slayadragon
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lithium experiences
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Hi all
I also would like to try Lithium. What would you think about this product. It says it is organically bounded Lithium.http://www.gaines.com/store/AmerBiol/AMB30610info.html
or should we take orotate form? best wishes
I also would like to try Lithium. What would you think about this product. It says it is organically bounded Lithium.http://www.gaines.com/store/AmerBiol/AMB30610info.html
or should we take orotate form? best wishes
Wayne
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50 mcg Lithium Orotate
Hi Cindi,
I just checked the link, and noticed the product you're considering is 50 mcg. and is not the "orotate" form, which may or may not be a problem. For perspective, 50 mcg is 1% of 5 mg, which is the standard dose in most lithium orotate products sold over the counter. For more perspective, the normal dose of 5 mg. is barely 1% of the 350 mg. the prescription lithium carbonate dose.
A friend of mine started out taking the 50 mcg. dose, and received a huge benefit. When he could no longer find it locally, he went to the 5 mg. size, but found it was too much for him to handle. So he takes individual capsules and splits them up, and does well with it. I would think the 5 mg size would be more economical. For some people, the 50 mcg size might be more optimal and convenient.
Good luck weith your lithium experimentation. It appears to be an inexpensive supplement that has the potential to offer significant benefits for some people. I'm very happy to have found it and incorporated it into my daily health regimen.
Best, Wayne
Hi Cindi,
I just checked the link, and noticed the product you're considering is 50 mcg. and is not the "orotate" form, which may or may not be a problem. For perspective, 50 mcg is 1% of 5 mg, which is the standard dose in most lithium orotate products sold over the counter. For more perspective, the normal dose of 5 mg. is barely 1% of the 350 mg. the prescription lithium carbonate dose.
A friend of mine started out taking the 50 mcg. dose, and received a huge benefit. When he could no longer find it locally, he went to the 5 mg. size, but found it was too much for him to handle. So he takes individual capsules and splits them up, and does well with it. I would think the 5 mg size would be more economical. For some people, the 50 mcg size might be more optimal and convenient.
Good luck weith your lithium experimentation. It appears to be an inexpensive supplement that has the potential to offer significant benefits for some people. I'm very happy to have found it and incorporated it into my daily health regimen.
Best, Wayne
Wayne
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Lithium Orotate Testimonial and Information
I found the following testimonial and information to be quite good; thought I'd share it on this thread. I copied it from this website:
Life Link's Monolith (Formely Lithium Orotate) 135mg 100Tabs
I'm going to make a lithium order, but have not yet decided whether to go with the above online company or not.
Best, Wayne
.........................................................
My favorite supplement
By Linda Evans from Matthews, NC on September 30, 2009
Comments:
Lithium orotate works really well to help me stay calm and relaxed. I usually only take it at night and it helps me sleep. Other members of my family use it as well and take as many as they need during stressful times. I know that at one time I was extra stressed due to a family emergency and I took 3 or 4 at a time to calm me within minutes. My parents are in their 80's and they also love this product. My mother's elderly friend started using it and said now she can sleep all night for the first time in 20 years. My son's friend used it to help him quit a 3 pack a day cigarette habit. He said it helped take the edge off the cravings. Also, I don't get depressed when I take this supplement.
Pros:
decent price, helps with calmness, focus, and good sleep. Seems to relieve anxiety and stress.
Cons:
Sometimes makes me sleepy if I take it during the day.
Lithium orotate is a mineral salt that is normally found in small amounts in all living things. Each molecule of lithium orotate consists of a molecule of orotic acid in which one of the hydrogen atoms is replaced by a lithium atom.
Orotate (orotic acid) is a biochemical substance made by all living cells. It is a necessary raw material for making the genetic material: RNA and DNA.12
Some evidence suggests that lithium may be an essential trace mineral.1
Lithium orotate was introduced as a supplement by Dr. Hans Nieper, the innovative German physician, who used it to treat depression, headaches, migraine, epilepsy, and alcoholism. Nieper considered orotates to be superior to carbonates, chlorides, sulfates, and other negative-charged ions as bioavailability enhancers for minerals like lithium.
Other lithium salts have been used for more than a century to treat mania. During the first half of the 20th Century, however, lithium therapy fell out of fashion and was not rediscovered until 1949.2 Since then, it has become one of the mainstays in the treatment of bipolar disorder (the current euphemism for manic-depression).2
During the past ten years a number of lab studies have kindled interest in the use of lithium for treating Alzheimers and other neurodegenerative diseases.3,4
What we cant tell you In the U.S. and some other industrialized countries, government agencies like the U.S. Food and Drug Administration have adopted censorship as a method for intensifying their control over supplement users and their suppliers. Thus, FDA regulations prohibit us from telling you that any of our products are effective as medical treatments, even if they are, in fact, effective.
Accordingly, we will limit our discussion of lithium orotate to a brief summary of relevant research, and let you draw your own conclusions about what medical conditions it may be effective in treating.
Lithium and neurodegenerative diseases In 1997 a groundbreaking paper appeared in the Journal of Biological Chemistry, reporting that lithium interferes with a key process in the brain that damages nerve cells in Alzheimers disease. The researchers stated that these findings could be exploited to develop a novel intervention for Alzheimers disease.5
More recent studies in cell culture and lab animals have added weight to this prediction and found additional ways in which lithium protects nerve cells and stimulates the repair of damaged nerve tissue.3
In a 2004 review of the subject, D.M. Chuang of the (U.S.) National Institutes of Health wrote: The neuroprotective and neurotrophic actions of lithium have profound clinical implications. In addition to its present use in bipolar patients, lithium could be used to treat acute brain injuries such as stroke and chronic progressive neurodegenerative diseases.6 Examples of such diseases are Alzheimers, Huntingtons, ALS, Parkinsons, and other less well-known conditions.
Other possible applications of lithium orotate Several other applications for lithium supplements have come to light recently:
treating disruptive behavior disorders in children and adolscents7 preventing episodic impulsive aggressiveness8 protecting the brain from damage by alcohol9 treating kleptomania10 preventing symptoms of Fragile X Syndrome (FXS).11 (FXS is a genetic flaw that causes certain forms of autism, learning disabilities, anxiety disorders, and mental retardation.) Furthermore, orotates (even those without lithium) have other useful properties:
protecting the heart from arrhythmias12 reducing heart-attack damage12 stimulating production of red and white blood cells12 lowering mental stress12 eliminating nerve-damaging deposits of lipofuscin and ceroid pigments.13 Dosages and toxicity Lithium carbonate and lithium citrate (the salts of lithium that have been traditionally used to treat bipolar disorder) have a poor toxicity profile they show toxic effects at dosages only a little higher than the medically effective dose. Bipolar patients, who usually use high doses of lithium carbonate (typically above 900 mg/day) must therefore receive professional guidance and testing for side effects.
In contrast, the therapeutic dose of lithium orotate is much lower than that of the other lithium salts. The explanation normally given for this is that the orotate form of lithium passes through the blood brain barrier far more easily than do the chloride or citrate forms; therefore much smaller doses of the orotate can be used (150 mg/day or less), resulting in lower, nontoxic concentrations of lithium throughout rest of the body.14
Although the lally-gaggers who control the worlds clinical research programs have yet to conduct a clinical trial of lithium as a prevention or treatment for Alzheimers or for any other neurodegenerative disorder, we neednt wait for them to get their act together. Lithium orotate is available as a nutritional supplement.
I found the following testimonial and information to be quite good; thought I'd share it on this thread. I copied it from this website:
Life Link's Monolith (Formely Lithium Orotate) 135mg 100Tabs
I'm going to make a lithium order, but have not yet decided whether to go with the above online company or not.
Best, Wayne
.........................................................
My favorite supplement
By Linda Evans from Matthews, NC on September 30, 2009
Comments:
Lithium orotate works really well to help me stay calm and relaxed. I usually only take it at night and it helps me sleep. Other members of my family use it as well and take as many as they need during stressful times. I know that at one time I was extra stressed due to a family emergency and I took 3 or 4 at a time to calm me within minutes. My parents are in their 80's and they also love this product. My mother's elderly friend started using it and said now she can sleep all night for the first time in 20 years. My son's friend used it to help him quit a 3 pack a day cigarette habit. He said it helped take the edge off the cravings. Also, I don't get depressed when I take this supplement.
Pros:
decent price, helps with calmness, focus, and good sleep. Seems to relieve anxiety and stress.
Cons:
Sometimes makes me sleepy if I take it during the day.
Lithium orotate is a mineral salt that is normally found in small amounts in all living things. Each molecule of lithium orotate consists of a molecule of orotic acid in which one of the hydrogen atoms is replaced by a lithium atom.
Orotate (orotic acid) is a biochemical substance made by all living cells. It is a necessary raw material for making the genetic material: RNA and DNA.12
Some evidence suggests that lithium may be an essential trace mineral.1
Lithium orotate was introduced as a supplement by Dr. Hans Nieper, the innovative German physician, who used it to treat depression, headaches, migraine, epilepsy, and alcoholism. Nieper considered orotates to be superior to carbonates, chlorides, sulfates, and other negative-charged ions as bioavailability enhancers for minerals like lithium.
Other lithium salts have been used for more than a century to treat mania. During the first half of the 20th Century, however, lithium therapy fell out of fashion and was not rediscovered until 1949.2 Since then, it has become one of the mainstays in the treatment of bipolar disorder (the current euphemism for manic-depression).2
During the past ten years a number of lab studies have kindled interest in the use of lithium for treating Alzheimers and other neurodegenerative diseases.3,4
What we cant tell you In the U.S. and some other industrialized countries, government agencies like the U.S. Food and Drug Administration have adopted censorship as a method for intensifying their control over supplement users and their suppliers. Thus, FDA regulations prohibit us from telling you that any of our products are effective as medical treatments, even if they are, in fact, effective.
Accordingly, we will limit our discussion of lithium orotate to a brief summary of relevant research, and let you draw your own conclusions about what medical conditions it may be effective in treating.
Lithium and neurodegenerative diseases In 1997 a groundbreaking paper appeared in the Journal of Biological Chemistry, reporting that lithium interferes with a key process in the brain that damages nerve cells in Alzheimers disease. The researchers stated that these findings could be exploited to develop a novel intervention for Alzheimers disease.5
More recent studies in cell culture and lab animals have added weight to this prediction and found additional ways in which lithium protects nerve cells and stimulates the repair of damaged nerve tissue.3
In a 2004 review of the subject, D.M. Chuang of the (U.S.) National Institutes of Health wrote: The neuroprotective and neurotrophic actions of lithium have profound clinical implications. In addition to its present use in bipolar patients, lithium could be used to treat acute brain injuries such as stroke and chronic progressive neurodegenerative diseases.6 Examples of such diseases are Alzheimers, Huntingtons, ALS, Parkinsons, and other less well-known conditions.
Other possible applications of lithium orotate Several other applications for lithium supplements have come to light recently:
treating disruptive behavior disorders in children and adolscents7 preventing episodic impulsive aggressiveness8 protecting the brain from damage by alcohol9 treating kleptomania10 preventing symptoms of Fragile X Syndrome (FXS).11 (FXS is a genetic flaw that causes certain forms of autism, learning disabilities, anxiety disorders, and mental retardation.) Furthermore, orotates (even those without lithium) have other useful properties:
protecting the heart from arrhythmias12 reducing heart-attack damage12 stimulating production of red and white blood cells12 lowering mental stress12 eliminating nerve-damaging deposits of lipofuscin and ceroid pigments.13 Dosages and toxicity Lithium carbonate and lithium citrate (the salts of lithium that have been traditionally used to treat bipolar disorder) have a poor toxicity profile they show toxic effects at dosages only a little higher than the medically effective dose. Bipolar patients, who usually use high doses of lithium carbonate (typically above 900 mg/day) must therefore receive professional guidance and testing for side effects.
In contrast, the therapeutic dose of lithium orotate is much lower than that of the other lithium salts. The explanation normally given for this is that the orotate form of lithium passes through the blood brain barrier far more easily than do the chloride or citrate forms; therefore much smaller doses of the orotate can be used (150 mg/day or less), resulting in lower, nontoxic concentrations of lithium throughout rest of the body.14
Although the lally-gaggers who control the worlds clinical research programs have yet to conduct a clinical trial of lithium as a prevention or treatment for Alzheimers or for any other neurodegenerative disorder, we neednt wait for them to get their act together. Lithium orotate is available as a nutritional supplement.
Dreambirdie
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Hi Wayne--
The brand of lithium you posted about is 135 mg, in contrast to Cindi's which is only 50 mcg.
Don't you think it's better to start with that 50 mcg baby dose?
I have NO experience with lithium, so am interest in other people's experiences with the various doses.
The brand of lithium you posted about is 135 mg, in contrast to Cindi's which is only 50 mcg.
Don't you think it's better to start with that 50 mcg baby dose?
I have NO experience with lithium, so am interest in other people's experiences with the various doses.
Wayne
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Best Lithium Orotate
Hi Dreambirdie,
Your question brings up something that is rather odd about the various lithium orotate products available. They state their dosages differently. For example, I ordered the following product:
Best Lithium Orotate
If you go down just a bit on this page, it lists the potency at 5 mg., but states this in parentheses just below it:
Lithium (from 125 mg of lithium orotate)
So, some products state the amount of lithium orotate, but the actual lithium is a much smaller amount, in this case 5 mg. divided by 125 mg., or only about 4%.
The product I was looking at in my previous post stated in has 135 mg. lithium orotate, but I noticed it only contained 4.8 mg of what they called "essential lithium", or something like that (I just tried to re-check that but can't find where I came across it).
So, it's a bit confusing. I decided to go with the "Best Lithium Orotate" because it had 200 tablets of 5 mg. of lithium. This is about twice the value of the original product I posted which was only 100 tablets of 4.8 mg lithium. Is that just about as clear as mud?
Anyway, hope this helps. :Retro smile:
Wayne
Hi Dreambirdie,
Your question brings up something that is rather odd about the various lithium orotate products available. They state their dosages differently. For example, I ordered the following product:
Best Lithium Orotate
If you go down just a bit on this page, it lists the potency at 5 mg., but states this in parentheses just below it:
Lithium (from 125 mg of lithium orotate)
So, some products state the amount of lithium orotate, but the actual lithium is a much smaller amount, in this case 5 mg. divided by 125 mg., or only about 4%.
The product I was looking at in my previous post stated in has 135 mg. lithium orotate, but I noticed it only contained 4.8 mg of what they called "essential lithium", or something like that (I just tried to re-check that but can't find where I came across it).
So, it's a bit confusing. I decided to go with the "Best Lithium Orotate" because it had 200 tablets of 5 mg. of lithium. This is about twice the value of the original product I posted which was only 100 tablets of 4.8 mg lithium. Is that just about as clear as mud?
Anyway, hope this helps. :Retro smile:
Wayne
Wayne
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Lithium Orotate Dosages
Hi again Dreambirdie,
Your point about starting out slowly is well taken. A 50 mcg dose (which some people can notice an immediate difference), is only 1% of the dosage of what I just ordered. I felt comfortable starting out with the 5mg dose because I had already experimented with drinking some "lithium water", which Ashland is famous for. People and tourists go to the local "Lithia" park, and fill up jugs of it for its reputed therapeutic value. It tastes terrible, so I'm happy to have the tablets.
Hi again Dreambirdie,
Your point about starting out slowly is well taken. A 50 mcg dose (which some people can notice an immediate difference), is only 1% of the dosage of what I just ordered. I felt comfortable starting out with the 5mg dose because I had already experimented with drinking some "lithium water", which Ashland is famous for. People and tourists go to the local "Lithia" park, and fill up jugs of it for its reputed therapeutic value. It tastes terrible, so I'm happy to have the tablets.
Wayne
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A quick story:
When I bought my first bottle of lithium orotate at a local store (twice as expensive as ordering online), there was a young man in his twenties in the store who overheard our conversation about lithium orotate, and offered his own experience. His best friend in his teenage years developed schizophrenia, and had become exceptionally disabled from it despite the numerous medications that have been tried over the years. Once he started on the lithium orotate (just recently), his condition improved dramatically quite quickly. But it was 10-15 years after initial onset, so he's not back to normal by any means.
Just a remarkable example however of how a simple, relatively safe mineral supplement that protects the brain from toxicity (as opposed to changing brain biochemistry) can have almost miraculous results for some. Also, it's a popular product within the Lyme community, because of it's ability to reduce much of the severe neurological stress associated with Lyme. This may be the main modus operendi for me, as I deal with major Lyme associated neurological/brain issues.
When I bought my first bottle of lithium orotate at a local store (twice as expensive as ordering online), there was a young man in his twenties in the store who overheard our conversation about lithium orotate, and offered his own experience. His best friend in his teenage years developed schizophrenia, and had become exceptionally disabled from it despite the numerous medications that have been tried over the years. Once he started on the lithium orotate (just recently), his condition improved dramatically quite quickly. But it was 10-15 years after initial onset, so he's not back to normal by any means.
Just a remarkable example however of how a simple, relatively safe mineral supplement that protects the brain from toxicity (as opposed to changing brain biochemistry) can have almost miraculous results for some. Also, it's a popular product within the Lyme community, because of it's ability to reduce much of the severe neurological stress associated with Lyme. This may be the main modus operendi for me, as I deal with major Lyme associated neurological/brain issues.
anne_likes_red
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I had already read this thread when a recent hair mineral test reported lithium very low. I decided to try the 5mg dose and brand Wayne linked to, though I get mine from iherb.
I noticed a very positive change within a couple of hours of the first dose. It's calming, and seems to allow a part of the brain to return to a normal state (sorry that's the best I can describe it) - and without any sedative effect in my case.
It's one of those supplements, like magnesium, I can't imagine going without now.
Thanks to all who've shared on this thread
PS Wayne your explanation of how it protects the brain from toxicity rings true for me.
I noticed a very positive change within a couple of hours of the first dose. It's calming, and seems to allow a part of the brain to return to a normal state (sorry that's the best I can describe it) - and without any sedative effect in my case.
It's one of those supplements, like magnesium, I can't imagine going without now.
Thanks to all who've shared on this thread
PS Wayne your explanation of how it protects the brain from toxicity rings true for me.
Dreambirdie
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Thank you anne_likes_red. I like hearing people's experiences with this supp., and I'm glad yours was positive.
PokerPlayer
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A doc I saw said I should take 10mg worth of elemental lithium orotate at night. I have been doing it for close to a year now, I don't think I actually notice much at all from it. I have not had racing/delusional thoughts since I started it, but that may be because of a number of things.
I am now actually thinking about upping the dosage to 20mg per day, just out of curiosity.
I am now actually thinking about upping the dosage to 20mg per day, just out of curiosity.
Wayne
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Hi All,
Anne, thanks much for sharing your experience. After reading it, I realized that generally the worst time of day for my "racey" brain is in the early mornings, which often keeps me from sleeping as much as I need to.
After reading about PokerPlayer'ss intent to experiment with a higher dosage, I decided to take two tablets upon rising this morning. It's been quite noticeable how much calmer my brain is than it normally is at this time of day. It's still early in this experimentation, but it feels quite promising at this time.
Best, Wayne
3CFIDS@ourhouse
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I just ordered some lithium orotate and wondered how those of you taking it are doing now? Are you finding night-time dosing to help with sleep? Day-time to help with overstimulation? Any tips?
Thank you!
Thank you!
That's interesting, maybe you weren't low in it and didn't need it. I tested very low for lithium. I didn't know I suffered from low-level depression for years until I took lithium orotate and it went away, and after only a short time taking it. I had gotten so used to the depression that I didn't realize how easy it was to feel good and be happy! The other things I was taking may also have helped but I noticed the change when I starting on the lithium orotate.
PokerPlayer
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I took 20mg lithium orotate in a day and I was feeling really in la la land. I went on my normal walk in the woods and halfway through I just sat down and did nothing for 30 minutes. Just felt like doing nothing.... These things take a while to work, so I would have to give it more time before I judged, but I really don't feel like dealing with the "out of it" side effect of an increased dosage right now.
Sticking with 10mg at night at present.
Sticking with 10mg at night at present.
Dreambirdie
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The one I odered is American Biologics Lithium Arginate. I got it because it's a very low dose 2.5 mg, yielding 50 mcg elemental lithium.
Does anyone else have expereince with it? (I am exhauseted today, screw the spelling errors)
Does anyone else have expereince with it? (I am exhauseted today, screw the spelling errors)
Wayne
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I've been experimenting with taking lithium at different times of the day. I tried the morning, and it worked well, because mornings are when I usually experience "shooting impulses" through my brain, and noticed the lithium did tend to calm them down.
Then I thought perhaps if I took some at night, it would prevent me from having such a racy brain in the morning. That seem to also work well, so I went with that for a while. I then realized my body handled the 10 mg well at both the night and the morning, and thought I'd try doing it at both times (total 20 mg/day). That now seems to be working best of all.
I'm keeping alert for any kind of excess lithium (orotate) manifestations (not sure what they might be however), but I'm feeling pretty comfortable with my current dosing. I'm also feeling quite grateful the agitation in my brain has diminished considerably since starting on lithium several weeks ago.
That said, it hasn't gone away completely, but I don't get discouraged by days when I still deal with it; just grateful it's less than it's been in the past.
Best, Wayne
Then I thought perhaps if I took some at night, it would prevent me from having such a racy brain in the morning. That seem to also work well, so I went with that for a while. I then realized my body handled the 10 mg well at both the night and the morning, and thought I'd try doing it at both times (total 20 mg/day). That now seems to be working best of all.
I'm keeping alert for any kind of excess lithium (orotate) manifestations (not sure what they might be however), but I'm feeling pretty comfortable with my current dosing. I'm also feeling quite grateful the agitation in my brain has diminished considerably since starting on lithium several weeks ago.
That said, it hasn't gone away completely, but I don't get discouraged by days when I still deal with it; just grateful it's less than it's been in the past.
Best, Wayne
Dreambirdie
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Thanks Wayne.
I tried the lithium arginate both last night and this morning at 2.5 mg each time. I did not notice much help in the agitation dept.
I tried the lithium arginate both last night and this morning at 2.5 mg each time. I did not notice much help in the agitation dept.
3CFIDS@ourhouse
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I tried my first dose of lithium orotate last night before going to bed, hoping it would help with sleep. Instead, I was half-awake all night long. I wonder if the pesticide absorbed in the brain and nerves causes so much oxidative stress that I don't react normally to antioxidants of any kind. They tend to add to the neurotoxicity. I was so hoping this would be a help- funny how after all these years you still keep on trying, even when there's a drawer full of supplements you can't take. I'm glad to hear that this has helped others. Please keep us up to date on your experiences!
I wonder if the pesticide absorbed in the brain and nerves causes so much oxidative stress that I don't react normally to antioxidants of any kind. They tend to add to the neurotoxicity. I was so hoping this would be a help- funny how after all these years you still keep on trying, even when there's a drawer full of supplements you can't take. I'm glad to hear that this has helped others. Please keep us up to date on your experiences!