Managing Potassium Deficiency - Share your experience

[Victronix]

Oh yes, and this has been on my mind a lot lately, Fredd's experiments with other Bs, and finding that they seemed to overdrive things and made his need for potassium much more intense.

Just checking the forum I see that he now reports:

Finally I discontinued the b1 and suddenly the need for Metafolin and potassium quieted down. . . . The active b12s and folate and carnitine don't DRIVE these cycles. Biotin, B1, B2 , B3 and maybe pantithine drive these cycles and determine how the deadlock quartet are used.

So I'm considering trying to move to straight methylfolate . . . but probably should do it in stages . . . not thrilled with idea of more changes though, when I've finally gotten to a full capsule of mfolate. Dividing up doses is really annoying after months and months of it.

 

[caledonia]

I think orthomolecular medicine might answer your queries relating to mineral balance. Have you had hair/mineral analysis done ? Have you had it done before commencing a methylation protocol and then later ? As I read through your comments about the overlapping symptoms between K+ and Mg deficiency I'm reminded of some of they key tenets of orthomolecular medicine. That Potassium and Magnesium are closely dependant and work synergistically (particularly with Zinc) to create a more efficient cellular environment. I think many of us would be able to save a lot of money on wasted potassium supplements if we incorporated this knowledge of orthomolecular medicine. IIRC taking potassium on its on results in increased aldosterone which then simply causes potassium excretion. The solution? Ensure you take some salt with the potassium. You might still get the potassium losing effects of the aldosterone increase but the salt will be retained to lower the excessive calcium which is the usual problem for the elderly and almost certainly those with CFS/ME. When sodium and potassium are increased in the future this lowers the calcium and speeds up cellular function which is what most (not all) need. It takes your body from being a slow oxidiser to becoming a fast oxidiser...

I also do salt with my electrolytes. I haven't done hair mineral analysis.

Yasko uses hair mineral analysis. I found out the blood analyses are more like a snapshot in time based on what you ate recently. So I can see where hair testing would be the way to go.

 

[caledonia]

Oh yes, and this has been on my mind a lot lately, Fredd's experiments with other Bs, and finding that they seemed to overdrive things and made his need for potassium much more intense.

Just checking the forum I see that he now reports:

Finally I discontinued the b1 and suddenly the need for Metafolin and potassium quieted down. . . . The active b12s and folate and carnitine don't DRIVE these cycles. Biotin, B1, B2 , B3 and maybe pantithine drive these cycles and determine how the deadlock quartet are used.

So I'm considering trying to move to straight methylfolate . . . but probably should do it in stages . . . not thrilled with idea of more changes though, when I've finally gotten to a full capsule of mfolate. Dividing up doses is really annoying after months and months of it.

I saw this, and now I'm confused. We're "supposed" to take a B complex. My Nutreval showed a need for B2 and B5 in particular, if I'm remembering correctly.

I was doing ok with Yasko's B Complex, which has a low level of B6 for CBS. I'm not thrilled about it having folic acid though.

I could see where doing the B's separately to get it all customized for just you might be necessary. However, I don't relish taking 6 pills all divided up into tiny little doses, when maybe one would do.

I still think keeping the doses low on everything while you're rebuilding would be sufficient.

 

[caledonia]

I found out this very interesting thing while I was doing research on potassium. Apparently, pregnant women are very similar to us! Pregnant women will have a 50% increase in blood volume, plus there's all that cell building for the fetus. They require 4700mg of potassium per day. It's not uncommon for pregnant women to become potassium deficient. It's recommended that they get their potassium from food.

http://www.babycenter.com/0_potassium-in-your-pregnancy-diet_655.bc

 

[Violeta]

I was looking for possible reasons for needing so much potassium the other day and found hyperaldosteronism can cause it. Also, lack of vasopressin. I don't know how they would tie in to methylation, though.

 

[Violeta]

Also, cortisol can affect the potassium levels. Stress, adrenals, hormones, Th2 branch of the immune system in overdrive, stunted Th1 branch of the immune system, liver overwhelmed with adrenal hormones. It all does fit into my profile
http://dujs.dartmouth.edu/fall-2010...l-and-the-hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal-axis

 

[Violeta]

I would like to share a minor miracle! The bottom of my two front upper teeth has been translucent for about about two years. Some of the inside of the teeth got ground away because of the position of my lower teeth and the softness of all of my teeth. My dentist is conservative and didn't want to do anything about it.

I started taking this magnesium/potassium combination http://www.iherb.com/Twinlab-CellMins-Potassium-Magnesium-180-Capsules/2378 about a week ago, quit gluten 3 days ago, and started taking reishi for adrenals some time in the past week or two. When I quit the gluten I started drinking a lot of orange juice, which used to make my teeth look worse.

Yesterday I noticed that my teeth are no longer translucent! I was afraid it wouldn't stay that way; I keep checking in the mirror. It's still white! I can hardly believe it. I had been taking Enzymatic Kreb's cycle magnesium/potassium and potassium gluconate, and that didn't do anything for it.

 

[Violeta]

Also, cortisol can affect the potassium levels. Stress, adrenals, hormones, Th2 branch of the immune system in overdrive, stunted Th1 branch of the immune system, liver overwhelmed with adrenal hormones. It all does fit into my profile
http://dujs.dartmouth.edu/fall-2010...l-and-the-hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal-axis

One way this might tie in to methylation problems is that they can be caused by stress. Autoimmune problems (CFS/ME) can be caused by stress (see above link), and hyperestrogenism can be indirectly caused by stress by congesting the liver. Does that make sense?

 

[Little Bluestem]

What I worry about is traveling -- what if I lost my powder? It's a specialty item I have to order online -- you can't just go out and buy it in a store.

NOW brand makes potassium gluconate powder and I think that is a fairly common brand. Any store that carried NOW could order it for you if they did not have it in stock.

Of course there is no guarantee of finding a store with it in stock when you are traveling. I would carry several containers in different places (suitcase, carry on, purse, pocket) and/or ship some ahead.

 

[howirecovered]

i'm up to 3200 mg (1500 mb potassium bicarbonate, 1500 mg potassium citrate and 200 mg potassium gluconate) but my urine pH is way too alkaline. thought I might be able to balance it with vitamin C but that's probably impractical considering my bowel tolerance. Any ideas for fixing this? i wanted to stay away from the forms of potassium Dr. Wilson calls toxic: http://drlwilson.com/ARTICLES/POTASSIUM-TOXIC.htm

 

[Sparrowhawk]

Camu camu is a food based low glycemic powder that has high vitamin C, you might try that? My bowels are a mess and I seem to tolerate it ok if I add a teaspoon a day to my coconut pancake recipe.

 

[Helen]

Hi all,

Some years ago Dr. Amy Yasko who was the first to offer a genetest for SNP´s in the methylation cycle, stopped analysing the ACE SNP. In her first version of the test the ACE SNP was included. The reason was that almost everyone had an ACE deletion so she told that she would rather test another SNP in her 30 SNP panel.

For you that have had a 23andme test it is possible to check if you too have this deletion. (Go to Browse your data and fill in ACE in the left box). Unfortunately it is not included in the panel from www.GeneticGenie.com.

As this deletion might have, or probably has, an impact on the sodium/potassium balance I wonder if someone with more knowledge could shed some light on this issue. Maybe there is something connected to this deletion that give so many of us problem with symptoms of potassium deficiency.

Helen

 

[caledonia]

Update on me - I've settled on 450mg of magnesium. I'm feeling much better and back to sleeping well.

This is 75% percent lower than what I was taking for many years. I believe the reason is that my adrenals are 75% better based on the amount I've also been able to reduce salt supplementation. This improvement is from doing methylation treatment. I've also had a 50% improvement in hypothyroidism documented by testing and the amount of medicine I need.

No wonder I was ODing on the much larger amounts of magnesium!

I also use self muscle testing to determine amounts of supps/meds to take, but the muscle testing is reliant on being well hydrated and having a good electrolyte balance. So it can be misleading in this situation.

 

[caledonia]

Hi all,

Some years ago Dr. Amy Yasko who was the first to offer a genetest for SNP´s in the methylation cycle, stopped analysing the ACE SNP. In her first version of the test the ACE SNP was included. The reason was that almost everyone had an ACE deletion so she told that she would rather test another SNP in her 30 SNP panel.

For you that have had a 23andme test it is possible to check if you too have this deletion. (Go to Browse your data and fill in ACE in the left box). Unfortunately it is not included in the panel from www.GeneticGenie.com.

As this deletion might have, or probably has, an impact on the sodium/potassium balance I wonder if someone with more knowledge could shed some light on this issue. Maybe there is something connected to this deletion that give so many of us problem with symptoms of potassium deficiency.

Helen

This brings up 53 ACE genes - which is the right one?

 

[Violeta]

i'm up to 3200 mg (1500 mb potassium bicarbonate, 1500 mg potassium citrate and 200 mg potassium gluconate) but my urine pH is way too alkaline. thought I might be able to balance it with vitamin C but that's probably impractical considering my bowel tolerance. Any ideas for fixing this? i wanted to stay away from the forms of potassium Dr. Wilson calls toxic: http://drlwilson.com/ARTICLES/POTASSIUM-TOXIC.htm

This is what my vet gave me for my dog whose urine pH was too high.

http://www.amazon.com/Eight-Righteous-Teapills-Zheng-3325-MayWay/dp/B004RBTFA4

It's a human product.

 

[Helen]

This brings up 53 ACE genes - which is the right one?

According to this
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ar76dNWyEQLIdExKZUhfXzFUWHpkWnZObk1TM1dxX0E&hl=en#gid=0
it should be rs 1799752. Unfortunately there is no known source to this. I showed it to a ME/CFS doctor/researcher who got very excited and said it should be replicated with well defined participants. Hopefully we will get the results from the ongoing genome study.

But the question is still if the deletion is of any importance for PWME. It is, if Dr. Yasko is right.

 

[nandixon]

According to this
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ar76dNWyEQLIdExKZUhfXzFUWHpkWnZObk1TM1dxX0E&hl=en#gid=0
it should be rs 1799752. Unfortunately there is no known source to this. I showed it to a ME/CFS doctor/researcher who got very excited and said it should be replicated with well defined participants. Hopefully we will get the results from the ongoing genome study.

But the question is still if the deletion is of any importance for PWME. It is, if Dr. Yasko is right.

A very good proxy for Yasko's ACE Del16 is rs4343, which 23andMe tests for. The G allele represents a deletion, the A allele an insertion. See SNPedia here:
http://snpedia.com/index.php/Rs4343

 

[Milford]

Hi Caledonia. I get similar symptoms to yours for both mg and K+. The low K+ also gives me heartburn-like feelings. Initially I treated this heartburn w/ small doses of bicarb, which worked. Then I made the K+ connection, which is much better. It was in rereading Freddd's post re hypokalemia that I finally understood, only a couple months ago, that many of my worst acute symptoms over these years of ME/CFS were low K+: feeling faint, fear of having to walk a block in town, as I was so weak and shaky, lightheadedness. I've been on the same levels of the methyl protocol (Deadlock Quartet) since March, so that's stable.

I've been using K+gluconate form for several years, powder. (NOW, from iherb). My baseline dose is about 1g, AM & PM. When stressed I need more. Last week I was in a major metal detox, with constant diarrhea, and needed massive amounts, as well as huge amounts of mg. Over the past year I've been using mg oil, which I make from mg chloride flakes. I found I still needed to add oral mg. During this crisis last week, I was taking handfuls of mg malate, needing to get up in the night for not only K+ and mg, but also extra GABA and glycine.

The huge number of supps made me reconsider my method. Over the past year I've been using footbaths. This evolved into 2 baths. The first has clay, charcoal, and lysine for my sulfur issues. The second has vit C, grapefruit seed extract, and mg oil. I decided to try to K+ in the 2nd water, which worked. No more flushing discomfort after taking it orally. Then I ramped up my mg to 500 ml and more of mg oil in the footbath. No more oral mg needed! After this succes, I considered all the other powders I take twice a day. I've now added all my aminos as well as TMG, biotin, inositiol...anything that I have in powder form, into the footbath. What a revolution! I've only been doing this 2-3 days, so I'm still v excited about this new practice. My body's absorbing everything it needs this way, which I'm sure eases the internal systems.

I manage my supp doses by symptoms and self-testing. I would be lost w/o self-testing. I'm attaching a link for a lecture I've not yet heard, re muscle testing. I don't know anything about the presenter, who has a DVD teaching how to self-test, and will be listening to him soon. I now accept that I have high K+ needs, and have even considered getting a mediAlert medallion warning I have hypokalemia. So far, I've just improvised by writing this on a key tag. But I now understand that this might be the most critical thing for me in a crisis. I only got to this understanding by tuning into my body. No professional ever checked this or mentioned it. Best to you, ahmo

https://app.box.com/shared/ya56c4btgr/1/33266866/10617519755/1

When you said you were in a major metal detox and needed massive amounts of potassium...... How much is massive ?!!
I wonder if the metal dumping is why I seem to need so much K. Just as soon as I get the methylation going with lithium b12 and folate I get very strong detox and metal taste in my mouth. Why does the need for K go up with metal dumping ? Is it to do with Metallothionine or is that just Zinc ?

 

[ahmo]

When you said you were in a major metal detox and needed massive amounts of potassium...... How much is massive ?!!
I wonder if the metal dumping is why I seem to need so much K. Just as soon as I get the methylation going with lithium b12 and folate I get very strong detox and metal taste in my mouth. Why does the need for K go up with metal dumping ? Is it to do with Metallothionine or is that just Zinc ?

Hi Mitford. It was massive for Me. My baseline creeped up to 3.2 g/day, with 1/2 AM and PM (1Tb K gluconate powder). Then I needed an additional tsp (540 mg) 1-2 x during day, plus in the middle of the night. So my increased needs probably totalled around 5g. I was also needing magnesium to accompany the K+, 400-800 mg several times a day.

I know metallothionine only by name, have no understanding about it. I also don't know why the need goes up w/ metal dumping. For me this dump took the form of a week long extreme diarrhea, so the most superficial explanation would say I had very depleted electrolytes just due to that. I don't have a scientific understanding. My zinc needs remained stable during this, but I tested for increased selenium, glycine, GABA. Then the episode ended, and now, 2-3 weeks later, I've resumed my lower doses, as well as needing to decrease my mfolate and TMG, due to over-methylation. This would fit the theory that the metals were suppressing my methylation, and their release has shifted things. ahmo

 

[BFG]

Has anyone here tried http://www.iherb.com/Mt-Capra-Capra-Mineral-Whey-50-8-oz-1440-g/3105.
It looks really good with a whole bunch of potassium and other minerals.

I emailed the company to find out why there was so much potassium and they told me that it occurs naturally and they dehydrate the goatwhey. Then I asked about heavy metals esp mercury and they gave me the attached sheet.

So per 100g of mineral whey there is <3.6mcg mercury. I am not sure how I feel about that. Do you think it would be okay?