Metabolic adaptation and fragility in healthy 3D in vitro skeletal muscle tissues exposed to chronic fatigue syndrome and Long COVID-19 sera

[SpinachHands]

Hadn't seen any posts about this study yet so thought I'd put it here myself:

https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1758-5090/adf66c

Would love to hear opinions on this as, even though a very small study, it seems really significant in its findings. The TLDR from what I can tell is they had lab-grown muscle tissue, ran it through with the blood of people with ME/LC, and found the muscle began hypermetabolising, leading to muscular and mitochondrial deterioration. This may suggest there really is "something in the blood"! (Also another reason why ME is NOT deconditioning.)

 

[Treeman]

So, could this mean the fight or flight response gets switched on and stays on leading to chronic fatigue as it’s unsustainable?

The mitochondria fragmentation was also filmed by Prusty.

 

[SpinachHands]

So, could this mean the fight or flight response gets switched on and stays on leading to chronic fatigue as it’s unsustainable?

The mitochondria fragmentation was also filmed by Prusty.

I'm not sure that this study specifically looks at sympathetic nervous system activity. Although in the body as a whole the fight or flight response is certainly involved, this study only looked at muscle tissue and blood.



"Short exposures (48 H) to patient sera led to a significant reduction in muscle contractile strength."



"Prolonged exposure (96–144 H) caused muscle fragility and weakness, with mitochondria fragmenting into a toroidal conformation."



"We propose that skeletal muscle tissue in ME/CFS and LC-19 progresses through a hypermetabolic state, leading to severe muscular and mitochondrial deterioration."

 

[Treeman]

I'm not sure that this study specifically looks at sympathetic nervous system activity. Although in the body as a whole the fight or flight response is certainly involved, this study only looked at muscle tissue and blood.

Yeah, I understand that.

There have been a few saying it’s something in the blood. So how about a theory that it’s electrical signals from the nervous system and not a cytokines etc.?

Wasn’t the nano neddle Ron Davis and Open Meducine Foundation measuring this?

 

[SpinachHands]

Yeah, I understand that.

There have been a few saying it’s something in the blood. So how about a theory that it’s electrical signals from the nervous system and not a cytokines etc.?

Wasn’t the nano neddle Ron Davis and Open Meducine Foundation measuring this?

I see, yeah it is interesting that this kind of reaction can happen in the muscle without any nervous system involvement. I wouldn't say it throws out the theory that overactive nervous system activity causes damage, but does have some possible implications of the causal order of things.
There are some interesting discussions on the S4ME forum that probably understand it better than I do:
https://www.s4me.info/threads/metab...cfs-and-long-covid-19-sera-2025-mughal.45410/

 

[Oliver3]

Yeah, I understand that.

There have been a few saying it’s something in the blood. So how about a theory that it’s electrical signals from the nervous system and not a cytokines etc.?

Wasn’t the nano neddle Ron Davis and Open Meducine Foundation measuring this?

I've often thought we should be prescribed strong sedatives in monthly pulses to try and break the hypernetabolic chain.
If nothing else happens, it'd give us a month out of hell
I don't mean anesthesia, just heavy dose narcotics or sntjg than can really stop the hyperactivity, perhaps used in tandem with strong antioxidants and vitamins.
Just zmsome kind if hard reset or help for the body to lessen the negative effects on ghe body.

I say this, as in younger days, when I could still drink, i stayed at a girlfriends house. Had a terrible hangover but needed to drive to London.
She gave me what I thought was paracetamol.
In half an hour, I felt great! I went through the whole busy day with no sympathetic activation, no fatigue , mo symptoms ( even then I was having to rest).
When I got back k I asked her what she gave me.
It was some kind of hospital strength painkiller given from an operation on her ear the year before.
I just remember being in a protected but very coherent state. Felt like thrre was a nice barrier between me and stimuli from the outside world.
I know we can't be given smthg likethat for long term use but how about short pulse burst thsf are tapered over a month. At least as a medicine to rest our muscles and mitos?
Surely there would be a protocol that was safe enough if overseen to not lead us to become dependent?

In addition to that, as a treatment for the induced sarcopenia we've suffered, how about the open medicine foundation contact Liz parish of the firm bioviva.
Take a look at her approach to regenerative medicine . She's literally regrown muscle mass, proven with mri and biomarkers, in herself as proof of concept and now in a growing list of patients.
Her regrowth of muscle brought back down the other generic markers for ageing we see in m.e. such as insulin resistance, fatty liver etc.
I see those as worthwhile practical ways to help ease our pain.
Parish us working on delivery methods that don't cos the earth, like inhalers that deliver her protocol so everyone can access the treatments