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ME/CFS is a mystery no more! Under ME/CFS hides Chronic Bacterial Intoxication Syndrome (CBIS) — [This Thread ONLY for Posting Questions to Dr Markov]

Hip

Senior Member
Messages
17,786
Question for Dr Oleg Markov:

Dr Markov, you said in an earlier post that once an infection detected in the kidneys by means of a warm urine bacterial culture, in order to check whether this infection is actually causing nephrodysbacteriosis and CBIS, additional lab tests are performed, including blood toxicology.

This is what you posted earlier:
to be sure that the detected infection also is a cause for Nephrodysbacteriosis© and ME/CFS-CBIS, it’s necessary to provide (may be provided) additional laboratory confirmation (bacteriological & blood for toxicology)


I could you please explain more about these additional lab tests that are used to confirm nephrodysbacteriosis and CBIS? What blood analytes do you test for in the blood, to detect bacterial toxins? Do you test for blood LPS levels?


And when autovaccine treatment is complete (after 6 months to 2-3 years), do you test the blood again for bacterial toxins? And are these toxins no longer present in the blood after autovaccine treatment is complete?

Thanks very much.
 
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Hipsman

Senior Member
Messages
542
Location
Ukraine
@ME/CFS - Mystery No More! Under ME/CFS hides CBIS Did Dr Igor Markov had much success treating: POTS (Postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome), MCAS (Mast cell activation syndrome), EDS (Ehlers-Danlos syndrome), SIBO (Small intestine bacterial overgrowth), CIRS (Chronic inflammatory response syndrome) and Mold toxicity ?

Edit: added CIRS and Mold toxicity.
 
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Marylib

Senior Member
Messages
1,132
Dear ME/CFS-Community,
Thanks a lot for your comments from June 1. Answering your comments:

this is about understanding the true nature/origin ME/CFS and it’s so long-awaited good news for ME/CFS-Community: based on the systematic clinical researches ME/CFS (2009-2021), the true nature of ME/CFS has been discovered & it’s found a diagnostic-therapeutical solution to its problem.

Repeating once more our general findings, ME/CFS is caused by a chronic often asymptomatic hidden latent bacteriologically confirmed bacteria infection in the kidneys (Nephrodysbacteriosis©).

Such infection develops more often after over-use of antibiotics (often - beginning from childhood, especially by repeated and long courses) and may persist in the kidneys for years and decades and releases bacterial endo-&exotoxins into the bloodstream (that confirmed toxicologically), and those toxins cause the development of endotoxicosis and severe general intoxication of the organism with toxic damage to its various organs and systems that leads to the subsequent development of Chronic Bacterial Intoxication Syndrome© (CBIS) with more than 70 clinical symptoms of its manifestation.

Chronic Bacterial Intoxication Syndrome© (CBIS) is a new previously unknown disease/diagnosis that hides under the mask of ME/CFS in more than 95% cases of ME/CFS.

Have you been in touch with Invest in ME Research Charity? The have a thing going with a university studying the gastrointestinal perspective.
 
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Learner1

Senior Member
Messages
6,305
Location
Pacific Northwest
@ME/CFS - Mystery No More! Under ME/CFS hides CBIS

I have some questions.
  1. How does your treatment address oxidative and nitrosative stress, including formation of peroxynitrites, impairment of mito complex I and peroxynitrite damage mito membranes, which are known features of ME/CFS?
  2. How does your program address low in case cell function or low B cells?
  3. How does your program address nutrient deficiencies like B12, vitamin D, minerals like zinc, magnesium, molybdenum or iron, or amino acids?
  4. How does your program address PCR positive EBV, HHV6, and other herpes family viruses, cocksackie viruses, and atypical pneumonias like chlamydia and mycoplasma pneumoniae? Or Lyme disease and co-infections?
  5. How does your program address hormonal imbalances, particularly hypothyroidism, low or high cortisol production, and deficiencies of imbalances of sex hormones?
Thank you very much.
 
To HIP, June 19:
Dr Markov, you said in an earlier post that once an infection detected in the kidneys by means of a warm urine bacterial culture, in order to check whether this infection is actually causing nephrodysbacteriosis and CBIS, additional lab tests are performed, including blood toxicology.

This is what you posted earlier:
ME/CFS - Mystery No More! Under ME/CFS hides CBIS said:
to be sure that the detected infection also is a cause for Nephrodysbacteriosis© and ME/CFS-CBIS, it’s necessary to provide (may be provided) additional laboratory confirmation (bacteriological & blood for toxicology)
I could you please explain more about these additional lab tests that are used to confirm nephrodysbacteriosis and CBIS? What blood analytes do you test for in the blood, to detect bacterial toxins? Do you test for blood LPS levels?
And when autovaccine treatment is complete (after 6 months to 2-3 years), do you test the blood again for bacterial toxins? And are these toxins no longer present in the blood after autovaccine treatment is complete?
Thanks very much.

Dr.-med.Igor Markov answers:
Toxicological tests are quite extensive and are detailed in Report 8 “CBIS. Toxicological diagnosis” of the study “Chronic Bacterial Intoxication Syndrome under the mask of CFS/ME”. In order not to re-tell or simplify this important information, we can send you this Report 8 in its entirety to your personal email address, if you inform us.

The LPS level in the blood was not specifically determined. Various variants of toxic proteomes of bacterial origin were determined. It is with "toxic proteomes" that the terms "endotoxin" or simply "toxin", which are widely used in the medical literature, can be related. As can be seen from Table 5 of Report 8, all tested indicators of the autoimmune activity of toxic proteomes under various variants of clinically dominant toxic effects on organs and systems (n = 779) were significantly higher than normal.

Perhaps this is why many CFS/ME researchers consider this disease to be autoimmune.

Physiological elimination of toxic proteomes in the body of patients, regardless of age, was carried out mainly through the cells of the reticuloendothelial system (RES) - in 614/818 or 75.06% of cases, less often - through the liver (189/818 or 23.11%) and only in some cases (15/818 or 1.83%) - through the kidneys.

Apparently, it is with this in patients with Nephrodysbacteriosis / CBIS that the rapid absorption and subsequent accumulation of bacterial toxins from the kidneys in the bloodstream are associated, which practically do not perform the detoxification function of elimination / excretion in this pathological state.

And then their very slow subsequent excretion in a completely different way through the macrophage system of cells of mesenchymal origin, united by a common functional property - the ability to phagocytosis.

In the vast majority of patients with CBIS (738/818 or 90.22%; in children - 93/96 or 96.88%, in adults - 645/722 or 89.34%, p> 0.05), there was determined the hyperergic type of reactogenicity of the systemic response to toxic proteomes.

The normalization of toxicological blood tests after treatment (at repeated determination), unfortunately, lags behind clinical improvement and recovery. We consider the conducted toxicological studies as preliminary.

A separate group of researchers should continue to study directly bacterial toxins, including LPS, in children and adults, taking into account the existing clinical differences in the course of CBIS in adults and children of different age groups (see Report 6 “CBIS. Clinical diagnosis” of the study “Chronic Bacterial Intoxication Syndrome under the mask of CFS/ME”).

To Cipher, June 20:
Have you performed kidney biopsies to confirm that the infection actually lies in the kidneys and not just in the bladder?

Dr.-med.Igor Markov answers:
We did not and do not plan to do it ourselves or recommend it to other researchers. With regard to our patients and diagnoses of CFS / ME and Nephrodysbacteriosis / CBIS, this is an unnecessary and simply barbaric study. A bladder infection does not cause CBIS: it is simply one of the gateways for an ascending kidney infection.

To Learner1, June 26, at 6:37 AM:
I have some questions.
  1. How does your treatment address oxidative and nitrosative stress, including formation of peroxynitrites, impairment of mito complex I and peroxynitrite damage mito membranes, which are known features of ME/CFS?
  2. How does your program address low in case cell function or low B cells?
  3. How does your program address nutrient deficiencies like B12, vitamin D, minerals like zinc, magnesium, molybdenum or iron, or amino acids?
  4. How does your program address PCR positive EBV, HHV6, and other herpes family viruses, cocksackie viruses, and atypical pneumonias like chlamydia and mycoplasma pneumoniae? Or Lyme disease and co-infections?
  5. How does your program address hormonal imbalances, particularly hypothyroidism, low or high cortisol production, and deficiencies of imbalances of sex hormones?
Thank you very much.

Dr.-med.Igor Markov answers:
In this logical series of questions, one could still ask how “our program” solves the problem of secondary infertility, impotence, global warming, environmental pollution, etc.

Some of the questions (immune response, herpes viruses and other infections) can be answered by reading our Reports 1-6 “CBIS. Clinical diagnosis”, a significant part - has nothing to do with the etiology and pathogenesis of Nephrodysbacteriosis / CBIS. Many named and unnamed questions are a program of subsequent special in-depth clinical and laboratory study of this problem for a separate center (centers) of Nephrodysbacteriosis / CBIS on the basis of existing ME / CFS centers.

To Haru, June 28, at 6:24 PM:
Can one develop CBIS without extensive use of antibiotics?
Also I watched your video on YouTube where you mentioned the second most common symptom were the patients feeling like they drank poison; a poisoned feeling yet you haven’t mentioned this symptom in any of the case studies you illustrated.

Dr.-med.Igor Markov answers:
Yes, it may be. In 5-10% of patients with Nephrodysbacteriosis / CBIS, when researching most carefully their anamnesis, it was not possible to establish a connection with the use of antibiotics: they either simply did not exist at all, or in a minimal amount and long time ago.

Complaint about the “feeling of poisoning” was usually immediately “decoded” by patients, naming such symptoms as headache, dizziness, sweating, lack of strength to get up from bed in the morning after a full sleep (“life in bed”), pain in joints or muscles, difficulties while walking and driving a car, etc. - the statistics of each are given in Table 1 "Clinical manifestations of CBIS in children and adults (n = 4500)" (see Report 2 “CBIS. Clinical diagnosis” of the study “Chronic Bacterial Intoxication Syndrome under the mask of CFS/ME”).

To Haru, June 29, at 6:46 AM:
Also there are some clinics in the US that treat with auto vaccines. Wold their treatment work in the same way you are proposing or is there an entirely different technique in your treatment?

Dr.-med.Igor Markov answers:
we don’t know such treatment in the USA with autovaccines and what it was related to. To answer you in details, please give us additional info. regading such treatments.
 
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Cipher

Senior Member
Messages
806
Dr.-med.Igor Markov answers:
We did not and do not plan to do it ourselves or recommend it to other researchers. With regard to our patients and diagnoses of CFS / ME and Nephrodysbacteriosis / CBIS, this is an unnecessary and simply barbaric study. A bladder infection does not cause CBIS: it is simply one of the gateways for an ascending kidney infection.

Thank you for taking the time to answer our questions. If you have not performed kidney biopsies, then what evidence do you have that supports the theory that the infection only resides in the kidneys and not the bladder?
 
Messages
21
Dr.-med.Igor Markov answers:
we don’t know such treatment in the USA with autovaccines and what it was related to. To answer you in details, please give us additional info. regading such treatments.
Auto vaccines is not a new concept and some clinics in the US although very few use it to treat bacterial infections in humans, They are used extensively and effectively in animals.
 

Learner1

Senior Member
Messages
6,305
Location
Pacific Northwest
I have some questions.

How does your treatment address oxidative and nitrosative stress, including formation of peroxynitrites, impairment of mito complex I and peroxynitrite damage mito membranes, which are known features of ME/CFS?

How does your program address low in case cell function or low B cells?

How does your program address nutrient deficiencies like B12, vitamin D, minerals like zinc, magnesium, molybdenum or iron, or amino acids?

How does your program address PCR positive EBV, HHV6, and other herpes family viruses, cocksackie viruses, and atypical pneumonias like chlamydia and mycoplasma pneumoniae? Or Lyme disease and co-infections?

How does your program address hormonal imbalances, particularly hypothyroidism, low or high cortisol production, and deficiencies of imbalances of sex hormones?

Thank you very much.

Dr.-med.Igor Markov answers:
In this logical series of questions, one could still ask how “our program” solves the problem of secondary infertility, impotence, global warming, environmental pollution, etc. Some of the questions (immune response, herpes viruses and other infections) can be answered by reading our Reports 1-6 “CBIS. Clinical diagnosis”, a significant part - has nothing to do with the etiology and pathogenesis of Nephrodysbacteriosis / CBIS. Many named and unnamed questions are a program of subsequent special in-depth clinical and laboratory study of this problem for a separate center (centers) of Nephrodysbacteriosis / CBIS on the basis of existing ME / CFS centers.
Dr. Markov,

I asked the above questions because they affect many ME/CFS patients, and the ME/CFS research supports their being a part of the disease, at least for known subsets of patients.

Are you not testing them in patients to see if they are a problem to begin with or to see if any progress is made with your auto vaccine protocol?

Personally, I'd be willing to give it a try, but spending $2,000 on a flight to see you, plus lodging, the wear and tear of traveling, and COVID risk (I'm vaccinated but immunodeficient so do not know if the COVID vaccine worked), so I'd like more information on how your protocol might affect the questions I asked as I was not able to make it out in your literature.

Thank you very much.
 

perrier

Senior Member
Messages
1,254
Dear Dr. Markov,
How long have you been doing this treatment? I showed your protocol to someone who also treats this condition, and he said that your proposals are most interesting, but he worries that the 'infections' will just return, as the infected cells are not wiped out. So, the next question is: how long do patients stay in remission? And do they need booster vaccines at regular intervals? You may have referred to this, but I am sure patients here would be very interested to hear again what the future would be after the vaccine. I wonder if you would be so kind as to address this. Thank you in advance.
 

hb8847

Senior Member
Messages
432
Location
United Kingdom
Dear Dr Markov,

Does your treatment help people with Mast Cell Activation Disorders too (a condition occasionally found in patients with ME/CFS)? Common symptoms include multiple food and chemical sensitivities - does your treatment usually help with this?

And are patients generally able to tolerate your autovaccines, do patients ever have bad reactions to them?

Thank you.

(EDIT - I've just read in Hip's summary article apparently there haven't been any negative reactions to the autovaccines to date).
 
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Reading_Steiner

Senior Member
Messages
245
Do patients which are found with what you describe as CBIS often tend to have any separate secondary conditions that appear to develop as a consequence of living for years with the CBIS or its toxins ? Is there a reduced function of the kidney ? and specifically does there appear to be an increased prevalence of kidney stone ?
 
Messages
70
Dear Dr. Markov,

I have made a basic urine culture analysis for the detection of bacteria, and they have not found anything!

My questions for you are the following, please:

1. I know you have mentioned a specific type of agar plates:

Dr Markov requires 3 urine samples taken on three consecutive days. If the patient is taking any antibiotic treatment, they should wait at least one month after the completion of the course of antibiotics before they provide these urine samples.

The urine sample is cultured on three different agar plates (CLED agar, MacConkey agar, and UriSelect® chromogenic agar). 1

I do not know what type of agar plate they've used! Should I call and ask them?

2. Is it really necessary to collect the sample on three consecutive days? Is this detail very important?

3. Can you confirm that you have tried on your patients to use the basic urine culture analysis and you haven't found anything suspicious, but when you did the 3 days procedure with those specific agar plates, you did found the overgrowth of those bacteria?

Thank you very much, and I am looking forward to hearing from you!
 
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To Cipher, June 30, at 4:18 PM:
Dr.-med.Igor Markov answers:

We did not and do not plan to do it ourselves or recommend it to other researchers. With regard to our patients and diagnoses of CFS / ME and Nephrodysbacteriosis / CBIS, this is an unnecessary and simply barbaric study. A bladder infection does not cause CBIS: it is simply one of the gateways for an ascending kidney infection.

Cipher’s Question: Thank you for taking the time to answer our questions. If you have not performed kidney biopsies, then what evidence do you have that supports the theory that the infection only resides in the kidneys and not the bladder?

Dr.-med.Igor Markov answers:
First of all, infection in the bladder has to be clinically manifested as cistitis; secondly, infection neither in the bladder, nor anywhere else in the urinary tract can cause generalized intoxication of the organism, as it cause infection in the kidneys (bacterial endo- and exotoxins in the kidneys cause lesion of various organs and systems of the organism).
To evidence once more that only infection just in the kidneys is responsible for such intoxication, it would be desirable further researches of pathogenesis and metabolic processes in the kidneys on the “thiner” level.

At any case, the proven treatment of ME/CFS-CBIS with autovaccines is effective against ME/CFS-CBIS as well as against most bacterial infections of the urinary tract (incl.the bladder etc.), caused by urino-cultures.

To Flnn, July 4, at 11:34 AM:
During urine bacteriological examination it’s necessary to cultivate the morning WARM urine (that 2.5-2.7 times increases the sensitivity of the method and the probability of a positive/objective result of the bacteriological examination), received naturally three times (three days in a row) or else three times and else three times (until under the presence of clear clinical symptoms of ME/CFS-CBIS will be isolated urinobacteria, using proven test-systems Diaslide® DS-101 and DS-105 (Novamed, Israel) with nutrient media CLED agar, McConkey agar and chromogenic agar UriSelect - see Report 7 “CBIS. Bacteriological diagnosis” of the study “Chronic Bacterial Intoxication Syndrome (CBIS) under the mask of CFS/ME”). In the case of growth of cultures of microorganisms, they have to be re-cultivated on Petri-dishes with nutrient medium meat-peptone agar with the addition of 5%-blood or Endo medium, Saburo agar, Mueller-Hinton agar (to identify bacteria of the genus Pseudomonas) and some others according to the standard procedure of identification of isolated cultures.
 

hb8847

Senior Member
Messages
432
Location
United Kingdom
Question for Dr Markov:

Dear Dr Markov,

Thank you for responding again.

You have made several positive claims about treatment of ME/CFS with autovaccines, for example in your most recent post:

At any case, the proven treatment of ME/CFS-CBIS with autovaccines is effective against ME/CFS-CBIS as well as against most bacterial infections of the urinary tract (incl.the bladder etc.), caused by urino-cultures.


To date though, we only have your word to go on that this is a "proven treatment". We do not have a single account of a patient even having undergone your autovaccine treatment for ME/CFS, let alone having recovered, even though you claim that your clinic has treated thousands of patients, with recovery rate of over 90%.

It strikes me that the most effective way of building international credibility and awareness of your autovaccine treatment is by providing patient testimonials. Indeed, on this site, the fact you are unable to provide any such testimonials seems to be the biggest red flag about your theory.

In light of this, could you please provide some patient testimonials? Or would you be able to contact some of your former ME/CFS patients to see whether they would be willing to provide one, or if they would be willing to reach out to the wider ME/CFS community to talk about their experiences?

You have suggested that your recovered patients might not like talking about their prior illness, I find that highly unlikely - as we've seen on this forum, the first thing people generally do once they recover is share their experience with the rest of the community in the hope it helps someone else.

I understand you might be unwilling to contact your former patients. But unless you do I struggle to see how you can proceed in any significant way to convince the wider health community to take your claims seriously. The ME/CFS community could be your biggest advocate, but it is incredibly unlikely to help promote your treatment without at least some evidence of it actually working.
 
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To Perrier, July 1, 12:48 AM:
Dear Dr. Markov,
How long have you been doing this treatment? I showed your protocol to someone who also treats this condition, and he said that your proposals are most interesting, but he worries that the 'infections' will just return, as the infected cells are not wiped out. So, the next question is: how long do patients stay in remission?
And do they need booster vaccines at regular intervals?
You may have referred to this, but I am sure patients here would be very interested to hear again
what the future would be after the vaccine.
I wonder if you would be so kind as to address this. Thank you in advance.


Dr.-med.Igor Markov answers:
1) The infections that we treat in connection with Nephrodysbacteriosis / CBIS "return" every day. Every day, there is a new infection with staphylococcus (by airborne droplets) and bacteria of the intestinal group (autoinfection by contact-household). That is why the treatment of these chronic infections from the standpoint of "killing" with antibiotics is strategically unpromising and clinically ineffective. The bacteria are located on the surface of the mucous membranes, so there are no "infected cells to destroy." Autovaccines restore local immunity on mucous membranes, returning to cells their natural barrier function.

2) When treating with bacterial autovaccines, regardless of the localization of the focus of chronic bacterial infection (in the nasopharynx, in the mouth, in the eyes, in the bronchi and/or in the lungs, in the genitourinary system, including in the kidneys - Nephrodysbacteriosis / CBIS or pyelonephritis) complete recovery was determined by 3 main criteria, understandable and accessible to both the patient and his attending physician/doctor:
- clinical: absence of complaints and objective symptoms of the disease, which were determined before starting treatment;
- microscopic: normalization of the general analysis of urine (in cases of its initial deviation from the norm)
and
- bacteriological: the absence of pathogenic and conditional-pathogenic flora in warm urine cultures (or from other concomitant foci, for example, in the nasopharynx with chronic staphylococcal infection, which is the main source of subsequent kidney infection).

With a disease duration of 3-5 years, the absence of these 3 criteria for 1 year was considered by us as clinical recovery. With longer periods of ME/CFS disease (up to 10 years or more), we were careful and more often have considered the absence of complaints as a stable long-term remission, sometimes throughout the foreseeable future life. Although it should be noted that sometimes patients who fully recovered 5-7 years ago from Nephrodysbacteriosis/CBIS, returned to the clinic due to the relapse of certain symptoms of the disease. But these symptoms were always much less pronounced compared to the initial episode. In addition, patients suffered less, because they already knew the true origin of their state and went to the clinic, without wasting time on visits to other specialists, in several weeks/months after their resumption. Therefore, booster doses of bacterial vaccines (for reliability after the carried out vaccination course) are really needed, but not regularly and not for everyone: most of the patients who underwent treatment, never returned to the clinic.

Treatment schemes have always been individual, but they also had common features. One cycle consisted of 2-3 courses of immunization with bacterial vaccines. One course of immunization consisted of 10 subcutaneous injections in increasing dosage during 20-21 days. An interval of 3 to 4 weeks was maintained between courses. The treatment cycle generally lasted from 70 to 110 days, depending on the number of courses. The intervals between treatment cycles were usually maintained for 3 months. It should be noted that some particularly impressionable patients felt the first long-awaited positive results of treatment within a few days after the first injections of the bacterial vaccine. But! After improvement of the state, there was almost always a relapse, a kind of "rollback" a little back, the state of health became worse. At this moment, the most important thing was not to lose heart. This largely depended on the attending physician and the "credit of trust" that he received. Then, with the beginning of the next course of immunization, the state improved again, then worsened again ... Such a kind of swing: better - worse, better - worse, better, the movement of which gradually slows down. Usually this movement characterizes the typical course of both the CBIS-ME/CFS disease itself and the clinical response to treatment with bacterial vaccines. But with each subsequent course, the state of health becomes better and better, approaching the mark of "100% recovery" and almost never returns during the deterioration to the “zero” from which the treatment began.

The overall success after completion of immunization with bacterial autovaccines among patients with CBIS, who underwent such treatment and remained under follow-up observation, was achieved in 1858/1912 (97.2%) children and in 1962/2063 (95.1%) adults, in general - in 3820/3975 (96.1%) cases. After the first immunization cycle, which lasted from 70 to 110 days, depending on the number of courses prescribed within one cycle, recovery occurred in 70.3% (2684/3820) of patients. Taking into account the different terms of the disease of CBIS, this could be considered as a good result. The second cycle of treatment was needed in 14.5% (554/3820) of patients, the third - another 10.2% (390/3820), and only in 5.0% of cases (192/3820), there was needed an additional 4th, and sometimes even the 5th cycle.

In the vast majority of patients with CBIS (71.9%) who received treatment with bacterial vaccines, the disease lasted from 4 to 7 years (1547/3975 or 38.9%) and from 8 to 15 years (1314/3975 or 33.0%). Else in 661/3975 (16.8%) cases, the duration of the disease ranged from 1 to 3 years, in 270/3975 (6.7%) - up to 1 year and in a small number of patients (183/3975 or 4.6%) - from 16 to 25 years old, and in some individual cases even more. Just in this group of so-called long-livers with CBIS-ME/CFS the results of treatment were the lowest in comparison with other groups with a shorter duration of the disease - 84.7%. The best results were obtained when the disease was up to 7 years old - from 97.2% to 98.9%. An increase in the duration of the illness to 8-15 years led to a slight decrease in the index of recovery - to 94.3%. The overall success of treatment with bacterial vaccines, made from autostrains of bacteria isolated from urine, at the level of 96.1% (3820/3975) was considered high enough and such that it undoubtedly took patients with CBIS-ME/CFS out of the blind corner or triple dead end, which we have already mentioned about earlier (see Report 2 “CBIS. Clinical diagnosis” of the study “CBIS under the mask of CFS/ME”, 8th Intern.Congress for Infectious Diseases, Febr.15-16, 2021, London, UK: https://www.longdom.org/proceedings...n-syndrome-under-the-mask-of-cfsme-59051.html ; p.32-116).

In connection with these two questions, two remarks from the authors are needed. First, since infection with bacteria that cause Nephrodysbacteriosis/CBIS occurs daily and repeatedly, lifelong resistance to them cannot be formed. That is the post-vaccination immunity in this case necessarily requires additional immunization, as, for example, with diphtheria (every 10 years), with influenza or COVID-19 (every 9-12 months). Such vaccination for Nephrodysbacteriosis/CBIS can be both therapeutic (with the resumption of symptoms that do not go away on their own in 2-3 weeks), and preventive - with positive/good results of bacteriological examination of warm urine and on the background of clinical well-being. Secondly, there are many co-factor causes that lead to a weakening of local immunity on the mucous membranes and can provoke an exacerbation of Nephrodysbacteriosis/CBIS. One of these main provoking reasons is the use of antibiotics. Just in these cases the booster vaccinations are predominantly needed.
 
Messages
70
To Flnn, July 4, at 11:34 AM:
During urine bacteriological examination it’s necessary to cultivate the morning WARM urine (that 2.5-2.7 times increases the sensitivity of the method and the probability of a positive/objective result of the bacteriological examination), received naturally three times (three days in a row) or else three times and else three times (until under the presence of clear clinical symptoms of ME/CFS-CBIS will be isolated urinobacteria, using proven test-systems Diaslide® DS-101 and DS-105 (Novamed, Israel) with nutrient media CLED agar, McConkey agar and chromogenic agar UriSelect - see Report 7 “CBIS. Bacteriological diagnosis” of the study “Chronic Bacterial Intoxication Syndrome (CBIS) under the mask of CFS/ME”). In the case of growth of cultures of microorganisms, they have to be re-cultivated on Petri-dishes with nutrient medium meat-peptone agar with the addition of 5%-blood or Endo medium, Saburo agar, Mueller-Hinton agar (to identify bacteria of the genus Pseudomonas), and some others according to the standard procedure of identification of isolated cultures.

Thank you for your reply, Dr. Markov!

1. Is there any possibility to order those slides from Israel or from you and do the test 3 days in a row as a patient at home without the intervention of a doctor and see the results as well? Or do they have to be interpreted by a specialist?

2. What is your opinion on Urine Microscopy? Have you ever tried it with these patients? https://tidsskriftet.no/en/2014/09/perspectives/urine-microscopy-important-diagnostic-tool

I do have a phase-contrast microscope at home and do know how to distinguish between red blood cells, white blood cells, inflammation, macrophages, motile bacteria, some protozoan parasites, epithelial cells...should I go for it with the first sample in the morning? :)

3. You've mentioned something about these bacteria in your paper, which belong to the Proteobacteria phylum from my research (please correct me if I am wrong), and are normally living in the gut, and somehow they end up in the kidneys plus they create a paralysis effect of the immune system, leading to a chronic infection - chronic disease, correct?

I have found 2 papers that share your theory, and it's quite interesting! It seems that intestinal permeability (leaky gut) plays a huge role.



The intestinal microbiota, a leaky gut, and abnormal immunity in kidney disease

"Persistent innate immune activation involves the induction of immunoregulatory mediators that suppress innate and adaptive immunity, similar to the concept of 'endotoxin tolerance' or 'immune paralysis' in advanced sepsis or chronic infections. "



The gut as a source of inflammation in chronic kidney disease

"Post-mortem studies previously discovered gut wall inflammation present throughout the digestive tract in chronic dialysis patients.

In CKD animals, colon wall inflammation is associated with breakdown of the epithelial tight junction barrier (“leaky gut”) and translocation of bacterial DNA and endotoxin into the bloodstream.

Gut bacterial DNA and endotoxin have also been detected in the serum from CKD and dialysis patients, whereby endotoxin levels increase with CKD stage and correlate with severity of systemic inflammation in the dialysis population.

The CKD diet that is low in plant fiber and symbiotic organisms (in adherence with low potassium, low phosphorus intake) can alter the normal gut microbiome, leading to overgrowth of bacteria that produce uremic toxins such as cresyl and indoxyl molecules.

The translocation of these toxins from the “leaky gut” into the bloodstream further promotes systemic inflammation, adverse cardiovascular outcomes and CKD progression.

I guess in order to fix this kidney issue, we also need to address the intestinal permeability issue plus making sure we don't ingest anything that can damage the gut (antibiotics, PPI's, etc.) correct?



4. Do you think there is any connection between this Kidney Disease in ME/CFS and abnormal readings of Calcium, Mg, Na, and K especially in the tissue analysis?

Thank you and I am looking forward to your answers!
 

Hip

Senior Member
Messages
17,786
Question for Dr Oleg Markov:

In the unpublished study "CBIS Report 8. Toxicological Diagnosis" which you kindly sent to me by email, Dr Markov tested CBIS ME/CFS patients using the Toxicon lab test, and discovered that 81% of patients have severe toxemia.

This discovery of toxemia (high levels of bacterial toxins in the blood) in ME/CFS is remarkable.


Do you have any information about the Toxicon lab test? When I searched in Google, I could not find any details about the Toxicon test. I understand the Toxicon test was developed by Ukrainian scientists, led by toxicologist Dr Borys S. Sheiman.


Can patients send their blood samples to the Toxicon lab to be tested for bacterial toxins?

Do you know of any laboratory in Europe or the US which offers lab tests similar to the Toxicon test?
 
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