caused by immune activation. Oxidative stress (oxidants) inhibits a multitude of metabolic pathways,

I bought NAD+ in liposomal form.

There is NAD in my B Complex. I have had overall improvement since starting it several years ago. I will start taking extra later in the day, to see if that helps even moreso.

With respect to oxidative stress, I am wondering about inefficiency of glutathione production. This, of course, brought me back to MTHFR. My brother had fatigue issues, although not as bad as me, and had genetics done. He does have MTHFR genetic pathology. I think it might run in the family.

I have to look more into that, but I did go straight to taking n-acetylcysteine for raising glutathione levels after reading that Pyrrhus had good results from it.

I'm finding the transsulfuration pathway very interesting, as I've had sulfur issues.

 

[LINE]

@Violeta Some suggest MTHFR mutations (genetic) may be some of the causative factors in ME. I did a genetic test (23 and me) sometime ago on the suggestions of a few ME people I don't recall, but I think that I did not have that. Regardless, methylation is an important metabolic cycle.

It is a simple but can be complex pathway. It does involve NAC and glutathione but also other sulfur aminos such as taurine and methionine (SAMe). But it does require B vitamins (and some minerals) to be activated. Amy Yasko has some information as does Ben Lynch. Methylfolate (folic acid) and B12 are necessary as other b vitamins such as B6, Choline, B2 and likely others. The pathway is interdependent meaning if you are low in one of those, it could potentially throw off the others. FYI, I find that Grok AI on X/Twitter to be quite helpful.

My methylation patterns are a little wonky and I can check that via blood pressure. Methylation ties directly into other pathways such as Acetyl Co A, AMPK and others.

These pathways are jammed up due to immune activation (read that inflammation or hyperinflammation)

 

[LINE]

@Violeta I did some deeper digging on LPS bacteria and how the body responds to their activity. LPS is a molecule that is found on the membrane of certain bacteria (gram negative) and the immune system is quite triggered with their presence. This inflammation is at the root of the metabolic dysregulation. It is quite possible that you may have these present.

 

[Violeta]

@Violeta I did some deeper digging on LPS bacteria and how the body responds to their activity. LPS is a molecule that is found on the membrane of certain bacteria (gram negative) and the immune system is quite triggered with their presence. This inflammation is at the root of the metabolic dysregulation. It is quite possible that you may have these present.

That's a very good thing to look at! I will start looking into that today.

I do take those B vitamins, choline, and I guess milk is a decent source of methionine.

Thank you so much for some direction. I really appreciate it.

 

[Violeta]

Yes, Serine levels. This was on the iollo.com test.

I also ran the CMA test which showed a few other things low like glutathione etc.

Are you going to supplement with asparagine or oxaloacetate?

I think this is interesting:

In Myalgic Encephalomyelitis/Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (ME/CFS), decreased urinary serine levels have been observed, while serum serine levels may be elevated. This suggests a potential dysfunction in serine metabolism within the body, potentially impacting various metabolic pathways.

In studies of Myalgic Encephalomyelitis/Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (ME/CFS), elevated levels of serine have been observed in the cerebrospinal fluid (CSF) of individuals with ME/CFS compared to healthy controls. Serine, an amino acid, is a precursor for several important molecules, including phospholipids and sphingomyelins. These molecules are involved in cell membrane structure and function

just found this while looking up transsulfuration:

The transsulfuration pathway is a metabolic pathway in which sulfur from homocysteine is transferred to serine, ultimately resulting in the synthesis of cysteine. It involves two key enzymes: cystathionine β-synthase (CBS) and cystathionine γ-lyase (CSE). This pathway is crucial for cysteine biosynthesis, which is important for various cellular processes, including protein synthesis and glutathione production.

 

[LINE]

@Violeta AI response to LPS and CFSME (inflammation, metabolic etc.)

https://x.com/i/grok/share/8cmfTnOrCDqfNiM6nanQmfaxB

 

[LINE]

I am on test #123789

Theory: A resistant bug is lodged in my gut causing hyperinflammation (this is true from observation and some testing). I do not know the bug's identification but I suspect it to be a gram negative producing LPS which is disrupting metabolic rates.

I have made numerous attempts, some successful (partial), some not.

1/ Use of Sonnes #7 bentonite clay which is quite effective in absorbing toxins, in this case, it is able to bind the LPS thus reducing inflammation. Sonne's is a little different in its composition as a bentonite clay, reports indicate that it more effective. I have used many types of binders such as activated charcoal, other clays, brown seaweed. Reducing LPS toxins can help preserve the barrier integrity (tight junction proteins) which will help butyrate producers (good bacteria) to take hold.

2/ I started again on unpasteurized sauerkraut from Cleveland Kraut in the hopes that the bacteria found in there will stop the bad bacteria. Reports of some of the bacteria (pediococcus) have shown its ability to kill off difficult infections. Will try for 1 week.

3/ Glutamine. This amino acid has been shown to be beneficial to the gut. Tried it before, may cause some neurological inflammation.

4/ Creatine 10g per day. Reports are now coming out that creatine can help with neurological which is affected by strong immune reactions. Basic vitamin and mineral nutrients should accompany creatine for conversion.

4/ Maintaining my antioxidants as usual, milk thistle combination (Solaray etc.) has always helped.

 

[LINE]

Information on creatine and CFSME
https://x.com/i/grok/share/KcX20c9MDG257b5AriQAs2K8M

Note that a "loading phase" is necessary at adequate amounts. Loading meaning that it might take 7-10 days at 10g per day for it to take effect. I had a report from a CFSME person that it helped, particularly in his sleep patterns.

It is a low-risk trial in both possible complications and cost.

 

[dt_96]

I am on test #123789

Theory: A resistant bug is lodged in my gut causing hyperinflammation (this is true from observation and some testing). I do not know the bug's identification but I suspect it to be a gram negative producing LPS which is disrupting metabolic rates.

I have made numerous attempts, some successful (partial), some not.

1/ Use of Sonnes #7 bentonite clay which is quite effective in absorbing toxins, in this case, it is able to bind the LPS thus reducing inflammation. Sonne's is a little different in its composition as a bentonite clay, reports indicate that it more effective. I have used many types of binders such as activated charcoal, other clays, brown seaweed. Reducing LPS toxins can help preserve the barrier integrity (tight junction proteins) which will help butyrate producers (good bacteria) to take hold.

2/ I started again on unpasteurized sauerkraut from Cleveland Kraut in the hopes that the bacteria found in there will stop the bad bacteria. Reports of some of the bacteria (pediococcus) have shown its ability to kill off difficult infections. Will try for 1 week.

3/ Glutamine. This amino acid has been shown to be beneficial to the gut. Tried it before, may cause some neurological inflammation.

4/ Creatine 10g per day. Reports are now coming out that creatine can help with neurological which is affected by strong immune reactions. Basic vitamin and mineral nutrients should accompany creatine for conversion.

4/ Maintaining my antioxidants as usual, milk thistle combination (Solaray etc.) has always helped.

Struggled with some gut issues myself, my thoughts on the matter.

All crazy guesses so grain of salt.

There's a large neurological/autonomic component that often isn't acknowledged as its not well understood or treatable.(Think IBS-M) Beyond just effecting stool consistency I think varying transit times can cause a disruption in where bacteria are located along with excess inflammation particularly during periods of Diarrhea/Short-Transit Time. If you hold diet constant and BMs are varying I suspect this is the actual cause.

1/ Haven't tried myself but seen them come up a bit in literature so might be something there
2/ Pro-biotics can be helpful in forcing changes in the gut however usually don't last very long and can unpleasant side effects.
It can be worth looking into Pre-Biotics, Resistant Starch Type 2, as a way to preferentially feed helpful bacteria. I've trialed this multiple times with mixed effects, be ready for a lot of gas/upset while adjusting.

***No/Low carb diets seem to be the most effective personally, think carnivore or restricted keto. This forces sugar, fibre, carbs down to zero starving alot of the over-active bacteria.(Also will act as an elimination diet, removing all potential allergens) Personally this stops all gas and reduces some aches. After a month or two slowly re-introduce a standard varied diet(Still lower refined carbs if possible) and see if there's any improvement.
*Side benefit is also trials Ketosis at the same time, can't say it was a huge difference personally but are some slight changes

Ultimately my theories still lay the blame with ongoing ANS dsyfunction so any gut fix is temporary until it destabalizes again.

3/ Tried 3x5mg dosing throughout the day for 2 months, no noticable improvement over baseline

4/ Usually take 5mg/day for health, mutiple years at this point. There is a loading period of about a month to increase phosphocreatine stores in the cell.(It's easy to track as it pulls in water/body weight with it) My crazy theories is this helps avoid acute glycolosis and helps keep the energy production using aerobic pathways, they seem to produce less junk if they work correctly. (Mostly guessing)
Been trailing 10mg doses more intermittently recently but haven't noticed any other effects.
Haven't noticed any real effects but there's decades of positive research so trusting them on this.

5/ I'm a big pusher of Tumeric/Curcumin for anti-inflammatory


tldr: Radical diet restrictions every couple months as a reset

 

[Violeta]

@LINE , Very interesting! Thanks for sharing your experimenting.

I started taking creatine around April 23rd. I don't know if it's helping, but I am pretty sure that I need it. My brother had started taking it, told me about it, I read more about it, it sounded good, so I bought some. Yes, not an expensive addition and a good idea.

I have intermittently been taking natural antibiotics (pau d'arco, grapefruit seed extract) and have to get more consistent. I think you are right about the lps. I bought some Wildbrine sauerkraut a couple of days ago, which is brave of me, because brassica vegetables, even when cultured, bother my thyroid and some vegetables bother my gut. I am going to give it a try, though. I also started making kombucha again.

I was wondering if herpesviruses can also cause LPS, because I always still have postherpetic neuralgia, can very easily put myself into a sub-flare, and other reasons, and found this:

No, herpesviruses do not directly cause LPS. Instead, research indicates that lipopolysaccharides (LPS), a component of gram-negative bacteria, can enhance the replication of some herpesviruses, such as herpes simplex virus type 1 (HSV-1). Specifically, LPS has been shown to promote HSV-1 replication and increase the release of IL-6 in epithelial cells. While herpesviruses themselves don't produce LPS, certain bacteria can influence their activity and replication, and some bacteria even play a role in LPS-mediated herpesvirus infection.

So I will work on the LPS/leaky gut and hope it helps with the viral area.

@dt_96 , that's a good point about resistant startch. I think I will work on that, too. I have some inulin, too, that I will make sure to add.

I have tried a ketogenic diet so many times, and while I do get some benefits, the downsides are so frustrating. I still keep working on diet and spend a disproportionate time on trying to figure out what to eat.

PS: Isn't it difficult to keep up with everything when you're tired.

 

[Rufous McKinney]

So I will work on the LPS/leaky gut and hope it helps with the viral area.

I wonder if there can be many other actual triggers, from leaky gut, of which we only seem to know about LPS.
I doubt just that one substance is the entire problem.

I still keep working on diet and spend a disproportionate time on trying to figure out what to eat.

I heard females do not do as well restricting carbohydrates, but I don t' know much more about that.

 

[Rufous McKinney]

I recently had to take a round of antibiotics. I noticed almost nothing happening digestion wise.

However, I got acutely low blood sugar attacks the first several days. Insulin resistance was messed up.

 

[Rufous McKinney]

unpasteurized sauerkraut

pasteurizing sauerkraut? why eat sauerkraut?

 

[Violeta]

@LINE I just looked up Cleveland Kitchen Kraut and I can't believe it but there are several stores near me that carry it. If I can make it through my whole jar of the stuff I just bought, I'll try that brand.

@Rufous McKinney , the reason for eating unpasteurized is because it contains probiotics.
And that's interesting that the antibiotic gave you low blood sugar.
I have heard that females don't do as well on very low carb, too, but never saw the reason behind it.

 

[Rufous McKinney]

@Rufous McKinney , the reason for eating unpasteurized is because it contains probiotics.

Yes, I worked in the labs, microbiology makes Saurkraut at the beginning of each semester.

The idea of pasteurizing it, defeats the purpose of wanting any in my opinion.

but never saw the reason behind it.

I think it's related to hormones we make. At least that was the story I heard a while ago.

 

[Rufous McKinney]

And that's interesting that the antibiotic gave you low blood sugar.

I read some antibiotics affect microbiome which is involved in insulin resistance

 

[Violeta]

Yes, I worked in the labs, microbiology makes Saurkraut at the beginning of each semester.

The idea of pasteurizing it, defeats the purpose of wanting any in my opinion.

OK, I see why you said that now.

 

[Rufous McKinney]

OK, I see why you said that now.

its Microbiology 101.

You make saurkraut, and discover you dont; have to do anything. The micro-organisms arrive on their own. Now you pass that Lab Test.

There was a recent public controversy over access to raw milk. Some people, want to consume raw milk and they have their real reasons. It is much much better for your health.

But it must be banned, because on a commercial scale, there are risks. Or if your farmer is not careful.

We were quite specifically seeking raw goats milk, produced by the local farmer.

It's cured some people, of health problems. But it must be banned.

 

[LINE]

@dt_96 Good recommendations -thanks for joining in.