MeSci
ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6?
- Messages
- 8,232
- Location
- Cornwall, UK
Oooooh.
Also, a musical about science would be AWESOME. <3
-J
Shame Tom Lehrer is no longer with us - he did a great job of singing about the elements.
Welcome to Phoenix Rising!
Created in 2008, Phoenix Rising is the largest and oldest forum dedicated to furthering the understanding of, and finding treatments for, complex chronic illnesses such as chronic fatigue syndrome (ME/CFS), fibromyalgia, long COVID, postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome (POTS), mast cell activation syndrome (MCAS), and allied diseases.
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Oooooh.
Also, a musical about science would be AWESOME. <3
-J
Which data are you talking about specifically, can you link me?
There is no mention to raw data in the paper, and no supplemental material available for download at the journal's site.There should have been the raw data attached to the article so that others can view it. Did you see it?
It should be at the bottom on the metabolomics journal. Link is for metabolights and a data accession number.There is no mention to raw data in the paper, and no supplemental material available for download at the journal's site.
Data Deposition The data for this study has been deposited at MetaboLights (http://www.ebi.ac.uk/metabolights) with accession number MTBLS161.
Jaime, my son and I have consistently high anion gaps. (n=3 with self selection ) In my case, this is despite having consistently low albumin levels (kidneys fine, no diabetes).In exercise tests, our blood lactate tends to be high. My arterial lactate was something like 3x the highest normal value. Whether that's the case at rest remains to be seen; but at rest, my anion gap is high. n=1, but still.
Jaime, my son and I have consistently high anion gaps. (n=3 with self selection ) In my case, this is despite having consistently low albumin levels (kidneys fine, no diabetes).
Chris Armstrong and the Metabolights? (I'm picturing a brass section and some buxom ladies singing doowops with synchronised finger clicking)
Yeah, it seems it's in a form to be used by metabolomics software packages. Not the most convenient if you aren't familiar with the data format.That is... really squished together, full of quotation marks...
I'd blame brain-fog, but I'm not sure that this data is user-friendly to anyone.
-J
@ChrisArmstrong
So good that you are making yourself available to us here. All power to you.
To be included in any future studies you do, will it be necessary to be a patient of the Discovery Clinic? My son and I are in Melbourne and both with ME.
Yes, tracking variation in metabolites over rest, activity and PEM will be very interesting. The other thing that it is probably worth controlling for is the time since illness onset, given the major changes in cytokine levels found after perhaps three years of illness.
Jaime, my son and I have consistently high anion gaps. (n=3 with self selection ) In my case, this is despite having consistently low albumin levels (kidneys fine, no diabetes).
Chris Armstrong and the Metabolights? (I'm picturing a brass section and some buxom ladies singing doowops with synchronised finger clicking)
First of all:
Second of all, I do wonder about this. Like, I really want to be that researcher that gathers up EVERYONE'S LAB DATA OF EVER and analyzes it.
But I can't use stepwise regression to link this stuff, apparently. I was doing research for a paper I'm reviewing and apparently it's Of The Devil. This makes me worry, because I can't imagine how many social science papers are floating around out there, thinking that they prove something. I mean, how do those papers even sleep at night?
-J
Low albumin fits with this paper and many others that suggest a reduced level of amino acids in the blood.
and yet again my own results don't fit - I have had high-normal to high albumin for many years.
Would albumin be affected by exertion? We are talking about serum, not urine?
and yet again my own results don't fit
Individual results will always vary
View attachment 11355
Just the abstract but I hope to be able to use research gate to access the rest...
-J
http://www.meaction.net/2016/06/04/ron-davis-errors-metabolism/
Here is a link to an article about Ron Davis's labs preliminary work. It is very exciting to us because at this point it looks like their work is replicating the results we found with the metabolites. Once they go through the genetic component they will surely be able to bring to light more information on what is happening here. Only thing to note is their sample size is much smaller than ours at this point (but it will get bigger) and their patients are far more ill than ours.
Thought you might be interested in this.
http://www.meaction.net/2016/06/04/ron-davis-errors-metabolism/
It is a link to an article about Ron Davis's labs preliminary work. It is very exciting to us because at this point it looks like their work is replicating the results we found with the metabolites. Once they go through the genetic component they will surely be able to bring to light more information on what is happening here.
Like, I really want to be that researcher that gathers up EVERYONE'S LAB DATA OF EVER and analyzes it.
Oh haha thank you very much! You agreed with this work from the very beginning as well. Yeah I had to alert a few people at the conference actually. I guess it's easy to do considering we haven't really mixed with those involved in ME/CFS research much and it can be difficult to find papers sometimes. Beyond ours though there are a few previous studies that have seen these anomalies in separation. Our paper was the first to see the amino acid catabolism as a source of ATP production in place of glycolysis as far as I'm aware though. The combination of inhibited glycolysis and amino acid catabolism may be something unique to the muscle fatigue experienced and sometimes symptom of increased joint flexibility. Guessing that will be the next thing to come out. We're about to release some information on the microbes and fecal metabolites from these patients as well, will let you know when it's available. Thanks again!I'm laughing a wee bit, @ChrisArmstrong ... I'm the editor at #MEAction, and Alex and myself made contributions to the article you linked! I was the one who inserted your study; before that, it said 'there have been no studies that demonstrate errors in glycolysis up to this point...'
-J