lithium experiences

[Lala]

This doctor claims lithium is out of the body in about 3 days if completely stopped. https://www.healthtap.com/user_questions/674093

 

[Little Bluestem]

How much LO do you take?

I take two 130 mg capsules of LO per day. Each capsule contains 4.8 mg. of elemental lithium.

If you quit taking the LO, you may need to add something else that has a similar calming effect on the nervous system and plays well with your minocycline.

 

[heapsreal]

So is one suppose to feel the calming effects of lithium orotate within the first few hours after taking it?

I took 5mg this morning, i cant say i had any feelable results but then i dont think im an anxious type person so this could be why. My main reason for using though is to increase neutrophil numbers.

cheers!!

 

[Little Bluestem]

I didn't notice the effect when I started taking it, but rather when I would skip it for a day. About the 2nd or 3rd time I noticed that I felt 'edgier' on the days that I did not take it. I think this is due to the effect that it has on my up-regulated nervous system. If you do not have that problem, it may not make you feel any different.

 

[roxie60]

Just took first dose of LO a few minutes ago. I had read an article that lithium is a transporter of B12 in our methylation process and gave it to my Dr last visit (August). I stopped by Dr office today and nurse asked me if Dr had discussed taking Lithium Ornotate (?) and I said no. She told me Dr wanted me to try it so I bought a bottle, it is 10mg (Lithium as orotate). Will report any improvements. My expectation if it is beneficial is improvement in mental processing and possibly mood. Any other expectations I should have?

I had requested my serum lithium be tested when I recently tested Cortisol, ACTH etc. It was extremely low, one more 100th of a point and it would have been non discernible.

 

[roxie60]

I tried my first dose of lithium orotate last night before going to bed, hoping it would help with sleep. Instead, I was half-awake all night long. I wonder if the pesticide absorbed in the brain and nerves causes so much oxidative stress that I don't react normally to antioxidants of any kind. They tend to add to the neurotoxicity. I was so hoping this would be a help- funny how after all these years you still keep on trying, even when there's a drawer full of supplements you can't take. I'm glad to hear that this has helped others. Please keep us up to date on your experiences!

Equally interesting that so many times we have extreme or opposite reactions then are normally expected. Sure would like to understand that phenomenon.

 

[roxie60]

rydra_wong which genes lower BH4? (Rs#'s please and thx)

Ok, this is not as good a reference as my original references, but here is one showing protection of the brain from glutamate toxicity by estrogen.

http://www.springerlink.com/content/h88p5450j0384nmm/

If you want to look for other studies (and there are other ones, better ones), the keywords to look for are "NMDA receptors" and you are looking for things that don't depolarize them. There is a magnesium ion protecting the NMDA receptors, protecting them from a calcium influx which kills brain cells. If you have a magnesium deficiency you will be prone to this. You can get a magnesium deficiency even if you supplement plenty of magnesium if you
(1) eat a high protein diet since the breakdown product of protein is ammonia and it takes magnesium and BH4 to eliminate ammonia via the urea cycle. So the ammonia will bind up the magnesium and outstrip your supply.
(2) If you have genetic issues creating BH4 (as I do) ammonia can build up and it will depolarize the magnesium on the NMDA receptors (actually strip it off) and leave the receptors wide open to damage.

There may be other things that strip that magnesium away -- I did not mean to imply by making a list that I studied the whole issue -- just my problem regarding it.

But estrogen fixes it. I take DHEA to make my own estrogen and it does the job. (I mean you don't need a prescription to ward off glutamate toxicity).

P.S. I take 1g. of magnesium/day and I still almost died of glutamate toxicity before I went on DHEA. It is because I have 3 genes lowering BH4 (so genetically you may need more than magnesium but it is a good start).

 

[heapsreal]

i have been taking 5 mg twice a day, cant say i have noticed anything from it positive or negative, but i am taking it in the hope of increasing my neutrophil count, so i will keep taking it until my next lot of blood work in november. My sinusitis has eased up so maybe it has done something to neutrophils????

 

[undcvr]

Just curious what brand people are using...? Some of the dosage labeling is confusing.

I wud like to mention somethings about Lithium that many of you might not be aware of regarding Lithium dosing. The most common brand of Lithium that I see out there is NCI's Lithium Orotate 120mg. This does not mean that there is 120mg of elemental Lithium in it at all, in fact there is only 5 mg of Lithium in every 120mg tab. I called the company to check on this and did a call as recently as this year. You see Orotic acid is a very big molecule and the Lithium ion is not.

However if you buy your Lithium orotate powder from beyond a century, as of the date of this posting it is about 9mg of elemental Lithium for each 100mg. This is not wrong either. The orotic acid is quite big and can take a few different charges on it so depending on how the reaction goes to manufacture the product it can take one, two or even 3 Lithium ions on each Orotic acid molecule.

Dosing is about 5-10mg of Lithium a day, i recently raised my dose up to 15mg but there are issues ...

The concept of the Lithium orotate molecule being a more effective, safer and more bioavailable product is not a myth, it is the real deal. For those of you who study chemistry, Lithium orotate and in fact all of the orotate compounds have what you call a high dissociation constant, ie, it does not break up into its individual ions readily. In the human body, you Want this property. What this means is that it stays a molecule in the blood stream until the orotic delivers it to specific orotic acid receptive sites before the Lithium ion is released. The Lithium compounds that you get from prescriptions like carbonate and citrate have low dissociation constants. They let go of their Lithium ion too readily and into the blood stream even before it has reached organs. There are some minerals you want as ions in your body and some that you don't. Lithium is definitely one of those that you do not.

Lithium is prescribed for bipolar and manic depression but what is it also useful for is recovering from long term emotional/physical/psychological abuse/damage which is what alot of pple with cfs are actually dealing with. A kind of post traumatic stress syndrome if you will.

Similiar to prescribed Lithium, Lithium orotate at higher doses can cause fatigue and this is mainly becos it acts on the thyroid. In some people it actually causes them to make thyroid antibodies (which u can test for) which shows that the body is attacking its own thyroid. You can get around this by taking systemic enzymes. Systemic enzymes actually let the immune system work better by reducing overall inflammation and self-attack. It also moves the the immune system more into the TH1 arm which is what we all need.U can actually avoid the need of oral thyroid hormones in most cases.There are real studies done on this.

Iodine itself is not enuf to support the thyroid and it is really just the icing on the cake mineral. You need to keep your intake of Zinc high too as it is Zinc that triggers the release of thyroid releasing hormone in the brain even before the thryroid releases thryroid stimulating hormone. Also Selenium is required to release TSH. The most toxic form of Selenium is Sodium SelenIte so try to avoid that. The safest form is Sodium SelenAte. Se is also a very good Mercury (Hg) neutralizer and is needed to make the GSH enzyme so it is helpful in several ways.

If you kept these minerals and the systemic enzymes high you can actually take Lithium at higher doses without its side effects happening. Systemic enzymes also somewhat protect kidney function another concern of pple taking Lithium.

If it works for you, Lithium Orotate is really very very safe and easy on the body. I take about 15-20mg of elemental Lithium a day and whenever I do a blood test it only shows up as 0.1 As a reference 1.0 is the therapeutical level for Lithium in the carbonate, citrate form. There are very few studies on Lithium Orotate, the only thing you can go by is how you FEEL when you are on it and for some pple that 'feeling' can be quite dramatic. It works very similarly to an antidepressant so give it at least 2 weeks to a month to work.

 

[roxie60]

My LO is 10mg, period, not 120, wonder how they formulate it, if different than the 'Doctors" and others. Mine is from Ortho and is available from/thru Amazon 8.50 cheaper and no shipping charge. My doctor charged me 30.30. sad since she knows i just lost my career and need to watch my money. oh well, will just buy onine next time.

undcvr do you have a link that discusses the enzymes? I got the impression the doctor was having another patient try LO so if yhere is a cofactor I want her to know as well. I feel as though I'm a lab rat so I realize this is not an area most doctors know a lot about, I know she does study a lot and is trying to help. At least I think so.

So many folks have said LO worked almost immediately so thanks for mentioning it could take up to a month. My brand is Ortho Molecular which seems to be a bit different than the other brands but maybe they just dont label it the same. It appears to be 'pure' lithium as orotate which seems different than other packaging I saw (usually 120 mg of which only 5mg is Lithium??).

 

[roxie60]

I just looked up a video about systemic enzymes (other than its a radio programs that appears to be a marketing front for supplements - that is my cynical side coming out) I believe it was called Brain Power - it this what yyou are refering to when you mention systemic enzymes? Also would a multi vitamin be sufficient for the Zinc and Selenium (I have to ck and see if this in in the multivit)?

There is a small amount of Selenium and Zinc in my MultiVit

 

[roxie60]

I feel like I'm going down the black hole of supplements....need to have a whole shelf in cabinet for patially used supplements. I dont know who to believe anymore. I want to know what is broken/not working in me and how to fix. I know there is a pathway to better health but I just feel I have been traveling side roads randomly.

 

[undcvr]

What role does Wobenzym® play in the treatment of thyroid disease. Autoimmune hypothyroidism (Hashimoto’s) – the most common cause of hypothyroidism - is a condition that can be somewhat difficult to successfully treat due to the chronic inflammation taking place in that condition. Even after the patient’s hormone levels have been increased back to normal with prescription thyroid replacement, we still see many clinical signs of hypothyroidism.
For instance, even after thyroid hormone replacement, patients can still have elevated cholesterol and triglycerides. However, when patient were given 5 Wobenzym tablets, 3 times a day – in addition to their thyroid replacement – their cholesterol and triglycerides decreased. The patients that were only given thyroid replacement still had elevated cholesterol and triglycerides.
We also noted that taking Wobenzym resulted in a reduction of autoimmune antibodies that attack the thyroid – the anti-TG and anti-TPO antibodies. Since the thyroid is no longer under attack from the immune system, it is able to resume making thyroid hormones that way that it should. As a result, there was also a reduction of TSH levels. As a result, patients that received Wobenzym as part of their therapy were able to lower their dosage of thyroid medication after 3 months. In some cases, the thyroid medication could be completely discontinued.
Based on what we now know, I would say that this is possible because of Wobenzym’s beneficial effect on the hypothalamic-pituitary-thyroid axis, - its effect on the thyroid tissue itself – and its effect on the immune system - the elimination of autoimmune destruction of the thyroid.
The pro-inflammatory cytokines that we see in both autoimmune disease and in systemic inflammation have a very detrimental effect on thyroid function on so many levels. If we keep in mind that the first word in the phrase “autoimmune thyroid disease” is “autoimmune” we will have a better understanding of why the immunomodulating properties of Wobenzym® N are so effective in treating autoimmune hypothyroidism.

http://www.systemicenzymesupport.org/faq/hormones.htm

Please note: I do not endorse Wonbezym in fact I despise both it and Garden of Life. The benefits of systemic enzymes are Not exclusive to Wonbezym but are available from all such enzymes at times even at 1/4 of the price of Wonbezym

Lithium Orotate is really very very cheap, you have been conned by your doctor. Very sad.

 

[roxie60]

Very frustrating when they dont allow you to see the label / contents. Although I have used other PE products so I trust them but I would still like to see what I am buying. Maybe I can find the detailed info on another site.

http://www.thenaturalonline.com/pur...ie-caps.html?gclid=COWQzcb8w7kCFZBaMgod2EIARg

 

[roxie60]

Thanks for the info undrcvr. My doctor tries very hard to find the options that will give patients that are allergic it seems to everything so most of her products are usually of a purer variety (less fillers). I am taking the Ortho Molecular brand and its label indicates 10 mg of Lithium (as orotate) so I still wonder even though people may pay less for other brands are they getting other fillers. I think the formulation/contents is important in determining the value and price paid. I need to verify with Ortho Molecular if I am really getting a full 10 mg of lithium or is it just a percentage, if a percntage then I not getting a good value.

 

[roxie60]

Here is some info on systemic enzymes for those in research mode, I have not got thru entire article

http://systemicenzymes.net/

ok now I have read it all and the last paragraph got my attention. It seems to be implying something about absorption but is not clear or does it give a conclusion - like the drs tudying in the states have old info regarding enzyme absorption - or - are they saying the best way to absorb these enzymes is not via the GI tract??? Paragraph below:

One note: many in the States have learned in school that enzymes are too big a protein to be absorbed through the gut. The pioneering research done in the US by Dr. Max Wolf (MD & PhD x7) at Columbia University in the 40’s through the 70’s has not made it to the awareness of most doctors. There are currently over 200 peer reviewed research articles dealing with the absorption, utilization and therapeutic action of orally administered systemic enzymes. A search through Pub Med using the key words: serrapeptase, papain, bromelain, trypsin, chymo trypsin, nattokinase and systemic enzyme will yield some of the extensive work. Systemic enzymes now have a 4 decade plus history of widespread medical use in central Europe and Japan.


Wow, just clicked on the Buy button for this site, mane this stuff must be gold, seems expensive
http://docsprefer.com/zymessence.aspx

 

[roxie60]

undcvr are you taking LO and systemic enzymes, if so what brand(s) do you find effective?

 

[undcvr]

Very frustrating when they dont allow you to see the label / contents. Although I have used other PE products so I trust them but I would still like to see what I am buying. Maybe I can find the detailed info on another site.

http://www.thenaturalonline.com/pur...ie-caps.html?gclid=COWQzcb8w7kCFZBaMgod2EIARg

http://www.gardenoflife.com/Product...nitySupport/WobenzymN/tabid/1900/Default.aspx

Click on rite side of page under supplement facts

I take Solgar's Pancreatin as my source of systemic enzymes. Each tab is equivalent to about 3-4 Wonbezym tabs. My LO is from NCI. You can take any brand of digestive enzymes you like, they just have to be enteric-coated so that your stomach acid does not get to them first. If you do take enzymes that are not enteric-coated you wud need to take a couple of Tums first to neutralise your stomach acid

 

[roxie60]

http://www.gardenoflife.com/Product...nitySupport/WobenzymN/tabid/1900/Default.aspx

Click on rite side of page under supplement facts

I take Solgar's Pancreatin as my source of systemic enzymes. Each tab is equivalent to about 3-4 Wonbezym tabs. My LO is from NCI. You can take any brand of digestive enzymes you like, they just have to be enteric-coated so that your stomach acid does not get to them first. If you do take enzymes that are not enteric-coated you wud need to take a couple of Tums first to neutralise your stomach acid

Quadruple strength?

 

[roxie60]

What do you consider a higher dose of lithium (I dont need more fatigue!). I am taking 10 mg

Similiar to prescribed Lithium, Lithium orotate at higher doses can cause fatigue and this is mainly becos it acts on the thyroid. In some people it actually causes them to make thyroid antibodies (which u can test for) which shows that the body is attacking its own thyroid. You can get around this by taking systemic enzymes. Systemic enzymes actually let the immune system work better by reducing overall inflammation and self-attack. It also moves the the immune system more into the TH1 arm which is what we all need.U can actually avoid the need of oral thyroid hormones in most cases.There are real studies done on this.