Low WBC High EBV Lyme Positive

[sscobalt93]

@sscobalt93 , you mention elevated liver enzymes, sweats, etc. You've likely been exposed to Borreila, although you do not appear positive for it using the CDC's 2T metric. But I don't place too much store in that 2T tool anyway. Your band 23 is interesting, and who says you haven't a strain not on their map? You know, there are ticks out there pumped with strains like G39/40 or N40, and they might not conform to the CDC's protocol as politely and regularly as B31. For instance, did you know strain N40 might not be susceptable to the C6 Peptide test? And then there's strain 49736 that's a mutant strain, possibly human engineered. And that's just strains. You could talk species and it gets even messier. More dangerous too. B miyamotoi anyone? Or anyone of the other 34 Borrelia species?

But those elevated liver enzymes...the sweats...Have you ever been checked for babesia? Not that babesia tests are very good, because there not. If you test positive for antibodies, though, or better still, nail one of the parasites in a microscope...Well, babesia can be nasty being related to malaria and all. And depending on where you live, more than half of the ticks are laden with multiple co-infections.

So, if you do have Lyme - or even if you don't but you're sure you've been tick-bitten - well, you may want to check to see if you've babesia.

I never said anything about sweats. I said sweating has been the most beneficial for my start to recovery

 

[duncan]

What? No sweats?!

Well, then! I guess I can pack it in, grab a beer, and call it a night. My job here is done...

I'd still consider having a look see about babesia. Elevated liver enzymes and tick bites sometimes sway me that way.

 

[sscobalt93]

Here is something interesting I have noticed, I feel better when I eat beef or lamb, but chicken doesn't make me feel good. I have the A1298C mutation. Meaning lower BH4. High purine foods are believed to increase BH4 levels. I ate some beef today and felt ok, but I ate chicken for dinner and I am feeling a little depressed. I am going to expirement with this a little bit. I can't too much until payday, but on payday I am going to buy more lamb/beef/fish and no chicken and see if that does anything. BH4 is needed for ammonia detox. This is all very interesting stuff, I get a thrill when I piece something together(possibly). I will keep you all updated and see what happens.

 

[sscobalt93]

What? No sweats?!

Well, then! I guess I can pack it in, grab a beer, and call it a night. My job here is done...

I'd still consider having a look see about babesia. Elevated liver enzymes and tick bites sometimes sway me that way.

Haha its fine. The thing is my liver enzymes were elevated after I did a 2 week fast(1 week green juice, 1 week water fast) my god the detox on that was painful. I woke up in the middle of the night with aching legs as if I had just got done doing heavy heavy squats like i used to do. It was so painful. It was a spiritual experience that's for sure. I wont do it again though. I kept most of my muscle, ketosis is interesing. Especially fasting ketosis. I should have mentioned this but it didn't come to mind. My liver enzymes were high when I first got sick in 2011. I thought I was going to die back then.

I was so brain fogged I would literally just stare at a wall. I was working grave yard shifts at a gas station. It was so quiet in there too. No customers from 1 am to 5 am. No music, just silence. Silence is so 'loud' it made my situation worse. I only slept for 4 hours tops. Sometimes they would have me work from 10pm-6am then have to be back at 3pm-10pm then the next day was an overnight. I could barely eat. I was also so constipated I didn't go for 3 weeks straight. I was xrayed and told I was backed up from top to bottom. I asked for a colonic and was told they dont do that at the hospital. The worst pain in my life. I felt so TOXIC. Worst part about that situation is I could barley walk and my dad wouldn't take me to the hospital I had to drive myself.

Now that I rethink that part of my life I used to get night sweats during that time. I would wake up in a pool of sweat shaking feeling like I was going to die at any minute. Before that time I was unable to sweat. Things have improved a lot since then, but I am not where I should be by any means. I do think its fascinating how much out bodies can endure though. Not that I particularly like to deal with it

 

[Mary]

I have also noticed that my intolerance to meat has improved greatly(with the addition to betaine HCl and digestive enzymes). I do feel better after eating red meat. Makes me wonder if I have been iron deficient as well. I do limit my meat consumption though to 1 serving per day. I will get my protein from beans as well.

I am wondering if your previous brain fog after eating meat was actually due to gallbladder and liver problems arising from low stomach acid. Meat is hard to digest without sufficient stomach acid. Many if not most people with CFS are low in stomach acid. Years ago I had a terrible time if I ate a meal high in fat, or fried foods, or even meat - it never sat well with me. So if low stomach acid is a problem for you, it makes sense that mentally carbs are what appeal to you because they are easier to digest - it doesn't mean they're better for you however.

I used to have a rather toxic liver (in large part due to chemical exposure from a job), and the toxicity caused spaciness and fatigue - I had to do a liver detox. It also affected my gallbladder. After the liver detox I started taking HCL (very important!) especially with high protein meals. I also started taking milk thistle and my digestion overall has been much better ever since - it's been some 12 years now. Most doctors don't check for low stomach acid or toxic liver problems, unfortunately. My chiropractor who does muscle testing helped me sort out these digestive issues - I would have been so much worse off without him. He saved my gallbladder as well as got my liver functioning properly.

 

[sscobalt93]

@Mary I take around 8-10 caps of betaine hcl when I eat meat along with 4 digestive enzyme caps. I just started milk thistle before bed and I am getting better sleep. My gallbladder according to western medicine was functioning properly(had the HIDA scan where they pump medication into you and watch your gallbladder function). Ive done a liver flush before and did release 'stones' but not that many at all. I am taking Sunflower Lecithin to produce more bile and to help the liver aswell.

How much milk thistle are you taking? I'm considering taking 900 mg

 

[Mary]

@sscobalt93 - that sounds like a healthy dose of hcl (!) as well as the digestive enzymes.

Remember, it was some 12 or 13 years ago that my liver was having so much trouble. I don't remember how much milk thistle I took then. My liver is so much better now - e.g., one glass of wine used to make me sick for an entire day and 2 glasses would make me sick for 2 to 3 days - and it's no longer a problem for me. At one point my digestion was so screwed up from my toxic liver I couldn't eat before noon. In any event, right now I'm taking a milk thistle combination from Swanson's - I take one cap a day, has 175 mg. milk thistle, 85 mg. dandelion, 60 mg. black radish root, 60 mg. burdock root, 60 mg. ginger root and 30 mg. parsley leaf. I still take HCL too (though not as much as you).

My gallbladder was inflamed back then too. No western doc found the problem though. But my digestion was off, I had pain in my right side, felt very full - too full - after eating, like the food was just sitting there. The chiropractor did his muscle testing and gave me AF Betafood by Standard Process - it helps bile flow, it's a great product, it helped me so much and eventually I learned about HCL etc.

The liver detox I did was different than a liver flush. The detox was over a period of a month. It was kind of rough, I got very tired, felt like crap (but I had felt like crap before starting it), but afterwards, my liver was so much better. And again, the chiropractor helped me with this, helping to identify the problem, giving me a couple of Standard Process products to take.

BTW, my white cell count has been low ever since I started crashing (PEM) in 1998. It was 3.2 at one time, though I think is usually around 3.4 or 3.5. And the doctors just shrug.

 

[sscobalt93]

@Mary Have you have your iron levels tested? What about Copper levels? Zinc? These can all cause low WBC. Also vegan diets can cause low WBC(i am starting to believe that's my reason for low WBC or it could be a chronic infection :/). I am only doing the betaine that high because I have yet to feel the burn in my stomach from them. But I do not want to go any higher. I do not want to risk acidosis. I may cut back to 7 or 8 per meal. Today was the first time i have taken 10 and didn't notice that much benefit over the 7-8 I have been taking.

For my liver right now i am going to take lots of milk thistle and lecithin. I do have some artichoke i may throw in the mix as well. My liver does feel swollen most of the time. It sucks. But I try not to freak out about it because I am now trying to treat it.

I am going to up my antioxidants(Vitamin C in particular) and try to see if that will help my WBC. I am thinking I was low in Iron although my RBC is just fine.

 

[Mary]

@sscobalt93 - actually I started taking copper several months ago after reading about how a copper deficiency can contribute to a low WBC. My copper levels were quite low on hair analysis which I know is not the most reliable testing. About 5 years ago I was told to take copper after Nutreval testing and I took it for awhile and then stopped. So I've restarted the copper but have not been retested for my WBC, but I think that will happen in September. I've been taking zinc for years, and maybe zinc alone contributed to low copper. I'm not vegan. I also started a low dose of iron around the same time as the copper. My iron levels were okay but quite low on hair analysis.

Also, for some reason, a low WBC is very common in people with CFS. Maybe it's like our low NK cell count - which is almost a biomarker for CFS. Definitely there are immune abnormalities in CFS. And of course the research has not been done so no one knows why.

One more thing which is very good for your liver and gallbladder is lemon juice. It's cleansing, it helps with digestion, it's really really good for the liver (and gallbladder) - add some to water and drink it a couple of times a day. Dandelion tea is also very good.

I know you're treating yourself with herbs etc., but are you taking any prescriptions or OTC meds? So many of these cause liver problems (especially Tylenol!)

One more thing you might consider is n-acetylcysteine - supposed to help protect the liver. This is what they give to people who OD on Tylenol. https://www.liverdoctor.com/n-acetyl-cysteine/

 

[sscobalt93]

@Mary - As much as I love lemon juice I can't tolerate it. It makes my brain fog worse. I know this means my liver is unable to handle it. Maybe if I go slow with it would be better but I usually down a whole lemon and maybe it's too strong. I might start with a teaspoon and go from there. As far as OTC med I stay FAR away from them. If I am in pain I just usually deal with it or go sit in the sauna which seems to help A LOT. Tylenol to me has no benefits to the body, it depletes glutathione and that's a no no for us people. Well anyone in general, that stuff should be taken off the market IMO. As far as the NAC goes my last homocysteine test was fairly high so I stay away from it. I have taken it in the past and it made me worse. It was prescribed by a doctor for my cannabis use in the past when I was younger. He told me it would take the cravings away. I just looked at him and said what cravings? Then he told me I was in denial(parents found out I was smoking pot as a teen and thought I was 'addicted'). I am long away from that stuff though, it's not beneficial for me. If there's no benefit it doesn't go inside me.

Some updated information. I went to my primary doc today and she completely dismissed my tests. Even the one with Lyme. She said she can't read the test, and doesn't plan on treating me. She's fired. I am getting a STD screening though to rule out any possible infections(I have not been a smart teen). Well I wanted to get tested because band 41 can mean syphilis. I am almost certain it will come back negative as I haven't had any obvious symptoms. PLus it's always smart to know.

She also completely dismissed my WBC saying that our WBC's go up and down. I told her yeah I understand that, but they just keep going down. Never up. She seemed to be aggravated with me. Never liked her much anyways.

Also I decided to try Methylfolate today. 250 mcg. I can seem to tolerate it, and I think this will be a good step in the right direction.

 

[Mary]

@sscobalt93 - too bad about your primary care doc, but unfortunately way too many are like her.

I've gotten very little help from mainstream doctors, but my chiropractor who does muscle testing has helped me a lot, plus all the information on this and other boards.

Good luck with everything - do you take methylcobalamin? It's good you're tolerating the small dose of methylfolate.

 

[sscobalt93]

@Mary no I am not. Everytime I do it causes issues. I may have been taking too much though. I am getting the Thorne B complex #12 and trying that out. It seems to be very balanced.

 

[sscobalt93]

So I just read that calcium may actually increase stomach acid in the long run, meaning less betaine HCL caps. I have been a little worried about using so many caps. I am going to decrease them as I do not want to get acidosisl I have been dairy free for years. I have a bottle of red mineral algae that I think I am going to try.

I got the information from here: http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=14078.0

 

[Tammy]

Mary Have you have your iron levels tested? What about Copper levels? Zinc? These can all cause low WBC

I don't know if I'm interpreting your answer right or not. Zinc is supposed to increase WBC.

 

[sscobalt93]

@Tammy - yes zinc and copper both are critical for white blood cell count. I was asking if those were tested. If they are low then they can contribute to low white blood cells. But you would most likely have issues with rbc as well. Well mainly with low copper. Copper deficiency can cause anemia. Anemia that can't be treated with iron/b vitamins could mean low copper levels

 

[sscobalt93]

So I went and got my std tests done. I'm pretty sure they are going to be fine. I never had obvious symptoms to them.

On to methylation. I decided to take 250mch of methyl folate and I had small amount of symptoms(slight confusio, brain fog) I then took 250 much of methyl b 12 and it "stabilized" me. I'm a little bit more talkative today as well. I am more calm as well. I'm hoping the throne research will be a big help for me. I believe I need the whole complex and not just methylfolate and b12. I know I need to watch niacin, but niacin is also useful to methylation so I'm not going to completely avoid it

 

[Tammy]

Well she called me without much concern just asking if I was tired. I told her yes I am always tired. She said I have test postitive for EBV. My charts are high over their range of 5.She said my Lyme tests were fine. So me not trusting the medical establishment I went and got my test results to say I am reactive to strains 41 and 23. Obvioulsy this means I have Lyme. No one however believes me.

I just came across a thread where a member had said that if you have EBV that it could cause a false positive to band 41? I have not researched this yet.............but there might be some kind of cross reaction between EBV and false positives in lyme testing.

 

[sscobalt93]

I just came across a thread where a member had said that if you have EBV that it could cause a false positive to band 41? I have not researched this yet.............but there might be some kind of cross reaction between EBV and false positives in lyme testing.

I read that as well. I may not have Lyme, but I have some type of infection. Band 23 IgM is pretty specific for lyme though. I will continue on Samento though just because it is an immune booster and with my WBC dropping it may be of some benefit.