Methylation - Help!

[Soccermanjb]

I have shmt +/+ along with other mutations. I hope someone can help. I planned to start supporting the shmt with lactoferrin, nucleotides and low dose folinic acid like Yasko suggests.

I am very sensitive to supplements. Every time I start the methylation treatment I get prostate pain after about the 4th day. Maybe I just have to start as low dose as I can.

My question is why the prostate pain and other symptoms? I would love any ideas or help. Thank you in advance.

Here are my mutations.

 

[2manyhobbies]

I am NOT qualified to interpret your symptoms but will tell you that methylation requires larger amounts of Zinc than is usually available in diet.

Also you may have some absorption issues due to gut inflammation so can't effectively absorb dietary Zinc.

The male prostate requires high amounts of zinc to function properly and your methylation startup may be further depleting your body pool.

 

[Soccermanjb]

Thank you for your feedback. For a about 8 months my doc had me taking 75mg of zinc a day but after seeing recent blood work he dropped it down to 50mg. It's happened about 5 times now that whenever I try to start up my methyl cycle after about 4 days the prostate pain and symptoms flare up.

I'm wondering if there isn't some weird connection with potassium. I know that potassium is an issue with CFS but I think I must just need to do things at an extremely slow pace... I normally do but I guess even lower and slower... I have horrible gut issues so it seems like when I take potassium it doesn't take and I can never catch up with potassium need so I have to stop.

I just haven't seen anyone else with this weird prostate reaction issue when starting methylation up.

 

[Soccermanjb]

I did find this:
"Inflammation of the prostate is associated with a high sodium/potassium ratio whereas a prostate infection is connected with a low sodium/potassium ratio as this represents an infectious process pattern."

I'm going to try increasing potassium...

http://www.thewolfeclinic.com/index...18-prostate-health-healthy-prostate-happy-man

 

[PeterPositive]

I am NOT qualified to interpret your symptoms but will tell you that methylation requires larger amounts of Zinc than is usually available in diet.

Also you may have some absorption issues due to gut inflammation so can't effectively absorb dietary Zinc.

The male prostate requires high amounts of zinc to function properly and your methylation startup may be further depleting your body pool.

What do you think should be an adequate amount of Zinc to support methylation? 20-25mg? more?

Thanks

 

[Coolie]

I'm hoping a mod will shortly move my thread into the B12 section so I can tell you my story. Just wanted to but in here, to say that I take 30mg of Zinc as a 25mg Zinc tablet and 5mg in a multi vitamin, and if I try to take a second 25mg Zinc making 55mg I immediately get head aches which is extremely unusual for me as I never get head aches normally. Too much Zinc is a bad thing.

 

[PeterPositive]

Yes, normally anything between 15-30mg should be sufficient. The RDA is around 10mg. So higher doses can be used for some time if you are deficient, unless there are other problems such as Pyroluria where apparently the need for zinc becomes much higher.

When I started taking zinc I could barely tolerate one 7mg capsule. Now I take 30mg + 500mcg copper from a multivitamin, but I think I won't take it for more than 3-4 months. Then I'll probably take a pause for some time.

At this dosage it seems to be helping the immune system. My recurring flu-like symptoms are not so recurring as they used to be.

 

[Soccermanjb]

Yes, normally anything between 15-30mg should be sufficient. The RDA is around 10mg. So higher doses can be used for some time if you are deficient, unless there are other problems such as Pyroluria where apparently the need for zinc becomes much higher.

When I started taking zinc I could barely tolerate one 7mg capsule. Now I take 30mg + 500mcg copper from a multivitamin, but I think I won't take it for more than 3-4 months. Then I'll probably take a pause for some time.

At this dosage it seems to be helping the immune system. My recurring flu-like symptoms are not so recurring as they used to be.

I've never had any flu like symptoms from taking zinc.. Maybe I'm just a weird CFS case. I've always felt like that. Like I'm all alone and noone else like me...

 

[PeterPositive]

I've never had any flu like symptoms from taking zinc.. Maybe I'm just a weird CFS case. I've always felt like that. Like I'm all alone and noone else like me...

I was meaning that zinc helps, along with vit C, to relieve flu-like symptoms, sore throat, runny nose etc... at least for me.

 

[Soccermanjb]

Oh ok! Good!

 

[caledonia]

I haven't heard of prostate pain as an issue, but depending on how much methylfolate and B12 you're taking, a time lag of 4 days before pain starts could be potassium as you suggested.

With SHMT +/+ and bad gut issues, my suggestion, however, would be to start with the 4R Gut Rebuilding Program and SHMT support first for a few months, before attempting methylation support. The link is in my signature.

I have many other useful links in my signature - please read Start Low and Go Slow and Roadblocks to Successful Methylation before proceeding.

 

[Soccermanjb]

Ok thank you so much! I am planning to start nucleotides lactoferrin and low dose folinic acid for shmt support like Yasko says.

Will even doing that be starting up the methylation cycle? It would wouldn't it? I will read those! I have read so much already but there is always more to learn! How do I access your signature? I can't see it... Wonder if it's because I'm on mobile version.

I did Google search and found your post about the 4R gut protocol. I am doing and have tried a lot of the stuff on the list. I'm so sensitive and intolerant to food and supps that I eat pretty much the same stuff every day and I can only take things like glutamine in really small doses.

Even probiotics I can only take very little. I'm praying that supporting shmt will help my gut to tolerate more and improve like Yasko says it could.

 

[Soccermanjb]

I realized something yesterday that I misread something Yasko said. I took iron for 4 days and I wasn't supposed to. This is what she said iron does from her Facebook:

"Iron drives bacterial virulence and it is especially an issue if you are SHMT + so think about the SHMT supports and if needed extra lactoferrin."

I am SHMT+/+!!! Lol (dumb mistake)

So it's possible I may have just spread a bacterial infection to my prostate... I never have issues with colds... Since I've had CFS I have only gotten about 3 colds in three years... But I do battle prostate symptoms more often than colds. Maybe prostate infections are my battle? Maybe even when I start detoxing...

 

[2manyhobbies]

There are just sooo many bases to cover when kicking in a system that hasn't been working well for probably years.

As Caledonia says you need to fix the gut before you try to right your nutrient levels--you are literally throwing your money away if your absorption is bad.

As far as milligram amounts go it's not so much what you are taking as it is what you are absorbing.

There is a need to balance Zinc with Copper and Iron as they all rely on the same gut carriers.

I believe too much Zinc (>40-50 Elemental mgs) daily could put you in serious Copper deficiency--copper is needed for certain detox reactions and low copper may be implicated in aneurysms.

Depleting Iron may take longer but also has tragic results as you need oxygen rich blood to defeat viruses and parasites. Taking iron with a bacterial infection is not good.

If it were me I would do a parasite cleanse then an herbal for H-Pylori--repeating it in 10 days and maybe again in a month as your immune system is still weak and needs help. Oil of oregeno should knock out your UTI and any way ward bacterial or viral infections. Use a brand with a high potency of the aromatic oil- carvacol --I think.

Then replenish your gut bacteria and try some Zn and K and perhaps some methylation nutrients.

It's a delicate dance.

 

[Soccermanjb]

Thx @2manyhobbies! I've actually been trying to work on my gut for quite some time now with no success. I'm really hoping shmt support will change that. I also just recently completed a 21 day course of antibiotics to treat parasites. I tried the herbal route but my gut will not tolerate organic powders and herbs like berberine etc. And I have been tested for h pylori and came back negative but I know they can be hard to detect.

So I'm planning to do shmt support. I'm not quite sure what Yasko is calling low dose folinic acid. In one place she said low dose like in actifolate which has 800mcg but in shmt support spray she has 50mcg. Also I'm not sure how much lactoferrin to take. In the spray I think it's about 185 mg and nucleotides is 250 mg.

Which should I start first: folinic acid, lactoferrin, or nucleotides? Our does it not really matter?

I know to start these 1 at a time and as low as I can and go really slow. It's not too late to heal my gut is it? It's not too far gone right? Won't my gut start to heal as I get shmt support in place?

 

[PeterPositive]

@Soccermanjb I'd be glad to know if Yasko's supplements works for you as I am in a pretty similar boat as you are. SHMT snips, gut issues, tried a tons of remedies, very little success. Keep us posted, if you can.

 

[Soccermanjb]

I will keep you posted @PeterPositive but I'm not using her supps because they have all the extra stuff in it. I'm just using the three above mentioned supps one at a time. Have you tried to support your gut with the shmt support (the three I mentioned)? They are what Yasko recommends.

 

[PeterPositive]

I will keep you posted @PeterPositive but I'm not using her supps because they have all the extra stuff in it. I'm just using the three above mentioned supps one at a time. Have you tried to support your gut with the shmt support (the three I mentioned)? They are what Yasko recommends.

No, I haven't. I was found with bad methylation issues, ultra high homocysteine and worked on that first. Then I followed a couple of G.I. protocols with mixed results. I'd be curious to know if those supplements help. I am already taking a ton of capsules, tablets etc... don't know if I can handle any more

 

[Soccermanjb]

No, I haven't. I was found with bad methylation issues, ultra high homocysteine and worked on that first. Then I followed a couple of G.I. protocols with mixed results. I'd be curious to know if those supplements help. I am already taking a ton of capsules, tablets etc... don't know if I can handle any more

I understand the feeling completely of not wanting to add anymore pills etc... I tried to correct my methylation with absolutely no success... My doc knows of methylation and tried but he was doing things out of order and docs are really busy and don't have time to research and study every little thing to help just me...

So I've done a lot of research and reading and from what I've learned it makes perfect sense why it never worked... Because I'm shmt +/+ it has to do with cell regeneration, inflammation in gut, which leads to leaky gut which is tied to immune issues... I was skipping steps and trying fix things in wrong order.

Also Yasko believes that if shmt isn't functioning properly it turns methylation away from long and short routes which is the path that freddd, rich van k, and Yasko use to correct the methyl cycle.

So all the logic and science point to treating shmt first and I'm praying that this begins my path of healing.

 

[2manyhobbies]

Soccermanjb
I am not qualified to give you advice regarding which order to start nutrients-the advice I gave is what worked for me.

I know of Amy Yasko's work and she is brilliant, but as I said everyone is different. Never give up looking and trying, I was very sick and with years of perseverance finally am pretty well--it's never too late to heal anything until they put you in the ground.

There is always hope , you will get well. I think a healthy gut is paramount--at least it was for me. About 50% of your immune system resides in your gut according to my studies.

Humaworm is relatively mild as is Now brand Black Walnut/Wormwood tincture, I have used both with success. You might check out Curezone for specifics on worming.

Another good product is Tylers Paraguard, it is really effective and has a broad range of antiparasitic and anti microbials.