Metaphysics - NDE, etc Its GROUNDHOG DAY all over again

[klutzo]

Time slips

Fred,
Not sure if we are connecting semantically. I also thought it was 11 dimensions, not 10,at least in the things I've read.

Anyway I just had what I call a time slip. I don't know what you'd call it from a quantum physics or string theory viewpoint.

I KNOW I had an MRCP of my pancreas at the end of 2007. My doctor's office called today to set up one, saying my recent test results warrant it. I told them I'd already had it done and that he had ordered it. A search of their records, the hospital's records and Medicare's records failed to produce any evidence that it had ever been ordered, only a mention of ordering it if things continued to go downhill. Yet, I KNOW I had it done. I remember every detail, since I'd never had an MRI before. That is what I mean by a time slip. You may call it something else.

I don't know what everyone here has against Mr. Strieber, who has often said that his experiences could have been with other dimensions, not beings from other planets. He also says his implant was done by human beings, not aliens, probably our own govt. Maybe people should not condemn what they have not read. This thread is starting to feel like a one-upmanship contest as to who is more metaphysically advanced, or maybe I am just in an awful mood after spending a half an hour on hold with Medicare, only to be told their computer was down. That would make anybody cross.

My friend who sees and talks to dead people says the Osokin book is the way it really is, based on her experiences with the dead.



klutzo

 

[Freddd]

My whole life has become wrapped up with recurrance and reincarnation as I have some limited memories of other lives, other bodies as well as so many versions of this life I can't keep them straight.

I would like to say something about my deja vu and precognitive experiences in general. They do not normally fit clairvoyance definitions. They are ALWAYS things I see with my own eyes, whether it is reading the newspaper or watching the news on TV or seeing a rock on a dirt road. So, when I was watching the Challenger explode, it was very familiar. I remembered it exactly the way I had seen it many times. About 15 months before 9/11 I told friends and family that there was some sort of terrorist attack coming in some big city (I didn't recognize it) around labor day, maybe a small nuke or something as all I saw was this huge cloud of smoke and dust. I saw it clear as day but it wasn't labeled as to time or cause and later I saw that exact image on TV in an image from a helicopter.

When Jimmy the Greek put his foot in his mouth and chewed thoroughly I turned to my wife and said "Why are they showing this now? It's old news. He was fired last year for it". Then it turned out that it was happening live as we watched it. I have seen more new movies by people who's obituary I had read than I care to think about.

I have seen my own death coming, as have my children, over and over. The big one everybody warned me about was from congestive heart failure in 2003 or 2004. I had multiple recurrances from that one in which I remembered exactly what the deal was and that I had to solve the problem or die. When I went to buy the mb12 the first time (probably more like the hundreth time) I almost bought the wrong brand but that little voice told me it was wrong and to put it back and get the other brand. It's like Phil the weatherman said in Groundhog Day, when you have been through it over and over you just know all these things.

I started skiing at 16. In 8 weeks I was skiing better than many people skiing their whole lives. At 18 I started instructing. At 21 I was on the professional ski patrol at a major mountain and a full blown high expert skier. I was a professional wedding photographer at 19 as a summer job and ski instructing as a winter job while going to school. I just learned everything very rapidly.

In college as a freshman I was in the glee club as a first tenor. B12 deficiency later made my voice very rough and raspy, from which it has mostly recovered, but then I was a very smooth tenor.

It was an all male school, Worcester Polytechnic Institute. We joined up with various women's schools for performances. We did Poulenc's Gloria with two different girls schools as well as Handel's Messiah with one of the same ones. One Saturday we pulled into the parking lot of the girls school for the very first joint rehersal. There were 53 of us on the bus and a good 200-300 young ladies there to greet the bus. There had been a lot of speculation by everybody on the bus about what the odds were of meeting up with a nice girl and promises extracted of "if she has a friend" etc. I am scanning the faces before the bus even stopped and suddenly one caught my eye and she flashed a smile back that just totally floored me. We were in trance together faster than I had imagined possible. It was still very new to me. I got off the bus and walked over to her and she took me by the hand and we walked off for the half hour tour before rehearsal started. I was speechless. Later the guys said "Say, I thought you said you didn't know anybody there." And I would answer "I didn't know that I did". The flow of energy between us, the joyous feel of her energy, her being, was just overwhelming. It was my first experience of finding an "old friend". Later we started talking about alchemy right off the bat, like we were picking up something we had put down temporarily in the past. Each time we got together it was an ecstatic communion. It ended as quickly as it started when she got mono and went home from school and I got mono a week later. We went out to dinner for my birthday and that was the last time I saw her.

I have never had a "normal" relationship with a woman, whatever that means. Every one, long or short, started in that or one other way. There were those that started like this one, an old friend practicing alchemy, and there were those who were brought to me or came to me for deep spiritual healing, often very injured in certain ways. The only things they all had in common were all that it was always a deep experience, they always opened their souls with me and it was always their choice. That's the only way it can be for somebody in my situation.

 

[klutzo]

Heavens and Hells of the Mind

Marylib,
I was the one who mentioned Whitley Strieber, and I looked at your recommended book and find it very interesting. I am a member of Unity, so from what I read, this book looks like it is in agreement with my basic outlook. I will check and see if our library has it. Thank you for mentioning it.

klutzo

 

[Freddd]

Fred,

Not sure if we are connecting semantically. I also thought it was 11 dimensions, not 10,at least in the things I've read.

Anyway I just had what I call a time slip. I don't know what you'd call it from a quantum physics or string theory viewpoint.

I KNOW I had an MRCP of my pancreas at the end of 2007. My doctor's office called today to set up one, saying my recent test results warrant it. I told them I'd already had it done and that he had ordered it. A search of their records, the hospital's records and Medicare's records failed to produce any evidence that it had ever been ordered, only a mention of ordering it if things continued to go downhill. Yet, I KNOW I had it done. I remember every detail, since I'd never had an MRI before. That is what I mean by a time slip. You may call it something else.

I don't know what everyone here has against Mr. Strieber, who has often said that his experiences could have been with other dimensions, not beings from other planets. He also says his implant was done by human beings, not aliens, probably our own govt. Maybe people should not condemn what they have not read. This thread is starting to feel like a one-upmanship contest as to who is more metaphysically advanced, or maybe I am just in an awful mood after spending a half an hour on hold with Medicare, only to be told their computer was down. That would make anybody cross.

My friend who sees and talks to dead people says the Osokin book is the way it really is, based on her experiences with the dead.



klutzo

Hi Klutzo,

Not sure if we are connecting semantically. I also thought it was 11 dimensions, not 10,at least in the things I've read.

It could be. I've seen even higher numbers based on some versions, up to 17 or 21 or something like that. I definitely think that it is more than 10 or 11.

My friend who sees and talks to dead people says the Osokin book is the way it really is, based on her experiences with the dead.

Osokin seems to me to be as accurate a representation of the experience that I have seen.

I don't know what everyone here has against Mr. Strieber, who has often said that his experiences could have been with other dimensions, not beings from other planets. He also says his implant was done by human beings, not aliens, probably our own govt. Maybe people should not condemn what they have not read.

I have nothing against Mr. Strieber, and in looking him up and seeing the books I have read about half of them, mostly during the period of severely impaired memory. I just didn't connect the name with the books. I'm not good with names, especially from 1987-2004. Transdimensional is a whole different thing in my opinion.

My comments were about all the total nonsense about greys based on bad reproductions of photographs of Linda's sculpture at the display. If you read the story of her sculpture in the links you will see what I mean.

This thread is starting to feel like a one-upmanship contest as to who is more metaphysically advanced, or maybe I am just in an awful mood after spending a half an hour on hold with Medicare, only to be told their computer was down. That would make anybody cross.

I know how you feel. I spent 2 decades programing such systems. They are much more exact than anything of the mystical/spiritual nature can possibly be. Nobody can speak TRUTH. At best they can give a faint interpretation of it that can''t possibly convey the actuallity. So learning in all this isn't about learning what somebody said, but rather how to get our own fears out of the way in order to perceive. There is an old saying "Every monk his/her own doctrine".

I describe experiences at best. What they mean is a whole other story, How they fit into a larger system is something else again. Describe it to 5 people and each will have a different hypothesis of how it fits together even if they have all read the same works.

This thread is starting to feel like a one-upmanship contest as to who is more metaphysically advanced

The waundering monks game might look this way to an observer but it isn't. it's more of a negotiation of meaning to see where intersections of understanding might or might not be

Anyway I just had what I call a time slip. I don't know what you'd call it from a quantum physics or string theory viewpoint.

KNOW I had an MRCP of my pancreas at the end of 2007

A search of their records, the hospital's records and Medicare's records failed to produce any evidence that it had ever been ordered, only a mention of ordering it if things continued to go downhill. Yet, I KNOW I had it done

A time slip is what you wear under your time dress or pull up your time boat on to get it out of the time stream? Seriously though please don't take offense at my attempts at humor. I get the context though I hadn't heard the term before.

Interesting. I bet you could find a whole lot more of them if you compared lots of things.

Try to have fun. Don't take any of it to seriously. Be in LOVE.

 

[Marylib]

For Klutzo

Hi.

Hmmm, I don't know if you will find the "Heavens and Hells of the Mind" in libraries yet (recently published) but you can read exerpts and listen to talks online for free at that website I mentioned

www.soundinglight.com

The book is pretty pricey, as it is 4 volumes. But I think you can buy one volume at at time.

Best to you
Marylib

 

[Freddd]

Hi all,

Well, you never know where you will end up on these forums...I kinda think this thread needs to be moved off on its own?? What do you think?

Anyway, I am happy to read all you folks have shared of your experiences and thoughts. I have been a not-so-secret "mystic" most of my life ( I am 53). Lived as a monastic nun in the Self Realization Fellowship ashram in LA for 8 years (a story in itself, believe me.) Have read about just everything there is to read, have been meditating for years and all that...

Of course there is lots to talk about and we all have our individual experiences. For my part, I can suggest a book that I feel is hands down the most remarkable teaching I have ever encountered. The book explores Tantra, Kaballah, Christianity, Sufiism, Zen, you name it. On the level of simple historical education about various spiritual paths, it is fabulous. But is also offers a teaching and practices.

It is called "Heavens and Hells of the Mind," by Imre Vallyon. (A Hungarian name, in case you are wondering.) If you go to the website called: www.soundinglight.com, you can read excerpts and listen to talks. You just go to the "library" section.

I don't think the Whitley Streiber folks will be into it, but you never know.

Anyway, the talks and book exerpts are free at this website. Enjoy.


Marylib

Hi Marylib,

Welcome aboard.

Well, you never know where you will end up on these forums...I kinda think this thread needs to be moved off on its own?? What do you think?

Where? I thought that's what we did in starting this thread.

Anyway, I am happy to read all you folks have shared of your experiences and thoughts. I have been a not-so-secret "mystic" most of my life ( I am 53). Lived as a monastic nun in the Self Realization Fellowship ashram in LA for 8 years (a story in itself, believe me.)

Yes, Yogananda, the other major force for the reestablishment of nonduelism. I would love to hear some of that story.

I had a friend who was a Yogi monk in LA with the Ramakrishna order. He sent me a short poem about "IT" which disappeared into cyberspace some years back. Perhaps you are aquainted with it? I've been trying to locate the poem since then. I had seen it before but I don 't know where.

It is called "Heavens and Hells of the Mind," by Imre Vallyon. (A Hungarian name, in case you are wondering.) If you go to the website called: www.soundinglight.com, you can read excerpts and listen to talks. You just go to the "library" section.


I'll have to check it out.

 

[klutzo]

Sculpture

Fred,
I did look at that sculpture story, so I get what you mean. I was shocked by some of the behavior from men I'd thought had integrity. Why is there always a hidden agenda? I am becoming a misanthrope, despite my best efforts. I could easily become one of those crazy cat ladies, except that we only have one cat left.

My husband says with all the medical procedures I've had done he is amazed I remember even half of them correctly. He is trying to make me feel better about my huge memory lapse, but I used to have a mind like a steel trap, and now it is more like a sieve.

I guess you would understand the memory lapses, if you had a whole period where your memory is faulty. I am glad you have recovered.

Intellectually, I get the whole "don't take yourself too seriously and just love" thing. Emotionally putting it into play on a constant basis is a whole other deal. Sadly, my IQ is much higher than my EQ, which may be why I am being presented with so many emotional challenges, or rather am presenting myself with them.

klutzo

 

[klutzo]

For Marylib

Marylib,
Thanks for the info. I will check out the online excerpts then. I certainly can't afford it right now. I will check with the library too.....you never know. Even if they haven't ordered it, they can get books from any other library in the state.

klutzo

 

[jenbooks]

I like this thread. I don't feel like contributing tonight but enjoying it all so far.

 

[Marylib]

Hi all. Realized I did not read the previous threads before I replied to bits I did read...Sorry, like many of us, my brain cells are off gathering wool somewhere...hope they find their way home someday.
I have nothing against Whitley Streiber. Just thinking that the book I recommended was focused in a bit of a different direction perhaps.
About my days as a monastic, gee, it is long story. Probably easier for me to respond to specific questions...again, my trains of thought are not as long as they used to be!
Marylib

 

[Freddd]

Hi all. Realized I did not read the previous threads before I replied to bits I did read...Sorry, like many of us, my brain cells are off gathering wool somewhere...hope they find their way home someday.
I have nothing against Whitley Streiber. Just thinking that the book I recommended was focused in a bit of a different direction perhaps.
About my days as a monastic, gee, it is long story. Probably easier for me to respond to specific questions...again, my trains of thought are not as long as they used to be!
Marylib

Hi Marylib,

So the caboose follows the engine. Mine got so short for a while I had trouble finding it. I'll ask you the same question I asked my friend who did the same, what attracted you to that path as a monastic. I notice that you are way round on the other side in NZ, was that where you were from prior to SRF?

 

[Freddd]

Hi Jenbooks,

Now I'll get to the one you asked about. Sometime in the year before I had my gall bladder out I had some kind of terrible attack. It wasn't an ordinary gall stone incident though the doc thougt it might invlove the liver and GB in some way. I had black stools but also was taking pepto which colors things. Also brown urine. I had a pizza at Uno's in Cleveland for dinner and got horribly sick 5-6 hours later. I had chills and just felt awful. I was staying at my inlaws. The consultants I worked with lived in Cleveland and we had been in Chicago for a group health conference. I was there for the post show part of things. We filled 3 roles at these conferences usually; participants, exhibitors and presenters and it was always a really rough schedule. I usually rested in Cleveland for 3 days before the long flight back to SLC.

At some point I became aware of lying in bed. I frequently have had episodes of sleep paralysis and know how to exit them if I care to, usually I just go back to sleep. This time was different. I felt acutely ill yet was totally paralyzed and unable to exit via my usual methods when in sleep paralysis. Everything got very loud and I became aware of light streaming towards me. I recognized this as I had it happen before. Shortly I found myself in the ususal sort of examination/enlightenment situation and was told that I had work to do and need to go back and finish my life.

http://www.soundinglight.com/?q=node/22

Here is a post from the site suggested by Marylib. It describes the experience of death well, better than I do here. There is no need for a break in consciousness at death. Consciousness can have continuity.

As I said, the usual and probably pretty classic NDE type experience. Usually after I have returned from such I feel a lot better and am past the acute stage of whatever is going on. This time I didn't. Not like usual I found myself back in the same situation again. Again I was returned. And again I was still feeling acutely ill and ended up back in the same situation. This time I was asked why I was back so quickly having done no additional work at all and told I really shouldn't be there. This repeated 3 or 4 more times with the appearance of greater adamance each time that I should go back and not return so quickly and I explained that I couldn't help it, that it was just happening. Finally about 6 in the morning the acuteness went away after my last round and the paralysis lifted. I had never had an occurance like that before or since.

 

[Marylib]

Answer to Fredd,

Well, I entered the monastic community as a result of an insistent, persistent inner calling. Tried to ignore it, but couldn't eventually. I lived in CA at the time. I am in NZ now because this is my husband's homeland.

Fred mentioned a book excerpt about the death process on www. soundinglight.com. What he read is a description of a talk that is also available on the site. You will probably find the talk to be even more interesting.

http://www.soundinglight.com/index.php?q=audio

Scroll down the page until you get to an audio entitled "Where Will You Go When You Die" At least I think that is the name. Again, my short term memory is shockingly bad.

 

[Freddd]

This must have occurred about 9 years ago or so. My wife and I were camping at a small resort in the foothills of the Rockies. There was ample wild night life of the natural variety at the resort, We were warned of a local fox that would take one of a pair of boots or shoes if left outside the tent. In the bocci court we could often find the tracks of some mountain lions. One night there were at least 3, 2 large and one small, from the tracks, sharpening their claws on the tree next to our tent. There were bears in the area and food had to be kept only in the kitchen building or locked in cars because of the danger from the bears.

I was a cool and clear evening. In the hills away from the city, the stars were thick and bright in the sky. Having a quiet evening we decided to entertain ourselves in the tent. We were about 45 minutes into an ecstatic state following entry into erotic trance. Suddenly there was crashing and banging as a bear started trying to break down the door into the kitchen, about 100 feet away from our tent. We maintained focus and attention and ignored the bear. Suddenly it was as if the campground was flooded with intense white light and I was looking down on the campground from about 100 feet above. A voice "behind" me (my point of view above the campground) said "As long as you stay in this state he won't bother you. Just keep doing what you are doing. Don't get distracted". I was aware of my body engaged with my wife down in the tent and at the same time I turned part of my attention to the voice. There were two men, 20s or 30s, one younger than the other, dressed as one might expect a Yogi in India to be dressed. They looked familiar but I couldn't place them. The intense energy from them was completely familiar, what I had always associated with certain experiences such as I was having at that moment. The bear in the mean time was circulating around the edge of the camping area staying about 50-100 feet away from the tent the whole time.

They proceeded to tell me that a Yogi of their order was going to contact me. They said he was going to die unexpectedly, sooner than he thought and needed to be prepared for that. They then said that this was my chance to renew my connection (or something of the sort, the word used wasn't familiar and didn't stick) with them and this Yogi and that I should come with them now, which I did. My next memory of being aware of my body or wife was several hours later. The bear was gone and all was quiet and the white light was fading.

The Yogi, who was posting on a forum similar to this on a different subject contacted me a couple of weeks later when I returned home. He suggested I read some books on Yoga by Vivekananda. The books were totally familiar to me. And that was when I saw pictures of Vivekananda and Ramakrishna and recognized them immediately. He died about 2 years after that, after we had had many discussions. And his death was completely unexpected, having just gotten a clean bill of health after his cancer treatment checkup. He died from complications of anesthesia during reconstructive surgery.

 

[jenbooks]

Hmmm Freddd. These stories require a re-read from me and more thoughtful replies. Just wanted to say I'm enjoying them.

 

[liverock]

I have heard a lot of NDE's where people approached "The Being of Light", but this is the only story I know of where the person entered into that light, actually met the being face to face and glimpsed into heaven itself.

Ian McCormack was stung by deadly box jellyfish whilst diving in Mauritus, he eventually made it to hospital and died for 15 minutes. He recounts first visiting hell before he was rescued and met the "Being of Light" which changed his life forever.

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-2433471460463354645&hl=en#

 

[Freddd]

I have heard a lot of NDE's where people approached "The Being of Light", but this is the only story I know of where the person entered into that light, actually met the being face to face and glimpsed into heaven itself.

Ian McCormack was stung by deadly box jellyfish whilst diving in Mauritus, he eventually made it to hospital and died for 15 minutes. He recounts first visiting hell before he was rescued and met the "Being of Light" which changed his life forever.

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-2433471460463354645&hl=en#

Hi Liverock,

Interesting video. I've sent it on to others also interested in such things. The only real difference in my experiences is that mine have have been somewhat more abstract, less personified, and not of a Christian characteristic or interpretation. A person perceives the experience in archetypes familiar to them.

The death, examining ones life and flaws, forgiving, changing one's self and being reborn in LOVE and LIGHT is all part of the purification cycle one can do over and over, choosing to be reborn at increasingly higher levels in that living LIGHT and LOVE. The living LIGHT and LOVE exposes all that we are, nothing can be hidden. Rejecting that exposure, that reaction to duck and run carries a person into darkness. A person doesn't have to be at the point of physical death to have those experiences.

 

[Freddd]

Fred,
I did look at that sculpture story, so I get what you mean. I was shocked by some of the behavior from men I'd thought had integrity. Why is there always a hidden agenda? I am becoming a misanthrope, despite my best efforts. I could easily become one of those crazy cat ladies, except that we only have one cat left.

My husband says with all the medical procedures I've had done he is amazed I remember even half of them correctly. He is trying to make me feel better about my huge memory lapse, but I used to have a mind like a steel trap, and now it is more like a sieve.

I guess you would understand the memory lapses, if you had a whole period where your memory is faulty. I am glad you have recovered.

Intellectually, I get the whole "don't take yourself too seriously and just love" thing. Emotionally putting it into play on a constant basis is a whole other deal. Sadly, my IQ is much higher than my EQ, which may be why I am being presented with so many emotional challenges, or rather am presenting myself with them.

klutzo

Hi Klutzo,

Why is there always a hidden agenda?

Good question. In a way I suppose that has as many answers as there are people. Watch that link that Liverock posted. The answer is in there. In the part where he is describing the feeling of the LIGHT exposing everything in him. It brings everything to consciousness. People have so much hidden, so many fears of seeing their characteristics, that they can't even look at or acknowledge that they are there and so everything stemming from them is hidden. Generally folks live their lives to keep those hidden from everybody including themselves. They do things to protect the secrets with layer upon layer of misdirecting behavior. We have all done things, thought things whatever, of which we are not proud, of which we dread so much that we have trouble seeing them and releasing them, forgiving ourselves and others. This is just an approximation, an opinion, an explanation fitting my archetypes. The only earthly experience I know of that approximates it even a little for many, of that feeling of exposure in the LIGHT is walking out the very first time at the pool on a sunny summer Saturday at a nudist club with hundreds present. And that is miniscule compared to the reality.

It's not often that we get to see the roots exposed, as in the sculpture story, of so much BS. I know of only one other such instance. I have a collection of old science fiction magazines and have read them. In the early 50s there was a series of stories about Nazi flying saucers and a base on the moon and alien technology. It was quite a surprise decades after it was published, when I actully read the SF magazines containing it, that there were people reporting multiple details of the stories verbatim as absolute fact with quite an elaborate fantasy built around it in articles and books. Yes, they did build or design a jet powered prototype vehicle, but it had no alien technology or gravity drive and there was no secret moon base.

Did these people forget the sources that they stole from or did they do it consciously? Why do they do such? That people are so willing to believe such things of 100% pure unadultrated BS can be frightening.

Then when you get to tantric alchemy there are all sorts of folks who, one might say, choose to misinterpret and misunderstand it and use the information exploitively and abusively. In this society everything possibly sexual is twisted and abused. It seems to be getting worse. Maybe the day will come again where it is right and proper to burn people at the stake or maybe just lock them away for the rest of their lives for advocating ecstatic methods or even real sex education. Ignorance is not bliss.

I am becoming a misanthrope, despite my best efforts. I could easily become one of those crazy cat ladies, except that we only have one cat left.

"Any man who hates little children and dogs can't be all bad". W.C. Fields.

As more and more information flows into the world and people have more and more chances to see themselves, most tend to react more and more strongly against that. Each unconscious reaction becomes an opportunity to see ones self if one can wake up in that moment. As more people are reborn in the LIGHT bringing it back into this world, there is more reaction against it.

Intellectually, I get the whole "don't take yourself too seriously and just love" thing. Emotionally putting it into play on a constant basis is a whole other deal


Opening your heart to LOVE is easier said than done. Each justification of not doing so, like with the "taxi driver" in the video clip, builds up the wall. It's taken down the same way, seeing each reaction and justification and not accepting them. That is the study and practice of alchemy.

Since it is GROUNDHOG DAY all over again, we get chance after chance to see ourselves. Anything we can't look at and accept and forgive can cause an involuntary rebirth. After we can accept seeing ourselves it becomes voluntary.

Interestingly, on some websites, mb12 is called "the connection vitamin". If one examines one form of the Tantric meal common in vegetarian societies it breaks taboos by including beef and fish, supplying mb12, adb12 l-carnitine and omega3 oils in sufficient quantity as to cause a noticable reaction and change in consciousness in several hours time.

 

[Freddd]

Tantric practice of ecstasy and pain relief

Having engaged in tantric ecstatic practice for years, I would like to comment that it certainly does appear to relieve pain considerably. Now that may be because of endorphine release or other reasons. A four hours session of trance and ecstasy substantially reduces my pain for 2-3 days following. It was quite repeatable and predictable. I've never been successful of having placebo effect of any kind of which I am aware so it probably isn't that. I didn't expect any pain relief from it. It just happened. It was a very pleasant additional surprise to have so much pain relief for nearly 3 days time after time. It didn't hurt that I also received massage during such on occasions but the pain relief wasn't dependent upon receiving the massage. I also had major trauma releases at times but again, the pain relief wasn't dependent upon having such a release.

 

[brenda]

Fredd

Can I just ask a question please? Are you saying that some vulnerable women came to you for help and you gave them sexual healing? Is that what it is called? Thanks.

Brenda