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Micro nutrient deficiency causes ME/CFS not germs

datadragon

Senior Member
Messages
393
Location
USA
From my understanding, Blood is a transport system only. It carries minerals/vitamins/metals and toxins to where they are needed, or take them to be excreted. A blood test shows what is present at that moment in the blood transport system and works well for vitamins. The blood is controlled (homeostatic) to attempt to remain in a tight range in order to protect the body with metals and minerals. The body will rob the cells, tissues, and bones for example of magnesium in order to remain as best it can in the 'healthy' range blood level. What this means is that the blood status of magnesium can appear completely healthy even when the cells are completely starved of magnesium. When the blood level of calcium drops low, calcium is also robbed from the bone to boost up the blood level. So then the blood level still appears fine even though deficiency may be happening in the bone. It seems less then 1% of a bodys magnesium is even in the blood, so using blood only as an indicator may lead to false belief things are normal. Should you ingest a bag of bannanas before a blood test, it would be likely your blood serum result would show higher potassium. However thats just that one moment in time when you had a lot of potassium there, while in reality the cellular levels of potassium may be dangerously low and need supplementation.

Metals are similar, the body attempts to remove excess from the blood by excretion or storing in cells and tissues if the bodys detox pathways are not working efficiently. So if you were to be exposed to a significant one time lead exposure, and went to get a blood test for lead within a week of the exposure, yes the blood test may show a higher level of lead and doctors would catch it.. But if the blood test was done 2 or more months after the exposure, the blood would show normal. So here is why once the immediate source of an exposure such as to copper or mercury is removed, the blood will return to normal even though toxic levels are now stored in the bodys tissues. This is one reason why the copper issue isnt more known, as levels are only higher in blood when its coming in or when its being mobilized back to be excreted. If copper has accumulated and is tightly stored in the tissues, and adrenal function is too weak to mobilize that stored copper, it's not going to show up in the blood!

HTMA shows 3 months of whats been circulating. A bit better for catching the acute exposures to see where its coming from. For metals, should your adrenals be too weak, it too will only show current exposures during that time such as iud, food and drink ingestion, but would not reflect tissue storage yet at first. I had mercury show up for example due to amalgams and seafood I ate, but nothing else. Once the adrenals are brought back up, the body will start to mobilize the stored metals and they will begin to show on the tests and thats when the other metals came out and started showing on the tests. https://drlwilson.com/Articles/MIN.IDEALS.htm is a new list of values for poor and very poor eliminators, meaning it may give some indication that there are 'hidden' metals rather then you have none. A copper below 1.5 when you have been eating it normally without excess zinc intake and weak adrenals are indicators for stored copper. You can look at other key indicators such as a high calcium, low potassium, a Ca/K ratio over 10, low molybdenum (<.003), low Na/K, and a number of other levels and ratios to understand what may be happening with copper due to its effect on other things.

As far as minerals, it was useful to know the trace minerals levels, and the others such as boron, chromium, selenium, lithium, cobalt, sulfur etc. The main minerals it is the ratios of mineral pairs that tell whats going on rather then the single nutrient values. No test is perfect. Looking at any one mineral level in isolation may not give the full picture. Take magnesium, for example. If the hair chart shows high magnesium, is it really high and should lessen supplementation? Not necessarily, as stress depletes magnesium and most people are magnesium deficient. So if you look at the ratio between sodium and potassium, known as the stress ratio, and you see a high Na/K ratio, then know that the individual is under a lot of stress, and that the higher magnesium level is representing an intracellular loss of magnesium which shows up higher in the hair from this loss but indicates magnesium deficiency or at least lower then what it appears to be. So in a couple instances like high stress, or weak adrenals, the level shown of a couple minerals may not reflect the full status if only looked at individually.

When stressors are ongoing, one action of the sympathetic nervous system is to shunt the blood away from the eliminative organs such as the liver and kidneys, and move it toward the muscles and brain to mount a fight-or-flight response. When this occurs chronically, as it does in a person with ongoing stressors, the person’s ability to eliminate all types of toxins diminishes significantly and metals build up in tissues.
 
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datadragon

Senior Member
Messages
393
Location
USA
Low usable copper can cause lower nitric oxide levels. Copper is however required to be attached to ceruloplasmin to be usable at all by the body. nitric oxide (NO) kills or inhibits the replication of a variety of intracellular pathogens. Mercury which can also accumulate was mentioned above also inhibits NO.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/18037129/
Cu deficiency decreases superoxide dismutase activity and increases superoxide anions, which can interact with nitric oxide (NO), reducing the NO pool size.

Iron and copper as virulence modulators in human fungal pathogens.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24851950

Ceruloplasmin, a copper-containing plasma enzyme, catalyzes the oxidation of the ferrous ion to ferric ion, and thereby enables iron to be trapped by transferring (a protein transporting iron in the blood). It is then transported to tissues for the synthesis of iron-containing compounds, especially hemoglobin. If copper is not usable by not being attached to ceruloplasmin, then iron will also be effected.

The mitochondia requires copper for completing the electron transport where our energy is produced. But it must be attached to ceruloplasmin. Magnesium is needed for ATP which is depleted from the stressors such as the metal accumulation.

https://www.hindawi.com/journals/mi/2009/729172/

Zinc by the way is very important for metallothionein synthesis. One of the roles of MT is to bind to copper for usage by the body or for removal and excretion. So without adequate zinc, MT synthesis is impaired, which can further allow metals such as copper and other toxins to build up.

https://metabolichealing.com/metall...issing-puzzle-piece-for-alzheimers-leaky-gut/

The zinc deficiency causes immunity problems:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2277319/

https://web.archive.org/web/2018030...thalamic-pituitary-adrenal-axis/#.WxW4mUgvzIV
Cortisol’s weakening effects on the immune response have also been well documented. T-lymphocyte cells are an essential component of cell-mediated immunity. T-cells respond to cytokine molecules called interleukins via a signaling pathway. Cortisol blocks T-cells from proliferating by preventing some T-cells from recognizing interleukin signals. It also stifles inflammation due to inhibition of histamine secretion. Cortisol’s ability to prevent the promulgation of the immune response can render individuals suffering from chronic stress highly vulnerable to infection.

A role for cortisol in memory has also been demonstrated. The hippocampus, the region of the brain where memories are processed and stored, contains many cortisol receptors. While normal cortisol levels have no adverse effects on the hippocampus, excess cortisol overwhelms the hippocampus and actually causes atrophy. Studies of the elderly have indicated that those with elevated cortisol levels display significant memory loss resulting from hippocampus damage, but the exact age range at risk is unclear. There is a reprieve, however, for the chronically stressed: the damage incurred is usually reversible

Low vitamin B6 levels have been associated with a decreased production of lymphocytes, which leads to impaired immune function. Furthermore, a deficiency in vitamin B6 can wreak havoc on the body because it can result in a form of anemia that is similar to iron deficiency anemia – leaving the body listless and fatigued. As previously mentioned, the nervous and immune systems need vitamin B6 to function optimally. Magnesium, Zinc, and B2 are needed for B6 conversion to P5P.

Magnesium, zinc, B1 and B6 are needed to make stomach acid. Also without enough zinc, a body lacks the ability to retain potassium. No matter how much potassium you eat it is not being retained. Adequate potassium is needed for hydrochloric acid secretion in the stomach.

Copper:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4928837/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5512462/
 
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perrier

Senior Member
Messages
1,254
Someone please help. Our family member has been having, since about 6 months very extreme hair loss. This is daily huge losses. Which supplements might we offer. She is not taking many supplements except for digestion (enzymes, etc) due to GI problems.

In the course of this long nightmare there has not been severe hair loss, but now it is alarming.

I read about copper and zinc.

Which would be most important to introduce?
Thank you.
 

JES

Senior Member
Messages
1,320
@perrier Biotin is commonly advertised for hair loss and seems relatively safe to take even in large amounts.
 

pamojja

Senior Member
Messages
2,384
Location
Austria
A book (in german) about micronutrients says..

.. that it could be caused by oral contraceptives with progestins, deficient diet (essential fatty-acids, iron, zinc, biotin, copper, vitamin and sulfur-containing aminoacids).

Recomments to test for iron (Ferritin >70 mcg/l), essential fatty-acids, biotin, thioles, vitamin B6, copper, zinc.

Suggested dosages:
Iron (only in deficiency!): IVs or 50-100 mg iron oral with target Ferritin >70
Zinc: 15-30 mg (≥ 6 months)
Biotin: 2.5-5 mg (≥ 6 months)
Vitamin B-complex: 50-100 mg (esp. vitamin B6)
L-cystein, NAC, L-methionine: 200-500 mg
Vitamin A: 3000-7500 IU
Vitamin C, vitamin E: 200-500 mg, 200-500 IU
Panthotenic acid (vitamin B5): 500-2000 mg
Copper, selen, iodine: 1-3 mg, 100-300 mg, 50-200 mcg
Omega-3 fatty acids (EPA, DHA): 1-3 g

additionaly a preparation with silicia and alcaline minerals

Can't endorse these suggestions since I don't suffer hair-loss (actually just shaved my long hair for a change..) and already take most of those nutrients mostly at higher doses for other conditions for many years. Would also recommend to start with one at a time with the lowest possible dose possible (by starting with half of a capsule..) and increase gradually over time, while adding in others.

The only problem I got was when deficient in zinc and increasing up to 60 mg/d I got headaches, which got alleviated by 1 mg/d of copper. However, 2 years later my zinc still bottom low, copper had gone to higher then normal. Which I'm again years latter still at trying to correct.
 
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renski

Senior Member
Messages
338
Location
Honolulu
In this post the opinion of someone with more experience with HTMA: https://forums.phoenixrising.me/ind...tivity-th-resistance.58209/page-9#post-973680

In my case that kind of interpretation was confirmed by comparing either serum or whole blood test to also done 8 yearly HTMAs. Calcium, sodium, potassium, phosphorus, zinc, copper and iron had a good association, magnesium less (which as already alluded to, serum electrolyte often can't assess nutritional status accurately too). The reason I couldn't find association with the other essential trace minerals lies more in the fact, that these conventional blood or serum tests are so bloody expensive and I simply couldn't afford them done.

Agree HTMA is useful, I think for money/value it's one of the best tests you can do, has to be done in conjunction with other tests though otherwise it can give some misinformation.