Methylation roadblock - shallow breathing - please help

Mary

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@xinamatusx - I'm afraid your questions about calcium and magnesium and potassium are beyond my experience. I don't know if you could have low intracellular calcium but normal blood levels. However, I bet someone here might have some answers or at least suggestions. I'd suggest a new thread with the title asking specifically about the interrelationship between these electrolytes, or about serum calcium vs. intracellular calcium. Wish I could help!
 

Mary

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If anybody knows of a link between the cell's CO2 output and superoxide neutralisation, I'd love to hear it!
@seamyb - interesting theories! I'd suggest you start a new thread too, asking these questions. I think your question would just be buried in this thread as the title only talks about shallow breathing and methylation roadblock.

I have been experimenting with various breathing techniques, including box (4-sided) breathing (used by Navy seals and other people in high stress jobs! as well as others) which I've found very calming and helps with sleep. I've also been doing a lot of reading about breathing, specifically The Oxygen Advantage by Patrick McKeown and Breath, by James Nestor. I've sort of skimmed them, but they're very interesting. I haven't learned anything in depth yet (no fault to those authors!) but have got a general idea about C02 and breathing, and how it is important to have enough C02 (it's not all about getting as much oxygen as possible) and it is possible to increase one's C02 levels with specific breathing techniques. So there may be something to your theories and I think it would make a very interesting discussion! Also, thanks to @Hopeful2021 for getting me interested in this in the first place!
 
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@seamyb - interesting theories! I'd suggest you start a new thread too, asking these questions. I think your question would just be buried in this thread as the title only talks about shallow breathing and methylation roadblock.

I have been experimenting with various breathing techniques, including box (4-sided) breathing (used by Navy seals and other people in high stress jobs! as well as others) which I've found very calming and helps with sleep. I've also been doing a lot of reading about breathing, specifically The Oxygen Advantage by Patrick McKeown and Breath, by James Nestor. I've sort of skimmed them, but they're very interesting. I haven't learned anything in depth yet (no fault to those authors!) but have got a general idea about C02 and breathing, and how it is important to have enough C02 (it's not all about getting as much oxygen as possible) and it is possible to increase one's C02 levels with specific breathing techniques. So there may be something to your theories and I think it would make a very interesting discussion! Also, thanks to @Hopeful2021 for getting me interested in this in the first place!
I will post a new thread.... but when I'm sure it's the manganese and when I'm confident it's sorted long term (you know how it is, eureka! and then oh no wait it's back). There is at least one other person who noted that manganese solved air hunger, so I've high hopes.

Interestingly, my illness began with air hunger for a month. Then it disappeared at the same time the more indicative CFS symptoms started. I was exercising heavily at the time. Oxidative stress leading to depletion of superoxide dismutase leading to depletion of B12 and a block in the methylation cycle? I really want it to be that because it means I'll soon be cured.
 
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I will post a new thread.... but when I'm sure it's the manganese and when I'm confident it's sorted long term (you know how it is, eureka! and then oh no wait it's back). There is at least one other person who noted that manganese solved air hunger, so I've high hopes.

Interestingly, my illness began with air hunger for a month. Then it disappeared at the same time the more indicative CFS symptoms started. I was exercising heavily at the time. Oxidative stress leading to depletion of superoxide dismutase leading to depletion of B12 and a block in the methylation cycle? I really want it to be that because it means I'll soon be cured.
@seamyb How many mg of manganese are you taking? My trace minerals complex only has 2 mg.
 
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@seamyb How many mg of manganese are you taking? My trace minerals complex only has 2 mg.
I was only taking a bit more than that.

I'm starting to doubt whether it was the manganese now. Possibly the carnitine? Have you been taking carnitine? It's so hard to figure this out but I've been able to keep the air hunger away after dropping the manganese. Now all I'm taking is folate, B12 and carnitine.
 
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I was only taking a bit more than that.

I'm starting to doubt whether it was the manganese now. Possibly the carnitine? Have you been taking carnitine? It's so hard to figure this out but I've been able to keep the air hunger away after dropping the manganese. Now all I'm taking is folate, B12 and carnitine.
@seamyb No, I‘ve never taken carnitine. What is it supposed to do?
 

Booble

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Not supplement related but to help out with the feeling of needing to get more air in your breaths, a good solution is to focus on your out breathing. What happens is we don't let out enough breath and so there is no room for the new. The more you can exhale, the less you will feel the need for more inhale. Try it, you'll see!
 
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@xinamatusx so, I've stopped Carnitine as well. I've only been taking B12, methylfolate and folinic acid. I increased the methylfolate and added the folinic acid. I take 200 mcg of each of them. My air hunger has been completely gone, so it was upping my folate which stopped B12 from causing it.

I see you're already taking methylfolate. You say you take 680 DFE of it. What is this in mcg?
 
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This lowered my histamine symptoms enough to allow me to take a low dose fish oil supplement. I have an ongoing essential fatty acid deficiency that I need to address.
As an alternative to fish oil, I have used a product by Pure & Essential called "Concentrated Vegan Omega-3 & Astaxanthin". It contains DHA and EPA derived from algae. The label says it is free from fish.
 

CedarHome

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Oxalates are a unique toxin found in many plant based foods. They cannot be detoxed by methylation or Phase I or Phase II detox.

Lowoxalate.info and the Trying Low Oxalates FB group have info on them, and the FB group has the most accurate low oxalate food spreadsheet.

Oxalates increase oxidative stress, so methylation, which leads to glutathione production may help a bit. They can also cause depletion of minerals and osteoporosis, as well as B6 deficiency, which is needed for methylation. They can cause pain through the formation of sharp crystals in organs, muscles, or joints, like kidney stones.

The Great Plains OAT test or a urine test from a standard lab can identify this problem, which can be genetic for some.

Treatment includes a low oxalate diet, taking citrate before every meal and keeping B6 normal. This will slowly reduce oxalates in the body.
This is extremely helpful, thank you!!
 
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It's possible that you couldn't tolerate the form of potassium you took. 200 mg is not very much, when the RDA is 4700 mg. Potassium citrate exacerbated or may have even caused a bladder infection for me but I do well with potassium gluconate. However, potassium gluconate gave my sister diarrhea so she couldn't tolerate it.

Low potassium can cause breathing difficulties (8 Signs and Symptoms of Potassium Deficiency (Hypokalemia) (healthline.com) and it's well-documented that hypokalemia can arise when treating a folate and/or B12 deficiency. This post has some links which talk about this.

So I'd suggest you try drinking a couple of glasses of low-sodium V-8 if you try the B12 or folate again and the breathlessness recurs. If low potassium is the issue, I think you'd see results within a few hours of drinking the low-sodium V-8. I stress "low-sodium" because it's higher in potassium than regular V-8.
@Mary Hi Mary. I came back from the ER last night. I was having episodes of severe weakness, shortness of breath, and numbness in extremities. The only thing they found was low potassium of 3.2. They gave me 40 meq (3000 mg) through pills. But when I asked the doctor he said the low potassium wouldn’t be the cause of any of my symptoms o_O I didn’t argue with him, but based of what I’ve read here I don’t think that’s the case.

To my understanding, the serum potassium only becomes low after the intracellular level is severely depleted. I want to keep my levels from falling again. Now that I’m home, what’s a good amount of potassium to take?
 
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@xinamatusx so, I've stopped Carnitine as well. I've only been taking B12, methylfolate and folinic acid. I increased the methylfolate and added the folinic acid. I take 200 mcg of each of them. My air hunger has been completely gone, so it was upping my folate which stopped B12 from causing it.

I see you're already taking methylfolate. You say you take 680 DFE of it. What is this in mcg?
@seamyb It is 400 mcg. Yes, I was also considering the possibility of paradoxical folate deficiency and that I needed to take more folate, but I was nervous about doing so since the 400 mcg making me feel off.
 
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Hi @seamyb and @xinamatusx , i'm experiencing a very similar issue.
I have homozygous a1298c mthfr and panic disorder with anxiety and ocd. I was stable on anti-anxiety meds. I tried to start with methylation support by taking methylb12 (without folate, i know :(, that was stupid) for 4-5months.

I was taking 5000 mcg methylb12 for about 4 months. I started getting headaches at the end of 4 months. So i stopped and tried a homeopathic cell salt to reduce the anxiety (potassium phosphate). I took them for 2 days and from the second day night I feel like I need to catch my breath always and have constant air hunger.

After some lab tests, potassium, sodium, magnesium look good, also high b12 (1580). But i have low Co2 in blood (18). I did not test for phosphate.

This started mid-feb and has never gone down at all. On top of it, my overthinking and over panic triggered gerd. I don't know what could have caused this, i have seen posts stating methyl b12 could cause this and sod issues. I really need help :(, i'm terrified out of my mind, i have a sudden onset of ocd symptoms too.
 
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Hi @seamyb and @xinamatusx , i'm experiencing a very similar issue.
I have homozygous a1298c mthfr and panic disorder with anxiety and ocd. I was stable on anti-anxiety meds. I tried to start with methylation support by taking methylb12 (without folate, i know :(, that was stupid) for 4-5months.

I was taking 5000 mcg methylb12 for about 4 months. I started getting headaches at the end of 4 months. So i stopped and tried a homeopathic cell salt to reduce the anxiety (potassium phosphate). I took them for 2 days and from the second day night I feel like I need to catch my breath always and have constant air hunger.

After some lab tests, potassium, sodium, magnesium look good, also high b12 (1580). But i have low Co2 in blood (18). I did not test for phosphate.

This started mid-feb and has never gone down at all. On top of it, my overthinking and over panic triggered gerd. I don't know what could have caused this, i have seen posts stating methyl b12 could cause this and sod issues. I really need help :(, i'm terrified out of my mind, i have a sudden onset of ocd symptoms too.
Hey @viola3 I feel for you. I made some mistakes as well and am now trying to play clean up. These types of symptoms are definitely scary. Potassium helped me a lot... but not completely. Have you tried it at all? Serum potassium does not reflect intracellular levels. The same goes for magnesium. Both of these are better ordered as RBC tests if you have the option. Your doctor most likely won't order them for you from my experience but I use a service that lets me order my own blood work.
 
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@xinamatusx i don't know what RBC tests are. Could you point me to it ? I'll definitely add on potassium (99mg), will that suffice ? I also seem to have low iron for some reason.
 
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@xinamatusx i don't know what RBC tests are. Could you point me to it ? I'll definitely add on potassium (99mg), will that suffice ? I also seem to have low iron for some reason.
For example, and RBC Magnesium lab test would shown intracellular levels of magnesium. Same for an RBC potassium lab test (I don't know many people who have this one done though).

Mary gave some good guidance regarding potassium on the first page of this thread. 99mg is not much and would only help me for a little while before symptoms returned. However, I personally don't feel comfortable taking more than 600 mg as I start to get palpitations. Some people take a lot more than that. Maybe try potassium foods if you can. Mary suggests low sodium V8. I would recommend magnesium supplementation if you can tolerate it as it helps to retain the potassium you consume. However, start very low and slow with it because it can make the air hunger worse.

Yes, I believe low iron is common with poor methylation. My levels are always low again a few months after I stop iron supplements. I think you will feel better if you correct the iron deficiency. This can cause shortness of breath as well.
 
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@xinamatusx so, I've stopped Carnitine as well. I've only been taking B12, methylfolate and folinic acid. I increased the methylfolate and added the folinic acid. I take 200 mcg of each of them. My air hunger has been completely gone, so it was upping my folate which stopped B12 from causing it.

I see you're already taking methylfolate. You say you take 680 DFE of it. What is this in mcg?
so based on this, do you think you were in a donut hole deficiency?