Microbiome - Butyrate - Inflammation

Wishful

Senior Member
Messages
6,115
Location
Alberta
I am happy to share what natural antibiotics you can try. This would be the most logical solution to me.
I think it would be more logical to provide support for good bacteria. If you had a field with a weed problem, spraying kill-everything herbicide would get rid of the weeds, but also everything else, leaving bare soil for opportunistic weeds. Planting a cover crop that crowds out weeds might be more effective at getting the field back into healthy function.

If you knew which specific strain was a problem, and had an antibiotic that targeted only that strain, then that would be a better choice.

The gut and microbiome have a complex interaction. It seems that the gut cells and immune cells differentiate between good and bad strains, and help the good ones, even helping them form biofilms for the benefit of the gut. As with antibiotics, a kill-everything biofilm buster isn't the best solution for that.

One tactic I don't recall reading about is abrupt changes in diet. The microbiome is supposed to respond fairly quickly to what's passing through, with some strains quickly growing, and others dying back. So, going meat-only for a few days, then high-pectin fruit-only, then whole grains, and so forth, might change the battlefields for the various strains, giving the good ones a chance to win some battles. If you know what the bad strain is, and what conditions it prefers, then you could tailor your diet to avoid what it likes.

Rather than simple tactics (ie. antibiotics), more varied tactics would likely be more effective. The more information you have about the enemy, the better your battle plans.

No nukes. Nukes are bad.
 

Wishful

Senior Member
Messages
6,115
Location
Alberta
So weirsky tho , if i still had some a etatw producing bacteria, why didnt those grow witg previotic foods.
The appendix is supposed to maintain a population of good bacteria. Maybe multiple factors are making it hard for those strains to repopulate the appropriate regions. Just adding some general-purpose prebiotic foods might not be enough. You might need to add specific foods in a specific order. Maybe one good strain needs another strain to be in place first. Then there's the gut cells and immune cells, which might change the status of a specific strain, identifying it as a harmful invader rather than a good neighbour.

Despite having my appendix, I somehow lost a critical fibre-eating strain for about a year, and one probiotic capsule fixed that. Then, after a more recent gut disturbance, I became intolerant of some foods again. Our guts just aren't as simple as a car engine, where you can simply swap out a bad part for a new one.

I recently read that the gut cells send signal to the t-cells to tell them which food molecules they should ignore. Back when my ME started, I suddenly developed a type IV reaction (t-cells) to most foods. 2.5 years later, a bout of food poisoning abruptly stopped that type IV reaction. So, did my ME change a signal critical for t-cell identification of molecules, and food poisoning switched it back again? This certainly doesn't seem to be a common event in people, but it obviously can occur. So, if you have a gut problem that seems highly unlikely, don't assume that means that it's impossible.
 

vision blue

Senior Member
Messages
1,973
@wisful good and interesting points. One odd thing is since this gi infection, i seem to be tolerating fior first time in megayears amine containing foods! At first i thought i just wasnt absorbing food- so not absorbing amines eitger- but have started to wonder if a different population of microbiota has chsnged my amine i tolerance. If so, that would be one silver lining to this rather big storm cloud.
I believe my appendix stores were wiped out, because for the six months preceding my G.I. infection, I actually had chronic loss - I think what happened was in my attempt to eat healthy which meant eating millet and sweet potatoes instead of white pasta all the time I think actually i damaged ny small intestine and other gut linings and that started all of us in motion but then the G.I. infection that was severe wiped out what was left including now depleted appendix stores

Its awesome one ptrobiotic dose actually fixed that. Hope you now return in your new bout of tolerating everything.

Probiotics now are risky for me because in current vilnerable state, i may be colonized with overgrowths from the supplemnt. Have been told (from, but not entirely from, chst got that i can try non colonizing strains of probiotic bacteria. There are two common ones- i forget off hand the name.

Found this article
https://www.nature.com/articles/mi201675
Havent finished it yet but many of the recommendations are obes chat got or me have come up with

@LINE i think its great you want to research this beast and if course thanks for helo you give otgerd . But if you want me to consider giving my data for one of your research studies, youll need to do it properly. Formal study invitation, documentation of IRB approval from your institution, formal written consenting procedures. Ny view here is that people in the members only forum need to feel free to share their results without fears its going to be scraped and used in research studies without their permission. Ive pulled the data i posted off the forum fir now. if you already downloaded it I am requesting you destroy it since you have not asked for my permission to use it in a study.
 

vision blue

Senior Member
Messages
1,973
@Violeta Looks like grapefruit extract that you mentioned to orevent the other thing also kills enterbacter cloacae complex , son guess now thats the reason i still need it! Seems to kill off everything- wonder what it does to good bacteria- Tho perhaps I don’t have any of those to worry about
 

Wishful

Senior Member
Messages
6,115
Location
Alberta
The production of butyrate by intestinal anaerobic bacteria is dramatically increased by BBR,
I haven't read the citation for that claim, but I'm guessing it's not a proven dramatic effect. Pectin has a dramatically different ration of acetate/butyrate/propionate production compared to most other fibre. I'm guessing that berberine isn't the equivalent for boosting butyrate.
 
Back