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Lecithin for sinus & eye irritation

ebethc

Senior Member
Messages
1,901
there's a lot of particulate matter in the air today (pollution, allergens). I woke up w a massive sinus headache and irritated eyes. after taking some sunflower lecithin (NOW brand, 1.6g) I got some relief (not 100% but much better)..

Does anyone understand why lecithin helps? (I'm guessing it helps mucus membranes)
What's the max does of lecithin?
What are some other supplements or foods that can help w this problem ?

BTW - I've had comprehensive allergy tests and came up NEGATIVE FOR EVERYTHING... My allergist said that she thinks that I'm just hypersensitive to any particulate matter ... whether it's pollution or dust or pollen, it's going to take me down.. it's not that I'm having an immune reaction to a particular substance, any particle will irritate my sinuses/throat/lungs/eyes..

I've taken quercetin in the past, but it's not 100% helpful, and has sulfur which I've avoiding right now. I like the lecithin better anyway because quercetin can be stimulating for me.

thanks
 

Critterina

Senior Member
Messages
1,238
Location
Arizona, USA
Allergy tests only test IgE, and there are lots of other mediators of "sensitivity" and "intolerance" - two words that mean you feel miserable, but your allergy tests are negative. Sorry, I don't know why lecithin works, but I think I read something about that recently regarding a 4R gut rebuilding program. Try searching there.
 

UM MAN

Senior Member
Messages
106
Location
Florida
Lecithin contains choline. Choline will upregulate the BHMT pathway, thus making Methionine available.
Maybe you are low on SAM, and cannot use HNMT to clear histamine.

Does chewable Vitamin C help???
 

Wayne

Senior Member
Messages
4,268
Location
Ashland, Oregon
The whites of our eyes are actually part of the same tough membrane which surrounds our brains and spinal cords called the dura mater (tough mother). So in essense, the eyes are very directly connected to the brain. Since CFS is to a very large degree characterized by brain dysfunction, I can easily see how particulates in the eye can cause major neurological and brain discomforts of all kinds.
 

ebethc

Senior Member
Messages
1,901
Allergy tests only test IgE, and there are lots of other mediators of "sensitivity" and "intolerance" - two words that mean you feel miserable, but your allergy tests are negative. Sorry, I don't know why lecithin works, but I think I read something about that recently regarding a 4R gut rebuilding program. Try searching there.

@Critterina - yes, the scope of allergy testing does not include sensitivities & intolerances, but it's definitely the most thorough that I've had & when she said that my problem is more about reacting to any PARTICLE (which create irritation in sinuses, throat, lungs) that really resonated... Allergy medicines have never really worked for me.. Herbal stuff, yes, but OTC stuff from Walgreens, no. So, I feel like her explanation sync'ed w that conundrum.. I didn't see anything in the 4R program re lecithin, but I'll keep looking . thanks.
 

ebethc

Senior Member
Messages
1,901
Lecithin contains choline. Choline will upregulate the BHMT pathway, thus making Methionine available.
Maybe you are low on SAM, and cannot use HNMT to clear histamine.

Does chewable Vitamin C help???

@UM MAN - interesting! I am definitely trying to stimulate the BHMT pathway since I am +/+ for BHMT 02 and 08.

I think I'm low in SAM; I've taken SAM-e in the past, and it works at first (more clear-headed, less joint pain) then it poops out.. Do you think this is because I can't tolerate the methyls in SAM-e?

What is HMNT? I don't know much about Histamine Intolerance, and have been wondering if this is part of my problem... How would I know if I have a histamine problem? could particles trigger a non-allergic histamine reaction? Or is the nature of any histamine reaction allergic? thanks.
 

ebethc

Senior Member
Messages
1,901
The whites of our eyes are actually part of the same tough membrane which surrounds our brains and spinal cords called the dura mater (tough mother). So in essense, the eyes are very directly connected to the brain. Since CFS is to a very large degree characterized by brain dysfunction, I can easily see how particulates in the eye can cause major neurological and brain discomforts of all kinds.

@Wayne - that's really interesting - I've never heard of "dura mater" ... thanks
 

Gondwanaland

Senior Member
Messages
5,091
How is your dietary fat intake? Good fats help with eyes and mucosa lubrication.

Lessons from the biophysics of interfaces: lung surfactant and tear fluid
The purpose of this review is to provide insight into the biophysical properties and functions of tear fluid and lung surfactant--two similar fluids covering the epithelium of two distinctive organs.

Both fluids form a layer-like structure that essentially comprise of an aqueous layer next to the epithelium and an anterior lipid layer at the air-water interface. The aqueous layers contain soluble proteins and metabolites, and they are responsible for the host defence system and nutrition of the organ.

However, many proteins also interact with the lipid layer and are important for the surface-active function of the fluid film.

The lipid layer of lung surfactant comprises mainly of phospholipids, especially phosphatidylcholines, and only small amounts of non-polar lipids, mainly cholesterol.

In contrast, tear fluid lipid layer comprises of a mixture of polar and non-polar lipids.

However, the relative proportion and the spectrum of different polar and non-polar lipids seem to be more extensive in tear fluid than in lung surfactant.

The differing lipid compositions generate distinctive lipid layer structures. Despite the structural differences, these lipid layers decrease the surface tension of the air-water interface.

The structure of the tear film lipid layer also minimises the evaporation of the tear fluid. In lung surfactant surface activity is crucial for the function of the organ, as the lipid layer prevents the collapse of the lung alveoli during the compression-expansion cycle of breathing. Similarly the tear film experiences a compression-expansion cycle during blinking.

The dynamics of this cycle have been studied to a lesser extent and are not as clear as those of lung surfactant. The common structure and properties suggest a similar behaviour under rapid compression-expansion for both fluids.

izzy
 

UM MAN

Senior Member
Messages
106
Location
Florida
@UM MAN - interesting! I am definitely trying to stimulate the BHMT pathway since I am +/+ for BHMT 02 and 08.

I think I'm low in SAM; I've taken SAM-e in the past, and it works at first (more clear-headed, less joint pain) then it poops out.. Do you think this is because I can't tolerate the methyls in SAM-e?

What is HMNT? I don't know much about Histamine Intolerance, and have been wondering if this is part of my problem... How would I know if I have a histamine problem? could particles trigger a non-allergic histamine reaction? Or is the nature of any histamine reaction allergic? thanks.
Does cinnamon make you worse????
How much SAM-e did you take? I only need 200mg ED.
Well, yes, if you are not clearing histamine, then any added mild IgE reaction would be multiplied.
Have you tried Molybdenum and Manganese? TMG?
HMNT uses SAM to clear histamines on a cellular level, helping deplete your SAM.

http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/85/5/1185.full
 

ebethc

Senior Member
Messages
1,901
Does cinnamon make you worse????
How much SAM-e did you take? I only need 200mg ED.
Well, yes, if you are not clearing histamine, then any added mild IgE reaction would be multiplied.
Have you tried Molybdenum and Manganese? TMG?
HMNT uses SAM to clear histamines on a cellular level, helping deplete your SAM.

http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/85/5/1185.full

@UM MAN - I've never noticed cinnamon making me worse, but I feel bad all the time... It could be some incremental irritation.

I have a very severe reaction to ANY particulate matter - pollution, dust/pollen, and I believe mold spores.. I think my doctor is right when she says particles bother me, so it's not an allergic reaction, per se.. Taking anti-histamines has never helped me. Quercetin and other "allergy" meds help, but that's because (I think) they're reducing the inflammation. The brain fog from particles kills me; I have brain fog anyway, but any time I'm around particles (which is often, for one reason or another) my brain fog gets way worse. If benadryl doesn't help, does that mean my problem isn't a histamine problem?

Molybdenum & Manganese both help. I'm taking Molybdenum every day, and Manganese every other day.

thanks
 

ebethc

Senior Member
Messages
1,901
Does cinnamon make you worse????
How much SAM-e did you take? I only need 200mg ED.
Well, yes, if you are not clearing histamine, then any added mild IgE reaction would be multiplied.
Have you tried Molybdenum and Manganese? TMG?
HMNT uses SAM to clear histamines on a cellular level, helping deplete your SAM.

http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/85/5/1185.full

@UM MAN - I'm taking lecithin instead of TMG... Aren't you supposed to take sunflower lecithin if you're sensitive to methyls? I'm not sure if I'm sensitive to methyls, so I just take lecithin for my BHMT... BOTH make me feel better!
 

Critterina

Senior Member
Messages
1,238
Location
Arizona, USA
If benedryl doesn't work, that means it's not an H1 histamine problem, but there are H2, H3, and H4 histamines that I know of, and there may be more.
 

ebethc

Senior Member
Messages
1,901
@UM MAN - I am on T4 & T3, both compounded.. My symptoms are not related. I've been really sick w some bug off & on the past week.. I feel bad again the past day... I get sick ALL the time.. I"m hoping that the protocol I'm on will enable my body to make more glutathione so I don't get sick all the time..
What's DAOSIN? thanks.
 

UM MAN

Senior Member
Messages
106
Location
Florida
Have you considered exposure to MOLD???? Tax Exempt organizations, usually have AC that is only turned on for a few hours a day, and not maintained well. Look for dirty AC grates.
 

ebethc

Senior Member
Messages
1,901
I tested negative to mold allergy - which doesn't completely rule out an allergy, but it does indicate something. My doctor said that I have a sensitivity to particles - could be pollution, dust, mold spores... anything that's a particle.

No AC where I live... could be some mold in the radiators, but these are life long problems so unlikely to be cause by my current living situation... I think my allergist is on to something when she says particles bother me... I'm a mess on high pollution days - even when the air quality is on the high side of "GREEN"

thanks
 

UM MAN

Senior Member
Messages
106
Location
Florida
If benadryl doesn't help, does that mean my problem isn't a histamine problem?

For me, Benadryl not helping means my DAO level is insufficient to deactivate normal everyday histamine releases in my body. I believe I have LOW DAO levels! On an IgE scale of 0 - 184 being normal, I score a paltry 6, yet, I have all kinds of histamine reactions. The significance of the cinnamon test, is, most MCAD sufferers' mast cells will degranulate because of cinnamon.

Were you blood tested or skin tested for allergies?