Low energy, low mood? Phosphorous might be key (hypophosphotemia may be triggered by thiamine - refeeding syndrome)

[Mary]

@sb4 - I'm tagging you here, we discussed hypophosphatemia in a different thread. Did you ever try a supplement? I was actually a bit delighted when I read that Chris Armstrong believes we are in a state of starvation/sepsis, it can explain a lot about our need for various nutrients that healthy people don't have (see my first post above)

 

[Mary]

@YippeeKi YOW !! - your husband sounds like a sweetie, and the sherry doesn't sound too bad either! I hope you perk up soon

 

[godlovesatrier]

Wonder if it feeds into Ron's work in terms of the cellular transportation network not working properly in the blood plasma and therefore down regulating all the systems within the body, meaning they use up all of these nutrients and minerals quicker than they normally would depending on how sick someone is?

 

[godlovesatrier]

This is what I got today, doesn't vary too much from day to day to be honest, not sure what a good amount is?

 

[sb4]

@Mary I did try di sodium phosphate a week or 2 ago for with a meal, afterwards I noticed my heart pounding was worse than usual although I write in my log that I felt a bit better after it ended. Not sure if either are due to phosphate. I didn't try it again but I will probably retry it soon.

What is interesting is the recent links with O2 in the blood just not getting used. I used to experience this where I would need to take deep breathes but still I felt like I was lacking air, it is a different sensation to hyperventilation. Anyway I haven't experienced this in a couple of years however last night was day 2 on progesterone. I got up to pee and when I layed back down I was hit by this exact sensation that I hadn't had for years. I tried doing buteyko breathing but it didn't help, I tried mild hyperventilation but it didn't seem to help. I was breathing deeply but it felt like the room had barely any O2. Anyway it decreased after 20-30 mins and I managed to sleep.

I have stopped progesterone now (last time I tried I had messed up sleep after 1 day). I did a quick search for links between 2,3 BPG and estrogen and progesterone but didn't find anything. I should imagine there is something out there as someone else said 2,3 BPG increases in pregnancy.

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

Wonder if it feeds into Ron's work in terms of the cellular transportation network not working properly in the blood plasma and therefore down regulating all the systems within the body, meaning they use up all of these nutrients and minerals quicker than they normally would depending on how sick someone is?

I don't think so, altho admittedly I'm working on instinct here, not information or direct knowledge, or anything as useful and reliable as that .

'Down regulation', say in terms of GABAa receptors and benzos, means that the benzos, which utilize the same pathways as GABA, eventually cause the brain to assume that GABA is no longer required, because the body is filling that need with a benzodiazepine as opposed to endogenous GABA. The receptors slowly shrink to nothing, then disappear altogether. This is part of what causes tolerance withdrawal, and what makes genuine withdrawal so horrendous, since you no longer have any of the endogenous paraphenalia a 'normal' person utilizes to maintain a healthy balance between GABA and Glutamine.

Extensive down-regulation of the body's systems, meaning they're phasing out functionally for some reason, would eventually result in death, and it probably wouldn't take too long. And how a down-regulated system can use more nutrients than they normally would totally baffles me.

I'm probably misunderstanding something here, I thought I'd pose these questions and wait for someone more familiar with systemic down regulation to clarify this.

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

This is what I got today, doesn't vary too much from day to day to be honest, not sure what a good amount is?

Not sure, is this a blood test result?

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

@YippeeKi YOW !! - your husband sounds like a sweetie, and the sherry doesn't sound too bad either! I hope you perk up soon

He absolutely is, when he's not driving me nuts. He's the original Absent Minded Professor, with exceptionally well-developed 'husband hearing', which translates to 'doesn;t hear anything he doesnt want to'.

But he's dear, and I love him .

 

[Mary]

I did try di sodium phosphate a week or 2 ago for with a meal, afterwards I noticed my heart pounding was worse than usual although I write in my log that I felt a bit better after it ended.

I've only taken monosodium phosphate - I wonder if the disodium phosphate would affect me differently. I would try a smaller dose and see what happens, or try monosodium phosphate. Or get some foods high in phosphate and see how you do. Three glasses of kefir helped me. I don't take that every day - it was a one off, to see if phosphate would help my severe fatigue, and it did.

2 tablespoons of hemp seed seems to be enough? https://www.nutritionvalue.org/Seeds,_hulled,_hemp_seed_nutritional_value.html

3 tablespoons is 495mg, so my rough math says 2 might work!

These hemp seeds look like a good source of phosphate too!

What is interesting is the recent links with O2 in the blood just not getting used.

I wonder if the oxygen is having trouble getting into the cells. Not to derail my own thread here, but I've been reading about the Budwig Protocol for cancer (cottage cheese and flaxseed oil blended with a blender), supposed to help cell membranes and increase oxygenation of cells. It sounds bizarre but when I read the logic behind it, it was quite interesting. I read about it in this book: Outsmart Your Cancer - it as extremely interesting and I plan to do an experiment with it.

 

[pamojja]

It was the attached blood test, ...
so I maked an additional "lysierte EDTA vollblutanalyse" blood work (in a trustfull lab) to be sure.

Thanks for sharing your whole blood mineral results. It's interresting for me to see, because I've done some of those repeatetly in an other small German lab, which has much tighter reference ranges (which might be because of a much smaller customer base). Seeing your normal ranges, I can relax a bid

element    unit   rangeA       rangeB   resultA  resultB

Magnesium  mg/l    30-40        34-36     33.5     31
Kalium     mg/l  1386-1950    1750-1850   1304    1813
Zink       mg/l   4.5-7.5      7.3-12.7    4.2    7.7
Kupfer     mg/l   0.7-1.39    0.65-1.65   0.66    1.3

 

[bread.]

Wonder if it feeds into Ron's work in terms of the cellular transportation network not working properly in the blood plasma and therefore down regulating all the systems within the body, meaning they use up all of these nutrients and minerals quicker than they normally would depending on how sick someone is?

where did he say that? ty!

 

[PatJ]

Definitely more if it turns out that I still can;t tolerate even small amounts of alcohol. Am hoping that maybe that's changed

Have you ever seen this post in the Miyarisan thread? It's about how taking the Clostridium Butyricum probiotic helped to improve alcohol tolerance for @Asklipia.

 

[PatJ]

I used to experience this where I would need to take deep breathes but still I felt like I was lacking air, it is a different sensation to hyperventilation.

That might be Air Hunger/Dyspnea where you feel like you can't get a satisfying breath of air, no matter how deeply you breath.

Budwig Protocol for cancer ... it as extremely interesting and I plan to do an experiment with it.

Adding to your self-threadjack with some hopefully useful information...

I've tried the Budwig Diet several times. The first two times eventually left me feeling utterly exhausted. I gave it a third try after learning that I need even more magnesium while on the diet. I think that the extra calcium in the Bugwig Diet was throwing off my calcium/magnesium balance which led to the exhaustion. Increasing my magnesium supplement made all the difference.

For benefits, the first time I noticed somewhat reduced anhedonia, improved mood, better color vision, and an increased desire to do things. The third time I didn't notice those effects. I also noticed that each time I started the diet the Budwig FOCC mixture tasted _really_ good initially. It was like my body loved it and craved more. Within a few weeks that effect wore off and I also started having more oily skin. Maybe I was oversaturated with flax oil.

There's a lot of misinformation about the diet on the web. Here are couple of very good Budwig Diet sites:
* www.healingcancernaturally.com/index-budwig.html - contains detailed information based on Dr. Budwig's books, very extensive and well researched FAQ
* www.budwig-diet.co.uk

A note for trying the diet: I've tried just yogurt and it didn't blend well enough. Store bought cottage cheese is usually loaded with additives. I tried home-made quick cottage cheese (using vinegar) but it didn't blend well with the flax oil.

Well strained greek yogurt, or quark (which is what Dr. Budwig used) works best. DIY quark is easy. I can give you a simple recipe if you'd like to try it.

 

[Cipher]

@Hd-x @pamojja What's the name of the laboratory that performed your whole blood mineral analysis?

 

[pamojja]

What's the name of the laboratory that performed your whole blood mineral analysis?

Mine is https://www.labor-bayer.de. I do however get the blood drawn in a nearby lab in Austria, and they send it there. Mainly doing it to monitor my severe Mg-deficiency (which doesn't show in serum; and against I do receive Mg-sulfate IVs from my GP). And since a single Mg whole blood costs only € 2.33, I always do K, Zn, Cu, Fe, and Lithium along with it, all in the equal price range each.

Other elements by the same lab, like Mn, Se, or even the toxic like Pb or Mercury in whole blood would be much more expensive at about € 30.- each. Did however yearly inexpensive hair-tissue-mineral-analysis for those.

 

[Mary]

SEVERAL POSTS RELATING TO THE BUDWIG PROTOCOL (COTTAGE CHEESE/FLAXSEED OIL) HAVE BEEN MOVED OR COPIED TO THIS THREAD: Budwig Protocol - any benefit for ME/CFS? ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION OF THE BUDWIG PROTOCOL SHOULD BE CONTINUED IN THAT THREAD

 

[Hd-x]

It's interresting for me to see, because I've done some of those repeatetly in an other small German lab, which has much tighter reference ranges

With the Mg exception, yours minerals seem to look fine. I´ve seen those ref range differences also betwen labs like IMD, Inflamatio and so on, still wasnt able to figure out whats the reason for it?

@Hd-x @pamojja What's the name of the laboratory that performed your whole blood mineral analys

It was IMD: https://www.imd-berlin.de
they also offer immune defect diagnostic tests:
https://www.imd-berlin.de/fachinformationen/diagnostik/themengebiete/immundefekte.html
https://www.imd-berlin.de/fachbereiche/immunologie.html
https://www.imd-berlin.de/nc/leistungsverzeichnis.html

 

[pamojja]

I´ve seen those ref range differences also betwen labs like IMD, Inflamatio and so on, still wasnt able to figure out whats the reason for it?

Usually reference ranges are calculated by each lab periodically, by assuming the middle 95% as 'normal' and the lowest 2.5% as well as the highest 2.5% abnormal. So with different populations and time-periods such ranges differ. With proceeding decline in mineral-content of the foods eaten, also 'normal' ranges will go down steadily. An other reason why to be sceptical of 'normal' ranges is, that usually the majority of those actually getting tested do because of already having serious health-problems. And therefore 95% of them are everything else than normal=healthy.

An other approach rarely used is by looking at the totallity of research associating lab-values to total mortality. Like for example functional-medicine practitioner or labtestanalyzer.com does.

A third approach is increasing the sale of block-buster drugs, like statins or BP lowering drugs, by lowering the normal range that low, that it appears almost everyone needs to take them (without consideration to total mortality, but a elusively relative risk-reduction in non-mortal events).

 

[Hd-x]

@pamojja
Thank you for the explanation about different ref ranges, this makes sense.

And since a single Mg whole blood costs only € 2.33, I always do K, Zn, Cu, Fe, and Lithium along with it, all in the equal price range each.

This is really fair pricing and affordable (at IMD it costs 65€ for the minerals like shown and you cant select any single minerals, you need to buy the whole bunch)
Did Bayer lab have a price chart for all their services online?

 

[pamojja]

Did Bayer lab have a price chart for all their services online?

No, I had to inquire by phone through the very helpful person at the local lab (directly to me they wouldn't tell on the phone). I noted the prices of some labs I've been interested in on one of their labs-request forms. That's already 7 years ago, since which time they didn't raise prices at all. With some time to find it again, I could give some more price examples.

An other German lab I inquired about in Munich was very helpful by sending me on request the whole price list of their labs as PDF https://www.lab4more.com/, though I never actually got to use them. In average about the same prices as Bayer.