Keep Waking Up and Fragmented Sleep

[David_101]

Been having severe sleep issues for over 2 months.

I have this problem where I would wake up every 4 hours no matter what time I slept. If I proceeded to fall asleep my sleep would continue to be fragmented where I'd wake up every hour.

Doctor thinks it may have been me taking myself off of Klonopin 1.5 mg inappropriately (I only took it for 3 weeks). This was almost 3 months ago.

Personally don't know if autonomic or not. I do know my sleep has gotten worse as it has gotten more fragmented.

In addition, not always but I'd sometimes feel like my heart races when I wake. Sometimes with heavy breathing.

Can somebody please let me know what I can do to fix my sleep cycle or what may have caused this?

It just makes my other symptoms harder to deal with.

 

[jesse's mom]

I have this same thing off and on. I had a sleep study, to rule out sleep apnea. It turns out I do not have that. I do have something he said was "remarkable" that is that my brain was not turning off while I was asleep. I was sleeping very lightly.
There are things I have done to help with this in addition to a medication called Trazodone.
I sleep in a pitch dark room.
I wear either a sleep mask, or tie a soft scarf over my eyes.
I rest for a little while with no screens on before sleep.
I keep the room cool.
I use a box fan to cool the room and create white noise.
When I wake up in the night, and I always do.
I make sure to put the mask back on.
I have ordered a weighted blanket and excitedly await its arrival.

Best of luck, I know this is a miserable symptom that many of us share.

 

[Learner1]

@David_101 There are many factors that can affect you biochemisrltry which impact sleep.

One thing to check into might be your 24 hour cortisol levels. You might be making cortisol ehen you are supposed to be sleeping ehich would make it difficult to stay asleep. Seriphos can help to reregulate your cortisol.

Then there are supplements that calm your system, like magnesium, theanine and GABA.

I tried all of the above with some success but kept waking multiple times a night and had trouble going back to sleep. Citrulline helped some, but ornithine aspartate solved the problem. Both work on the idea cycle to help rid the body of excess ammonia.

Then, it could be norepinephrine production affecting your nervous system, as in hyperadrenergic POTS. A dysautonomia specialist might be helpful. And tracking your heart rate all night long would be useful in figuring this out.

I hope you find some relief soon...

 

[AnnaDove]

@David_101, I would still bet the Klonopin started the problem. Recently, @Mary shared infor from a doctor about a magnesium def causing light sleeping and Klonopin could have caused that. I am presently using sublingual melatonin and amino acids for sleep - also am taking all my mag in the evening and at bedtime. My sleep is finally coming together.

 

[Wishful]

In the past few years, I generally wake up every few hours too. If I didn't consume anything that would induce insomnia (caffeine, or easily digested carbs), I can usually fall asleep again, and then wake up again. I don't know if it's ME or just getting older. It's annoying, but not enough to resort to treatments that might be habit-forming or have other side-effects.

No heart-racing or anything like that. I just stop being asleep.

 

[Seven7]

Cfs has stage 4 issues. I have been on and off trazadone ( stage 4 inducer) for a while. Best thing that ever happen to me so I can function better.

 

[mattie]

but ornithine aspartate solved the problem

Very interesting. What brand did you use?
iHerb has only L Ornithine HCL which is supposed to be less effective.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/9148009/

 

[Learner1]

I take a teaspoon of this 20 minutes before bed every night, straight out of the bottle. The taste is pretty neutral.

https://www.allergyresearchgroup.com/l-ornithine-l-aspartate-100-grams-3.5-oz.

 

[mattie]

Thanks @Learner1 . That's the only supplier I found too.
But their website says:

Please Note: Purchasing on this site is available only to healthcare professionals who utilize our products for nutritional support, and their authorized patients.

Also found it on amazon.com but they don't ship to europe...

 

[Learner1]

There are several sites that sell it.

 

[David_101]

I have this same thing off and on. I had a sleep study, to rule out sleep apnea. It turns out I do not have that. I do have something he said was "remarkable" that is that my brain was not turning off while I was asleep. I was sleeping very lightly.
There are things I have done to help with this in addition to a medication called Trazodone.
I sleep in a pitch dark room.
I wear either a sleep mask, or tie a soft scarf over my eyes.
I rest for a little while with no screens on before sleep.
I keep the room cool.
I use a box fan to cool the room and create white noise.
When I wake up in the night, and I always do.
I make sure to put the mask back on.
I have ordered a weighted blanket and excitedly await its arrival.

Best of luck, I know this is a miserable symptom that many of us share.

@jessie's mom I've made a habit of sleeping with the lights on and tv on for years. Going to try sleeping with the lights off. Although my body deregulation problem kicks in and I've been using a heater (I'm cold intolerant) as white noise lately.

No luck on Trazadone as it makes my nose congested. Been using Nortriptyline for sleep and melatonin. While it makes me drowsy, the fragmented sleep remains an issue.

 

[David_101]

@David_101 There are many factors that can affect you biochemisrltry which impact sleep.

One thing to check into might be your 24 hour cortisol levels. You might be making cortisol ehen you are supposed to be sleeping ehich would make it difficult to stay asleep. Seriphos can help to reregulate your cortisol.

Then there are supplements that calm your system, like magnesium, theanine and GABA.

I tried all of the above with some success but kept waking multiple times a night and had trouble going back to sleep. Citrulline helped some, but ornithine aspartate solved the problem. Both work on the idea cycle to help rid the body of excess ammonia.

Then, it could be norepinephrine production affecting your nervous system, as in hyperadrenergic POTS. A dysautonomia specialist might be helpful. And tracking your heart rate all night long would be useful in figuring this out.

I hope you find some relief soon...

@Learner1 I'd like to get the cortisol level checked but not sure whom to ask for it. If Sephiros works then I'm willing to try. My circadian rhythm just seems off.

Been having issues with doctors willing to help me run tests that are non-standard and lots of resistance on commercial tests.

I am seeing an autonomic doctor now on am ongoing diagnosis. He's suppose to well known but very stubborn...would not listen to my other symptoms and boxes them in with anxiety even though it's a misdiagnosis on my charts but another doctor. Have done ttt and Mayo's parenosplastic panel (I think) which all came back negative.

However, I do have positive SFN found via biopsy that showed my nerve damage. What caused this may still be autoimmune as my ANA is positive nucleolar and homogeneous.

 

[David_101]

@AnnaDove I mean it does make sense that klonopin started this since I didn't have any issues prior. Just been awhile since I've been on that poison.

@Wishful if it came on suddenly then it may very well be part if the symptoms. I'd imagine getting you'll see it gradually. In my case it was sudden onset.

@inester7 no luck on trazadone I'm afraid.

Had 3 hours of sleep last night even with melatonin and nortryptoline.

 

[Learner1]

I'd like to get the cortisol level checked but not sure whom to ask for it. If Sephiros works then I'm willing to try. My circadian rhythm just seems off.

Been having issues with doctors willing to help me run tests that are non-standard and lots of resistance on commercial tests.

Though I have seen and gotten some help from conventional, allopathic doctors, I have gotten a lot more help from doctors who practice functional medicine, who can be MDs, DOs, NDs, ARNPs or DCs who have gone through the appropriate training. They look at the body as a system of interrelated systems and do some tests which are quite helpful but that aren't on most conventional doctors' radar screens.

I am seeing an autonomic doctor now on am ongoing diagnosis. He's suppose to well known but very stubborn...would not listen to my other symptoms and boxes them in with anxiety even though it's a misdiagnosis on my charts but another doctor. Have done ttt and Mayo's parenosplastic panel (I think) which all came back

If you are experiencing symptoms, they are valid, and there's a reason for them. Whoever you're seeing might not be able to figure it out, but doesnt mean you don't have a problem that's solvable. I've learned to get whatever value I can from each doctor, then find others who can do the rest of what I need.

do have positive SFN found via biopsy that showed my nerve damage. What caused this may still be autoimmune as my ANA is positive nucleolar and homogeneous.

How are your mitochondria? You might look into a MitoSwab mitochondrial function test, in addition to autoimmune antibodies.

it does make sense that klonopin started this since I didn't have any issues

Klonopin is known to deplete vitamins B6, B12, D, K, folic acid, calcium and magnesium. Perhaps one or more deficiencies could be affecting you.

 

[Wolfcub]

Thanks @Learner1 . That's the only supplier I found too.
But their website says:


Also found it on amazon.com but they don't ship to europe...

Is this any help to you @mattie ?
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Allergy-Research-Group-L-Ornithine-L-Aspartate-100/dp/B003FGROSW

 

[Wolfcub]

I have weird sleep patterns too. For nights on end I sleep perfectly...then sometimes randomly I can't get to sleep at all....then there are weird awakenings for no reason and only 3 hours' sleep....then there are times when I am so sleepy at 8pm, can't lie down because I'm still full of dinner, and by the time it's bedtime I am okay and better and awake.
I don't take anything for it though. I get up and have a hot drink and read or something. Sometimes I've even had a coffee....and got straight to sleep when I've gone back to bed. Yep -even full of caffeine.
Then there are times I've done all the "wrong" things and slept like a baby. And times when I've done all the "right" things and had a rotten night.

I always had a touch of DSPS (delayed sleep phase) ongoing most of my life. It never bothered me too badly except how to fit in with early morning stuff at times.

I also went through a thing once of dratted waking up every 4 hours. I figured that if I got two of those it made a night's sleep. A gap in between just meant I got up later.

 

[mattie]

Is this any help to you @mattie ?
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Allergy-Research-Group-L-Ornithine-L-Aspartate-100/dp/B003FGROSW

thanks. No they don’t ship to the Netherlands.
But amazon.de sells it too and I will pick it up in Germany next time we’re there.

 

[victor_dan]

@Davic_101
I found on my own research and testing that, sleeping disorder and problems are usually related to Glycemic Fluctuations.
What does this mean?
The fluctuation of sugar levels in the blood and tissues influences the way we sleep. At low levels, glycemia is making our body wanting more sugar from outside. This thing causes sleep deprivation and other symptoms.
For example, you eat a chocolate before going to sleep. It takes 30-60 minutes for the body to have high sugar levels in the blood. This means that your body is prepared for sleep.
If sugar levels are constantly low and fluctuate often, your body will have sleeping problems all the time.
What to do?
Eat less sugar, bread, potatoes, starch, alcohol, fries, anything that has sugar, flour, corn and potatoes.
It takes time for the body to get in a normal state. Exercise a bit so your whole body gets oxygen and keeps control of the glucose levels in the tissues and blood.

I hope this helps, in a way or another.

 

[jesse's mom]

Insomnia is and has been one of my most hated and feared symptom of ME/CFS. I have bronchitis right now in the last stages, maybe my oxygen is not at a high enough level at night. It is baffling and miserable. At times I can do many of the "wrong" things and sleep for about 5 hours deeply. Every time I think I "get it" I find I do not. My heart goes out to every insomnia!

 

[Wishful]

I'll have to experiment more with carbs and fats at various times of day. Last night I had a stick of pepperoni (high fat) in the evening, and I only woke up twice in the night, rather than six or more times. I had to give up sugars and quickly-digested starches because they give me insomnia (wake at 2AM or whenever and can't fall back asleep). I seem to be most sensitive to those quick-carbs during the daytime; less so in early morning or evening.

I do get plenty of exercise, which doesn't seem to prevent sleep problems. A long walk too close to bedtime seems to trigger insomnia.