Lecithin and vitamin c reactions

[zzz0r]

I am looking for people that have noticed an intolerance to lecithin and maybe generalized with soy also have vitamin c reaction. The reaction are very similar for myself that is why I group these supplements together.

Symptoms caused are insomnia, irritability, overstimulation, anxiety. Lecithin is able to produce that with just 100mg while with vitamin C (ascorbic acid form) it happens when I increase dosage up to 3g.

I am looking for people that have similar reaction to these supplements and have found out what is going on. Comments are also welcome.


PS: I am posting in this section of the forum as it is most active and there are people that use this supplements as cofactors for methylation cycle supports, also for increased absorption.

 

[adreno]

Lecithin stimulates acetylcholine, and vitamin C stimulates norepinephrine. This is probably the reason.

 

[zzz0r]

I understand the effect of norepinephrine, but why would acetylcholine cause stimulation?

 

[adreno]

I understand the effect of norepinephrine, but why would acetylcholine cause stimulation?

What do you mean why? The world is what it is.

 

[zzz0r]

I mean that I understand that excessive norepinephrine could cause stimulation but is it known that acetylcholine is causing stimulation and anxiety as well?

 

[adreno]

Yes, acetylcholine is both inhibitory and excitatory. Perhaps anxiety isn't a common reaction, but insomnia, irritability and muscle tension is.

 

[Valentijn]

Soy (even soy lecithin) gives me body wide swelling. I can't tolerate more than a small amount of vitamin C, as it makes my bowels very angry with me

I've also got issues with low norepinephrine, and taking an NRI or Yohimbe helps quite a bit with the related OI problems.

 

[zzz0r]

Yea other people have bowel issues as well with vitamin c but it does not seem to bother my bowel even in high dosages

 

[aaron_c]

Hi @zzz0r

Have you tried limiting methyl groups?

Lecithin is high in choline, some of which becomes trimethylglycine (betaine) and through the BHMT enzyme ends up recycling more homocysteine into methionine, which in turn becomes SAMe (S-adenosyl-methionine). SAMe donates a methyl group to lots of things, but among them are some neurotransmitters. So far I have read adrenaline, serotonin, dopamine, and melatonin.

In short, lecithin provides methyl groups. Some people like Yasko and Dr. James Roberts feel that some people are more sensitive to methyl groups than others. Here is a link to Dr. Roberts page on genetics--look at the part on COMT and VDR taq status in particular. He believes these are the two that govern methyl sensitivity.

As an aside, I used to be methyl sensitive until I began limiting my riboflavin-5-phosphate (active vitamin B2) intake to about 35-50 mg per day. I believe this is the norm in Freddd's protocol--this was why I limited it--and Freddd does not believe in methyl sensitivity; he recommends people take very high doses of methyl B12, and if not immediately then over time people can take huge amounts of methyl donors. My guess is that limiting B2 works because B2 is involved in the creation of catecholamines (think adrenaline, noradrenaline, and dopamine). All I could find at the time was this book, though, saying that high B2 causes higher catecholamine levels (top of page 141).

I'm not sure any of what I have written will cover the vitamin C issue, though. That is a new one to me, although if it increases noradrenaline, I imagine the effect would be similar to methyl groups to a methyl sensitive individual.

Please let us all know if you figure something out.

Best of luck,

Aaron C

 

[BadBadBear]

I am so glad I found this thread. My doc has been treating me with Cytomel (T3), and I have been having high floating heart rate lately. I could not correlate it to the T3 dosing, and it was driving me *crazy*. Finally I cut out vitamin C, which I had recently increased, and the problem went away within 24 hours.

I AM SO GLAD I found this thread and then went on to read how vitamin C increases norepinephrine production, and norepinephrine directly raises heart rate! Vitamin C is just too stimulating for me. Never in a million years would have guessed it!

And now I also can guess why my body has been 'calling' for potassium. My overworked heart needs it to keep up.