Ketamine Update

[Gingergrrl]

@zzz thank you for all the additional info and I am going to ask my CFS Dr his opinion of the Zantac vs Tagamet. I saw Zantac when I was at CVS today but there were multiple different versions so I was not sure which one to get!

Thank you for the dosing info and if they are the identical mechanism without the side effects, I will definitely go for the Zantac. I will not be trying it quite yet so I have time to make the exchange.

I think you said you had just started with this protocol and was wondering what you were noticing? Please forgive me if I already asked you this, but are you taking it for EBV?

 

[zzz]

I saw Zantac when I was at CVS today but there were multiple different versions so I was not sure which one to get!

You would want the regular Zantac 150 ("Maximum Strength"). There's a mint-flavored version of the Zantac 150, which seems pretty silly since you just swallow these tablets - you don't chew them. The regular version has no taste.

CVS has its generic brand, which is made in India; it may or may not be functionally equivalent. I get the Kirkman brand from Amazon.com; it's distributed by Costco, and is much cheaper than Zantac. Like other Kirkman items, this is highly rated on Amazon (i.e., it works for people), so I feel comfortable buying it. It's even cheaper if you get it directly from the Costco store.

I think you said you had just started with this protocol and was wondering what you were noticing? Please forgive me if I already asked you this, but are you taking it for EBV?

I was actually taking it for occasional acid reflux, which has since subsided. To my knowledge, I don't have an active case of EBV.

 

[Little Bluestem]

I was actually taking it for occasional acid reflux, which has since subsided. To my knowledge, I don't have an active case of EBV.

Did you notice any change in your ME/CFS symptoms while you were taking it?

 

[zzz]

Did you notice any change in your ME/CFS symptoms while you were taking it?

No, unfortunately, I didn't. But I'm wondering if people with active EBV or other herpes infections might find a difference. It will be interesting to see.

 

[Izola]

please go through it and not out. I find there is another side to come out on. That Bitch pain, she tries to rule me to. I'm sending my good thoughts for you for the spirits to soothe you. I think they need to be time trippers.

 

[Gingergrrl]

You would want the regular Zantac 150 ("Maximum Strength"). There's a mint-flavored version of the Zantac 150, which seems pretty silly since you just swallow these tablets - you don't chew them. The regular version has no taste.

Thank you @zzz and this is really helpful info. I've taken Zantac in the past for stomach issues (pre-CFS) and had no side effects at that time.

No, unfortunately, I didn't. But I'm wondering if people with active EBV or other herpes infections might find a difference. It will be interesting to see.

@zzz Just curious what led you to try this protocol without having active EBV and herpes viruses or were you taking it strictly for stomach issues? I will definitely post once I end up trying it (but I am doing other treatments for EBV so it would be hard to distinguish which benefit is coming from which product?) Although, I will take any help that I can get and hoping it is all cumulative!

 

[zzz]

Just curious what led you to try this protocol without having active EBV and herpes viruses or were you taking it strictly for stomach issues?

Originally, I was taking it only for acid reflux; I took it for the first time just a couple of weeks ago. While I was taking it, I just happened upon Dr. Goldstein's use of it for EBV and CFS. I thought, "Well, that's convenient!", and I kept on taking it for a few more days. But it had no effect on my CFS.

Zantac and Tagamet were the first drugs that Dr. Goldstein tried for CFS. This was back in the mid-1980s, when CFS was still known as "chronic Epstein-Barr syndrome" and was widely believed to be a mononucleosis-like disease that was caused by EBV. Since Zantac and Tagamet worked so well for Dr. Goldstein against mononucleosis, he thought that they should work well against CFS, too.

These drugs did work against CFS, but for a much smaller proportion of people than they did for mono. Yet in the intervening years, it's become clear that some people have herpes infections involved with their ME/CFS more than other people, and EBV in particular does have some nasty associations with ME/CFS (as you would know better than I). So if there were a subset of people with ME/CFS who responded to these drugs, it would make sense that it would be those people with herpes issues. Your experience here will be very informative indeed, as will @Misfit Toy's.

I will definitely post once I end up trying it (but I am doing other treatments for EBV so it would be hard to distinguish what benefit is coming from which product.)

If Dr. Goldstein is right, then if this works, it should eliminate your EBV symptoms in a day or two. As I gather they've been ongoing for a while, an effect like that should be hard to miss. Good luck!

 

[Misfit Toy]

@zzz I just have to get to trying it. I've been running around getting more tests, or having more. And, sleeping or working.

But, I am going to make a point to swallow a Zantac. I have so many things I need to do, but if I have a better day, I just eat a cupcake!

 

[Gingergrrl]

If Dr. Goldstein is right, then if this works, it should eliminate your EBV symptoms in a day or two. As I gather they've been ongoing for a while, an effect like that should be hard to miss. Good luck!

@zzz That would be incredible if it were that simple and I am wondering if Dr. Goldstein saw this effect if someone started Tagamet/Zantac within the first few days of active mono (vs. longer term EBV re-activations and full-blown CFS.)

In any case, I have no false hopes of a miracle cure, but feel the Zantac cannot hurt, and if there is even the slightest improvement to be added to my other treatments, I will be thrilled. Thanks again for the great info which was totally new for me!

 

[Gingergrrl]

@zzz and @Misfit Toy I exchanged the Tagamet for Zantac today and plan to start it soon. I was curious, @zzz, from what you read by Dr. Goldstein, did he recommend taking it in the morning, evening, or did it not matter?

 

[zzz]

@zzz and @Misfit Toy I exchanged the Tagamet for Zantac today and plan to start it soon. I was curious, @zzz, from what you read by Dr. Goldstein, did he recommend taking it in the morning, evening, or did it not matter?

For most medications, including Zantac, Dr. Goldstein recommended the standard dosing protocol for that medication. In the case of Zantac and CFS, he used two pills per day, separated by twelve hours. The exact time doesn't matter, nor does it matter if you take them with or without food for this purpose. It's good to take them at approximately the same time every day, however, so as to maintain the twelve-hour spacing (which doesn't have to be exact).

 

[Gingergrrl]

@zzz Thank you and that is really helpful!

 

[DeGenesis]

I take wayyyy more Zantac than I should (like 600 mg a day). Now I just need to add an H1-antagonist and I have a mast cell and ant-herpes stack.

 

[Izola]

@zzz I just have to get to trying it. I've been running around getting more tests, or having more. And, sleeping or working.

But, I am going to make a point to swallow a Zantac. I have so many things I need to do, but if I have a better day, I just eat a cupcake!

Misfit Toy. Thank you for your "like." above somewhere. Maybe there is a cupcake test, too! Iz

 

[Misfit Toy]

@Izola -I believe I ate 3 cupcakes. All from Trader Joe's and all gluten free...they were very good....!!!

 

[Ema]

No, unfortunately, I didn't. But I'm wondering if people with active EBV or other herpes infections might find a difference. It will be interesting to see.

I tried Tagamet for about 9 months pre Valtrex etc. I think my dose was 400 mg three times a day.

Unfortunately it didn't help lower my EBV titers and didn't change the way I felt.

I also worried a little about lowered stomach acid for such a long time.

 

[Misfit Toy]

@minkeygirl ---it's taking me to my post...not a thread by you.