Managing Potassium Deficiency - Share your experience

[Snowdrop]

@kraken
The Mast Cell/Histamine issue sounds like a good avenue to explore.
I've never read that anywhere in relation to methylating. I'm glad you mentioned it. It will give me something to consider myself as I've been having similar problems recently while doing Methyl Protocol.

 

[Victronix]

Okay, so it sounds like if you back off on the mfolate and the potassium (if you suspect it might be too high, you might want to try not taking ANY, although I don't know what is best), you could see if things improve by tomorrow, although none of this is linear, as you know -- one can be doing the right thing but have it feel worse, and vice versa. Then just wait for the test results.

I also did not show as having any magnesium deficiency (on two different types of tests) but I was having muscle pain every single day, particularly after doing any walking or lifting, etc., but accidentally found that all that went away when I started taking magnesium. Magnesium is another one you want to go easy with in terms of dosages, and it needs to be a calcium-magnesium, not just magnesium, or you can cause digestive problems.

 

[ahmo]

@kraken I find I need extra K+ almost every time I increase folate. I generally take extra mg at the same time. I don't generally need to stay on the increased dose. Your dose isn't really so large. I'm typically taking 1 gm twice a day, baseline, when nothing's going on, like stress or detox.

I have histamine and mast cell issues, take a number of supps that have eliminated (!) my reactions. When I increase folate I often get histaminic response soon after. I've had remarkably good and consistent results by immediately taking a 1mg MB12. This extra dose may or may not become incorporated into my ongoing total B12, depending upon my needs the following day. Re mast cells/histamines, what's been working for me is rutin, royal jelly, and mangosteen. (Also a no histamine diet).

 

[caledonia]

Hi kraken,

My sense is that you might have not measured your heart rate correctly, however, if you did, yes, that would be extremely low and worthy of serious concern. Yes, it seems that COULD be a too high potassium symptom.

I would consider greatly reducing the mfolate, B-12 & TMG dosages and starting over at lower dosages. You also need to add at least B-1 and B-2 to offset some of the B-12 stimulation.

The response you describe, to me, seems like a panic attack, particularly the sense of lungs decreased in size.

Many people have indeed gone to the ER when they felt overwhelmed by symptoms and issues with breathing are obviously worthy of an ER visit if they don't change or improve. Its important to be sure, although that's up to you.

Please post an update when something changes.

Thanks,
Vic

A panic attack would have an extremely high heart rate.

 

[caledonia]

Speaking of Roadblocks to Methylation, I've run into yet another one (when will it end???!!!). I'm getting heart palps after I take potassium. Normally it's mild and I sort of ignored it, but I overdid some activity this past weekend and that made it worse enough to bring this to my attention. My sodium and magnesium are good, so I decided it might be calcium.

I drank some almond milk (high in calcium) and that seemed help quite a bit. However, I don't think I can drink enough almond milk daily to fix this deficiency.

Question - what is a good brand and/or form of calcium to take? Preferably it would be a powder that I could stir into water and take along with my potassium gluconate.

I ordered some Thorne calcium citramate and Thorne Pic Mins trace minerals because my last metal test showed I was low in most minerals including calcium. I'm high in copper (typical for many people with methylation problems) so I'm avoiding that in my supplementation. In the meantime, I've been eating sardines which are high in calcium and that has been quite helpful. I'm still not totally out of the woods, but definitely improved. Sleep is starting to improve again, and the heart palps are milder and less frequent.

My metal test showed my mercury is out - yay - finally. I have a pretty good amount of lead to get out though. The test is actually showing higher in lead that I've ever had, even though I did chelation in 2006. It can either mean a recent or ongoing exposure or just that it's coming out. I hope it's the latter.

When the mercury was coming out I was having trouble with Brazil nuts (selenium) and cilantro (just the amount you would use for a seasoning) causing too much metal detox. I can eat those again without problems. I was also having transitory acne, and that has stopped. So that corroborates with my metal test results.

The lead and mercury screw up the MTHFR and MTR enzymes so it adds to having those SNPs (I have both) and screws up your methylation even more. In the absence of those SNPs it would be the same as having those SNPs.

 

[caledonia]

@kraken
I have two documents addressing how to figure out doses and various other roadblocks. See Start Low and Go Slow and Roadblocks to Successful Methylation linked in my signature.

In most cases with methylation, less is more. If it makes you feel worse, it's better to cut back than to try to push through.

 

[Victronix]

A panic attack would have an extremely high heart rate.

Yes, I was initially assuming the HR of 45 was a mistake, but then I realized that a very low HR might make sense with high potassium.

I've only had one panic attack (due to a reaction to an antihistamine combined with a dramimine) and it felt like all of my clothes around my chest were shrinking . . . it was a very bizarre perceptual distortion to have, like that's all that the problem was, was that my clothes were shrinking. But pretty soon I realized that they were not shrinking . . .

 

[kraken]

I'm feeling a bit better today, not as intense as yesterday but shortness of breath is still present and my pulse is also low. Havn't taken any potassium today and reduced folate to 2,4 mg. Maybe i'll reduce it even more tomorrow just to see where it gets me.

Thanks @caledonia, i'll check them out. Might start low and build from there again, the only thing that would bother me is that several times I've run into what Freddd is calling paradoxical folate defiency, I get many of the symptoms which he listed regarding this and they've sort of cleared up by upping the folate. Not really sure how to get past that if I were to go slow. Maybe it could be something else.

@ahmo, that sounds pretty interesting regarding the histamine issues. Would you say that those 3 supps works for reducing overall histamine or is it mainly for blocking the reactions? Also, I dont know your experience but do you think those supplements would work for my mother ? She has pretty severe histamine issues with seasonal allergys like pollen, various leafy trees as well as some food allergys, perfume and many other stuff that often leave her in bed, unable to work.

 

[ahmo]

@kraken I don't know the method of action. that's a good question. We'd have to do a search to find out. There's another supp that I started with as recommended by Yasko: quercetin. I replaced it w/ mangosteen, my body favored the mangosteen. They might all have different actions, I don't know. but from my reading at lowhistaminechef.com an listening to an interview she did w/ Dr. Janice C....(?), my understanding is that they're equally effective to H1/2 meds. This Dr. said that H1/2 don't work as prophylcactics, so it's useless to use them as such. Rather, they work when there's a problem. Do all these supps do the same?

I've just begun a product formulated by mast cell expert and pharmacologist Dr. Theoharides. He designed Neuroprotek as a way of getting rutin into the brain to stop the histamine cascade that leads to neurological symptoms in autistic kids (and me). I felt it within hours, eliminated a number of my supps after this, including rutin, hypothalamus, pituitary. So that would seem to suggest it's preventing something not just blocking??? Time to research this one

 

[caledonia]

Thanks @caledonia, i'll check them out. Might start low and build from there again, the only thing that would bother me is that several times I've run into what Freddd is calling paradoxical folate defiency, I get many of the symptoms which he listed regarding this and they've sort of cleared up by upping the folate. Not really sure how to get past that if I were to go slow. Maybe it could be something else.

I just saw this email from Nancy Mullan MD who said lithium helps with uptake of both folate and B12. I was of the impression it was only B12. So maybe that would help with needing such a huge amount of folate to get a positive response.

She has a Tuesday night conference call where you can ask her questions. She's is a Yasko practitioner. If you sign up for her ebook, you can get on her mailing list and she'll send you an email with the number and code to get in. http://nancymullanmd.com/

 

[ahmo]

Hi Caledonia. This is v interesting re lithium/folate. Just to recount my own current experience. Discovering lithium a year ago really changed my whole emotional life. I stopped bursting into tears at every sad story. I used v low doses, per self-testing, for about 9 months. During the 4 months I've been in in an intensive detox mode w/ coffee enemas, I've needed more, for awhile 5 mg BID. Now that I'm immersed in this detox process I've been using 10mg TID. And, I've also been steadily increasing B12/folate to what would be described as mega doses: folate 22mg in 3 divided doses, B12 28mg in 3 divided doses. I'm feeling great, and most certainly look forward to a time of lowering doses of everything! cheers, ahmo

 

[whodathunkit]

Just a reminder that lithium can depress the thyroid. I experimented with a small dose (5mg/day) of the orotate form for a few weeks, and while I initially had a positive response, over time I noticed I was getting a little depressed/lethargic. I equated this with possibly the lithium affecting my thyroid, so stopped the lithium. I brightened up again after a couple days.

My experience could have been coincidence of mood/hormones, but just throwing it out there as a potential caution. If you're not specifically lithium deficient it may not be all that good for you to take daily. I plan to take some once per month, just for GP.

 

[juniemarie]

I had a very similar experience with my trial of lithium supplement as @whodathunkit . After just 1 1/2 days on it I got serious depression.
I wonder if it has to do with ones particular SNP's as to who it works for or doesn't ?

 

[juniemarie]

I have 2 bottles of DR'sBest Lithium Orotate if anyone is in need let me know.

 

[acrosstheveil]

i go through a lot of lithium orotate. let me know how much you want for the two bottles.

 

[pemone]

What do others think about potassium bicarbonate as a potassium supplement? I wanted the bicarb - taken without food and one hour before any meal - to help with alkalinity. I have read that potassium bicarbonate is a well-absorbed form of potassium and in research it spares calcium on the bone (that may just be the alkalinity).

Unfortunately, I am finding that the bicarb version causes me stomach burning sensations. I have no ulcer, no weak stomach, and this is a unique thing. I take potassium citrate up to 600 mg mixed with water and sodium bicarbonate with no problems. Anyone else have this problem with potassium bicarbonate?

 

[pemone]

Are any of you using a Potassium RBC test to measure Potassium inside the cell instead of the cheaper Potassium Serum test? Potassium is an intracellular electrolyte, so in theory measuring outside the cell really isn't giving us a good picture.

A related question: how do we know the potassium we take is even getting absorbed into the cell? The movement of potassium into the cell takes energy, and the whole point of CFS is reduced ATP production and reduced energy, and all processes happen slower.

 

[LynnJ]

Does anyone here have trouble getting their potassium deficiency symptoms to calm down, even with supplementation? I'm finding that too much potassium makes my stomach very upset, but that I need a large amount to combat the issues B12 causes.

My main problems are a fast heart-rate, shortness of breath, chest pain, and pain/tension in my upper back and by my ribs. I also get a little bit of painless twitching in my legs. Sometimes I get so frustrated I take a day off of B12, which is a bad idea; the symptoms I'm taking B12 for come back with a bang.

When it comes to potassium supplements (I'm taking potassium citrate because it doesn't irritate my bladder), I can only seem to take around 400mg at a time. Otherwise I get sick.

The chest/back ache is really taxing. I'm debating starting to take my potassium with Taurine and magnesium based on what I've read here. Food-wise I'm trying to drink milk/orange juice, eat bananas, etc.

One thing I'm confused about is that based on my research, some websites say potassium can negatively affect the absorption of B12. I keep coming across vague statements like the following one:

"Medicines like potassium supplements or acid-reducing drugs prevent absorption of vitamin B12 in some people."

Can anyone shed some light on this?

 

[Sparrowhawk]

Does anyone here have trouble getting their potassium deficiency symptoms to calm down, even with supplementation? I'm finding that too much potassium makes my stomach very upset, but that I need a large amount to combat the issues B12 causes.

I can't address the last question, but if pill form of potassium is not working for you, there are liquid versions like Angstrom Minerals (on Amazon). I rely more on their chromium and zinc, but have the potassium as an occasional backup as needed. I've even used it topically to give my stomach a break.

 

[LynnJ]

Thanks, I'll check it out. I have a bladder disease, interstitial cystitis, so potassium citrate is generally the only form I should be taking. I tried potassium chloride before I knew any better. Major mistake.

Does anyone take potassium and B12 at the same time? I don't, based on what I'm reading online about absorption, but...