Low dose Naltrexone

[Sparrowhawk]

A lot of us who have taken LDN for a considerable length of time are also taking other things that would affect immune/viral and other tests, so we can't separate out the response from LDN.

Sushi

Hah, I should have considered that, good response, makes sense. Ah well. ;-)

 

[*GG*]

Bumping this good question from heapsreal ... And along the same lines, anyone seen specific lowering of viral antibody or any other labs along those lines? I read some of the thread and people who respond get lower pain, andmore energy which is great. Was curious if immune modulation by LDN also helped get rid of the viruses.

Also what is the exact name of the Yahoo group on LDN?

Thanks.

There are more than 1 group on LDN in Yahoo. FYI:

This might be the most active 1?:

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/lowdosenaltrexone/

you can search for the group(s) you might want to sign up for:

http://dir.groups.yahoo.com/dir/

GG

 

[Sparrowhawk]

Thanks ggingues I signed up for that one.

 

[*GG*]

This brochure can be handy, has some info on it also.

GG

 

[Dufresne]

Low-Dose Naltrexone and Adrenal Function

About a month ago, I started taking .5mg of low-dose naltrexone (LDN), once every 3 days. After several weeks, my adrenals started to feel much weaker and it almost felt like they (and my kidneys) were sore or inflammed. Since I have stage 7 adrenal fatigue, my cortisol and DHEA levels are already extremely low. I can't afford to take anything that makes the adrenals weaker, but I really wanted to give the LDN a try. I noticed that I was sleeping better while on it (sometimes it would interfere with my sleep on the day I took it, but then I would sleep better on subsequent nights). I also seemed to just feel a little better on it -- at least until the adrenals started crashing.

I've been trying to find information about the effects of LDN on the adrenals and whether others with CFS have had this reaction to it. I saw one comment that said LDN causes the body to release cortisol. But there was another comment that said cortisol production may go down because LDN stimulates the body to make endorphins from the same biochemicals that are used to make ACTH, which signals the pituitary to stimulate the adrenals to make cortisol. So I'm confused as to what kind of effect the LDN is having on the adrenals.

Unfortunately, I can't just take some cortisol, Cortef or DHEA to boost my adrenal function since I have a paradoxical reaction to those and they actually suppress my adrenal function. If anyone has any thoughts as to what may be happening here with the adrenals or what I can do or take to alleviate this side effect, I would be very grateful to hear it.

Thank you

Hi CBS64. Could it be that endorphins are causing vasodilation and this is what’s straining your adrenals? I’ve good reason to believe this is what’s happened to me when experimenting with both opiates and LDN. It seems whenever I mess with endorphins I feel better in the short run and worse after. I’m quite sure this is not just an endorphin hangover. All my problems as the result of such experiments are related to circulation and what I believe to be low norepinephrine. Here’s a study indicating that morphine causes vasodilation.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2679101/

 

[Dufresne]

Hi CBS64. Could it be that endorphins are causing vasodilation and this is what’s straining your adrenals? I’ve good reason to believe this is what’s happened to me when experimenting with both opiates and LDN. It seems whenever I mess with endorphins I feel better in the short run and worse after. I’m quite sure this is not just an endorphin hangover. All my problems as the result of such experiments are related to circulation and what I believe to be low norepinephrine. Here’s a study indicating that morphine causes vasodilation.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2679101/

The most recent article on Health Rising reporting on Dr DeMeirleir’s opinion of LDN might corroborate my suspicion above somewhat. Of course he’s keen on it, as I am for most, but the mechanism might be hazardous for some. Here’s an excerpt.

Those opiate receptors don’t just affect pain, however; the opiate receptors in the body and skin also help to control blood flow–a major issue in ME/CFS. Dr. De Meirleir didn’t say exactly what LDN did, but he implied it might be able to help smooth out the blood flow problems, perhaps by reducing the dilation of the large blood vessels and/or increasing the dilation of the small ones.

Read more: Low Dose Naltrexone Becoming ‘Standard Treatment’ for Chronic Fatigue Syndrome and Fibromyalgia http://www.cortjohnson.org/blog/2013/08/28/mecfs-doc-asserts-low-dose-naltrexone-becoming-standard-treatment-chronic-fatigue-syndrome-fibromyalgia/

 

[Marlène]

Low-Dose Naltrexone and Adrenal Function

About a month ago, I started taking .5mg of low-dose naltrexone (LDN), once every 3 days. After several weeks, my adrenals started to feel much weaker and it almost felt like they (and my kidneys) were sore or inflammed. Since I have stage 7 adrenal fatigue, my cortisol and DHEA levels are already extremely low. I can't afford to take anything that makes the adrenals weaker, but I really wanted to give the LDN a try. I noticed that I was sleeping better while on it (sometimes it would interfere with my sleep on the day I took it, but then I would sleep better on subsequent nights). I also seemed to just feel a little better on it -- at least until the adrenals started crashing.

I've been trying to find information about the effects of LDN on the adrenals and whether others with CFS have had this reaction to it. I saw one comment that said LDN causes the body to release cortisol. But there was another comment that said cortisol production may go down because LDN stimulates the body to make endorphins from the same biochemicals that are used to make ACTH, which signals the pituitary to stimulate the adrenals to make cortisol. So I'm confused as to what kind of effect the LDN is having on the adrenals.

Unfortunately, I can't just take some cortisol, Cortef or DHEA to boost my adrenal function since I have a paradoxical reaction to those and they actually suppress my adrenal function. If anyone has any thoughts as to what may be happening here with the adrenals or what I can do or take to alleviate this side effect, I would be very grateful to hear it.

Thank you

It has to do with your brain waves and your adrenals indeed. If you are in stage 7, LDN is not indicated.

Let's say a doctor flashes a light in your eyes to see if your pupils still dilate, it means your brains react (waves) and your cortisol will rise.
If your adrenals are severely exhausted, your brain waves will be flat and your pupils will not dilate/react the same way.

LDN has a direct link on your adrenals and brain waves. Therefore in severe exhaustion, it will be too demanding. You'll have to treat the exhaustion in another way first. You could see a neural doctor like I did. My doctor injected me weekly with procaine and in the end with another substance. After three months i was able to leave my bed and climb the stairs once a day. After 2 years I started LDN.

 

[CBS64]

It has to do with your brain waves and your adrenals indeed. If you are in stage 7, LDN is not indicated.

Let's say a doctor flashes a light in your eyes to see if your pupils still dilate, it means your brains react (waves) and your cortisol will rise.
If your adrenals are severely exhausted, your brain waves will be flat and your pupils will not dilate/react the same way.

LDN has a direct link on your adrenals and brain waves. Therefore in severe exhaustion, it will be too demanding. You'll have to treat the exhaustion in another way first. You could see a neural doctor like I did. My doctor injected me weekly with procaine and in the end with another substance. After three months i was able to leave my bed and climb the stairs once a day. After 2 years I started LDN.

Thanks so much for your reply. Can you direct me to a web page or link that talks about the LDN adrenal connection? I came across someone's post on another website recently that said you're not supposed to take adrenal glandular (or other adrenal support supplements) at the same time as LDN or it will cause the adrenals to crash. I was taking an adrenal glandular when I tried the LDN, so I wonder if that's why my adrenals crashed.

I got a concussion last year and developed post-concussion syndrome (PCS) and wanted to try LDN again because it is supposed to help with that. I wondered if I skipped the adrenal glandular, I might be able to tolerate it, but I can't find anything else on line that talks about not taking adrenal support while taking LDN. Have you heard anything about this.

 

[Marlène]

Thanks so much for your reply. Can you direct me to a web page or link that talks about the LDN adrenal connection? I came across someone's post on another website recently that said you're not supposed to take adrenal glandular (or other adrenal support supplements) at the same time as LDN or it will cause the adrenals to crash. I was taking an adrenal glandular when I tried the LDN, so I wonder if that's why my adrenals crashed.

I got a concussion last year and developed post-concussion syndrome (PCS) and wanted to try LDN again because it is supposed to help with that. I wondered if I skipped the adrenal glandular, I might be able to tolerate it, but I can't find anything else on line that talks about not taking adrenal support while taking LDN. Have you heard anything about this.

I'm sorry, I cannot help with that right now. It's my practitioner who explained me this. He first tested my brain waves with a EEG and flash light before deciding to give me LDN or not. If I stumble upon a link, I'll let you know.

 

[CBS64]

I'm sorry, I cannot help with that right now. It's my practitioner who explained me this. He first tested my brain waves with a EEG and flash light before deciding to give me LDN or not. If I stumble upon a link, I'll let you know.

Just to be clear, you are saying that your doctor told you that people with severe adrenal fatigue shouldn't take LDN? May I ask who your doctor is and where s/he is located? (you can email me privately if you'd rather not post this) I may want to contact their office to see about getting more information for my doctor, as he is unaware of the LDN-adrenal link. We are deciding whether I should try the LDN again for my post-concussion syndrome and I don't want my adrenals to crash again.

Interestingly, for many months after the concussion my pupils wouldn't dilate when I was in a dark room. I'm not sure they're totally back to normal yet. So I wonder if this is another contraindication for taking LDN.

May I ask what the procaine was supposed to help with? I thought it was for pain, not fatigue.

Thanks again

 

[Marlène]

I sent you a mail with more details.

Procaine did help me with fatigue indeed. It even improved permanently my body temperature after 2 sessions only. I turned from a reptile into a human being again.

My neural doctor treated me weekly with high doses but it worked. Because I did not use any medicine nor supplement at that time, there is no other explanation since I was completely bedridden for 14 months already.

It was actually a story of a guy on this forum who recovered with neural therapy that gave me the idea to look for a doctor. I was very lucky to find one just around the corner.

 

[seansee]

I'm going to give it a try. does anyone buy it online?

 

[Yin]

I sent you a mail with more details.

Procaine did help me with fatigue indeed. It even improved permanently my body temperature after 2 sessions only. I turned from a reptile into a human being again.

My neural doctor treated me weekly with high doses but it worked. Because I did not use any medicine nor supplement at that time, there is no other explanation since I was completely bedridden for 14 months already.

It was actually a story of a guy on this forum who recovered with neural therapy that gave me the idea to look for a doctor. I was very lucky to find one just around the corner.

Marlene, Could you send me the same reply you sent CBS64? I have felt this year like I had no ability to handle any stress -- not producing cortisol. Starting LDN this month, I feel like I handle stress even less well.

I don't know what to do instead. I have no idea how to find a "neural doctor" in the states; I'm not sure what specialty that would be here. Yin

 

[DMD]

Hello Marlene,
Can you PLEASE send me the same info with your neural doctor? I have been in awful shape this year. Terrible adrenal fatigue with blood pressure in the 90/55 range... I just received some LDN today and now am very hesitant to start it as I don't want to crash my adrenals even more. I'd really appreciate it. Thank you so much.
Dawn

 

[Marlène]

An interesting docu about LDN
http://www.tv2.no/play/nyheter/unknown-medicine-gives-hope-to-thousands-of-patients-717059.html

 

[outdamnspot]

Ugh, I ordered a box of Naltrexone from a European pharmacy online last week, and now see that it's on the 'restricted' list in Australia (importing permit required).

Anyone in Australia successfully purchased it online?

 

[heapsreal]

Ugh, I ordered a box of Naltrexone from a European pharmacy online last week, and now see that it's on the 'restricted' list in Australia (importing permit required).

Anyone in Australia successfully purchased it online?

good chance it will get through anyway. I didnt think it would require anymore then a prescription but even if u dont and its picked up by customs all u will more then likely get its a warning letter saying not to do it again and that the item will be destroyed, but generally with low volumes of things for personal use its just let through unless its some type of narcotic, benzo or anabolic steroid to which they jump on.

We even need a permit to import kava or its confiscated and destroyed even though you can buy it as an over priced supplement here or can bring in personal supply with your baggage from somewhere like fiji, go figure. I ordered a bottle of kava tablets from iherb a few years ago for $10, the same strength and quantity would have cost me $80-$90, it was confiscated as i didnt have a permit but nothing else came of it. Most people look at it as a hit and miss for some things i guess, as i mentioned before as long as its not a big bag of valium or steroids then its not a drama.

 

[outdamnspot]

I don't have a script, unfortunately. I am on the waiting list to see a psychiatrist and it is going to take a few months, and my doctor didn't want to give it to me off-label.

Ugh, I spent $80, so really hope it wasn't a waste. The thing is .. International Anti-Aging Systems sells Low-Dose Naltrexone 4.5mg capsules, so I wonder if that would be okay by customs, since at that dose it might not fall under the drug/alcohol treatment classification.

 

[heapsreal]

@outdamnspot I have got quite a few things from IAS with no issues though havent ordered ldn. You should be ok.

 

[outdamnspot]

ah, just to be clear, the original order I made was for Naltrexone (50mg) tablets x 30 from inhousepharmacy-europe.

If it doesn't get through, then perhaps I'll try IAS.

Also, if anyone in Australia has a leftover/spare supply they would want to part with -- I am just looking for 2-3 tablets to try (which should last a while at LDN doses anyway) before I bring the idea up to a psychiatrist, I would really appreciate it. PM me.