ME/CFS Research: Herpes Autoimmune Spectrum Disorder

[xebex]

@Reading_Steiner thank you, yes I didn’t mean to set up a blog just to create. A standard post that you can just keep adding to. Of course no worries if that’s not your thing. I’m sure we’ll find your updates somewhere!

 

[Reading_Steiner]

This stuff builds up in the body and then hits you all of a sudden it seems, I figure its not just because of taking the oat bran, but it might seem that way.

Here is a nice article about what it does https://www.lifeextension.com/magazine/2009/12/the-immune-enhancing-benefits-of-beta-glucans

 

[pamojja]

Basically don’t use the water extract. 1:1 and alcohol extract only.

Concerning the Reishi extract, looking for sources here in the EU, would this product be a viable option: https://www.lifeextensioneurope.com/reishi-extract-mushroom-complex

Reishi mushroom (Ganoderma lucidum) extract (fruit body) [std to 13.5% polysaccharides (132.3 mg) and 6% triterpenes (58.8 mg)]

Or if it wouldn't, wouldn't a 1:1 alcohol extract anywway only contain what it was extracted from? And therefore pure Reishi powder contain just as much?: https://www.sunday.de/reishi-pulver-ganzer-pilz/bio-reishi-pulver-rohkost.html

 

[Reading_Steiner]

Concerning the Reishi extract, looking for sources here in the EU, would this product be a viable option: https://www.lifeextensioneurope.com/reishi-extract-mushroom-complex



Or if it wouldn't, wouldn't a 1:1 alcohol extract anywway only contain what it was extracted from? And therefore pure Reishi powder contain just as much?: https://www.sunday.de/reishi-pulver-ganzer-pilz/bio-reishi-pulver-rohkost.html

I think he means don't use ones that are just only using water extraction process, use the one that includes alcohol, called dual extraction process. I don't know what the ratio means, i'm using the Indigo 3 to 1 as mentioned earlier in the thread.

Life extension seems to be a good brand ( expensive ), I imagine that product would have enough of the correct active ingredient needed ( triterpenes ) but it doesn't even mention alcohol, they could be using a different extraction method than all other companies. Looking at the ingredient numbers it could mean its a 2:1 rated one.

 

[godlovesatrier]

Pukka branded mushroom gold has 3 mushrooms inc reishi. But I can vouch for there very high quality products after years of use. They've got so many amazingly high quality products that I just haven't found elsewhere. Apart from possibly MicroNutri who also do excellent extracts for reishi on its own.

I'll be taking the pukka mushroom gold myself as I know it's decent stuff.

 

[junkcrap50]

@joshualevy What are the first, second, and third papers. Is this the correct order as you described?
1) The involvement of acetate, aspartate, butyrate and enzymatic cofactors in the HASD CFS/ME model
2) The true nature of an autoimmune disease
3) CFS/ME: A New Hope

 

[pamojja]

I don't know what the ratio means,

1:1 means the ratio from which the extract is made. For example 5:1 means 1 part of extract is made from 5 times the plant/fungi material. Thats why I suspect one could use just the plain and much cheaper mushroom powder at equal weight.

 

[joshua.leisk]

@joshualevy What are the first, second, and third papers. Is this the correct order as you described?
1) The involvement of acetate, aspartate, butyrate and enzymatic cofactors in the HASD CFS/ME model
2) The true nature of an autoimmune disease
3) CFS/ME: A New Hope

Almost!

1 - The true nature of an autoimmune disease
2 - The involvement of acetate, aspartate, butyrate and enzymatic cofactors in the HASD CFS/ME model
3 - CFS/ME: A New Hope

 

[joshua.leisk]

View attachment 42794
This stuff builds up in the body and then hits you all of a sudden it seems, I figure its not just because of taking the oat bran, but it might seem that way.

Here is a nice article about what it does https://www.lifeextension.com/magazine/2009/12/the-immune-enhancing-benefits-of-beta-glucans

Btw, I've been meaning to ask:
Your username - is that at all relating to Rudolf Steiner?

 

[joshua.leisk]

Concerning the Reishi extract, looking for sources here in the EU, would this product be a viable option: https://www.lifeextensioneurope.com/reishi-extract-mushroom-complex



Or if it wouldn't, wouldn't a 1:1 alcohol extract anywway only contain what it was extracted from? And therefore pure Reishi powder contain just as much?: https://www.sunday.de/reishi-pulver-ganzer-pilz/bio-reishi-pulver-rohkost.html

This looks great.

It's interesting - there appears to be a huge cost different between reishi here in Australia and EU. eg. I just bought 2 years worth of reishi for AUD$36.

 

[nerd]

Reishi extracts are preferable since pure Reishi powder is associated with toxic side effects. I think the issue is that most Reishi is sourced from China and China generally has poor quality in source material. Usually, this can be circumvented by quality control, but as far as I know, it's still uncertain what the toxic component is. This is why I would prefer extracts. At least, they have smaller risks of contamination.

 

[joshua.leisk]

Reishi extracts are preferable since pure Reishi powder is associated with toxic side effects. I think the issue is that most Reishi is sourced from China and China generally has poor quality in source material. Usually, this can be circumvented by quality control, but as far as I know, it's still uncertain what the toxic component is. This is why I would prefer extracts. At least, they have smaller risks of contamination.

Very good point. I’ve been recommending the local organic versions here, for anyone not using the extracts.

 

[pamojja]

This looks great.

So the more affordable powder would do just as well (The powder I linked to is alledgedly organic grown and lab-tested). Whats your source in Australia? (maybe shipping isn't as much..)

At least, they have smaller risks of contamination.

So actually no difference. Except that the super-expensive LEF extract isn't organic grown.

 

[nerd]

Very good point. I’ve been recommending the local organic versions here, for anyone not using the extracts.

I haven't found one in Germany yet. All I found was a manufacturer (Kurkraft) who "manufactures" the capsules in Germany, but they don't say if they also grow the Reishi themselves. Sunday also sources it from China. If you really get stuff from a verified source in Fujian, this should be fine. Unfortunately, the problem in China is that it's almost cultural to plagiarize/fake/taint goods and sell them outside of China, and they aren't picky when it comes to the source materials they use for this business. So there is only little trust in the supply chain within China. It's best if you know a trusted handler who verifies the source, seals, and sends it personally. And this level of trust will have a price tag attached to it.

Except that the super-expensive LEF extract isn't organic grown.

I think most of it is organically grown, but not all of the organizations that harvest it in the woods have an organic certification.

Is there any manufacturer who also claims that they grow the Reishi and not just manufacture it?

 

[godlovesatrier]

Pukka markup is extreme but I can only go on my andrographis paniculata sourcing knowledge. I tried 5 different types of andrographis and only the pukka one was any good. All the others caused an allergic reaction, which meant none of the theraputic effects of the herb got realised.

I've since found ParActin which contains 50% of the constituent (andrographolide) which is way better than the other varieties.

As for Reishi, here are the links to the ones I mentioned:

https://www.hollandandbarrett.com/shop/product/pukka-mushroom-gold-capsules-60005765
£21 for 60 capsules

https://www.bristolbotanicals.co.uk/pr-7168
£15 for 60 capsules
Combination of concentrated hot water and ethanolic extracts – minimum 30% polysaccharides and 3% triterpenes (ganoderic and lucidenic acids)

 

[pamojja]

https://www.hollandandbarrett.com/shop/product/pukka-mushroom-gold-capsules-60005765
£21 for 60 capsules

Contains only 30% Reishi powder and doesn't declare the amount in a cupsule. So one would have to take 3 times the amount, and than it becomes really expensive (for just powdered mushrooms also available in bulk). Do you know how many milligrams each capsule contain?

https://www.bristolbotanicals.co.uk/pr-7168
£15 for 60 capsules
Combination of concentrated hot water and ethanolic extracts – minimum 30% polysaccharides and 3% triterpenes (ganoderic and lucidenic acids)

At half the triterpenes, this becomes even more expensive than LEF's

 

[pamojja]

c) Lion's Mane / Oat Bran / Wheat Bran / Barley - “Beta-glucans”

Lion’s Mane, oat bran, wheat bran and barley are all good dietary sources for
beta-glucans.

Oat bran contains a very high content of beta-glucans, at approximately 8%, by
weight. Wheat bran is closer to 3%. Barley is around 10%.

Beta-glucans have demonstrated potent immunostimulatory and antineoplastic
effects. These appear to be highly synergistic with the similar effects provided by
triterpenes in Reishi[84][85][86][87][88][89][90][91][92][93][94][95][97][98].

Our early testing has shown that an effective dose of Lion’s Mane appears to be
250-500mg, 3-4x a day. It’s possible that smaller doses are still quite effective.

I take this text from your paper to mean the beta-glucan content of lion's mane isn't known or too variable?

Barley flour seem to have 85% carbs, oat bran 61%. So about the same beta-glucan content per carbs. Would prefer barley though, since its available as traditional food, For example 'Tsampa', as it is used by Tibetans as their stable.

Interestingly, Sunday.de sells only Chaga extract standardized to 20% beta-glucans, all their other many different mushroom extracts including Lion's mane only standardized to 30% polysaccarides: https://www.sunday.de/vitalpilz/

While https://www.dynveo.fr/nos-produits/ sells 4 different mushroom extracts, except lion's mane, all standardized for 20% beta-glucan.

With all 20% for beta-glucan standardized mushroom extracts of chaga, maitake, reishi, shitake - but not lion's mane available on the european market - and plain reishi powder just as effective as its alcohol extracts, the question of course arises: Wouldn't really any of the other mushroom powders lent itself just as well for their natural beta-glucan content? Or right away simply upping the dose of the reishi powder for their additional triterpenes?

Beside all those options, wouldn't a dedicated beta-glucan supplement do just as well? (beside the Reishi) https://www.iherb.com/pr/California...e-Beta-Glucan-250-mg-90-Veggie-Capsules/99736

 

[godlovesatrier]

godlovesatrier said:
https://www.bristolbotanicals.co.uk/pr-7168
£15 for 60 capsules
Combination of concentrated hot water and ethanolic extracts – minimum 30% polysaccharides and 3% triterpenes (ganoderic and lucidenic acids)
At half the triterpenes, this becomes even more expensive than LEF's

It's 700mg per capsule.

 

[pamojja]

All I found was a manufacturer (Kurkraft) who "manufactures" the capsules in Germany, but they don't say if they also grow the Reishi themselves.

https://kurkraft.com/collections/all/products/reishi doesn't contain triterpines and therefore isn't an option.

 

[Reading_Steiner]

Btw, I've been meaning to ask:
Your username - is that at all relating to Rudolf Steiner?

No, philosophy is one of my weakest subjects, mostly through lack of interest / trying.

Its a type of Engrish https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wasei-eigo
There was a guy on here that knew what it meant but I haven't seen him posting lately, I think hes from the UK like I am.
Steins;Gate Opening HD 1080p Creditless

The Reading Steiner is a term referring to Rintaro Okabe's ability to, after switching world lines, retain his memory of events that have occurred (from his point of view) before the switch.
Deja Vu is one of the main factors for Reading Steiner as it was stated in the anime that the Deja Vu and Reading Steiner are highly related.
In popular culture, the Mandela effect is equivalent to Reading Steiner. It refers to memories people have which are apparently false in our universe, but which they believe are correct in some parallel universe, and believers in the Mandela effect typically believe that they were originally in a universe where those memories were correct, but then somehow got transported to our current universe where their memories differ with reality.

I have some other questions about the treatment strategy. 1) did any previous experiment subjects have Multiple Chemical Sensitivity and did it resolve after completing the treatment plan ? 2) how far into the treatment should people attempt to exceed their normal physical capabilities and try to emulate things a healthy person would do ? 3) can we eat penuts and potato crisps occasionally as those are quite convenient form of food ( and I'm getting bored of eating mostly cheese by itself and sometimes fish or kidney beans ).