Ivermectin.

bensmith

Senior Member
Messages
1,547
@junkcrap50 yes, i worry that all these thing i am taking are making me worse maybe, especially lately. The bpc-157 seems to have messed with me a bit in a bad way i think. But sadly i am so severe, and in constant horrific agony, i don’t feel i have mucb choice. It just isn’t sustainable to live in crisis all the time. I have to hope something works enough. Sorry to hear that, i guess that stuff comes later.

yes i know its a very risky drug. I know this is much safer. I am just always afraid of taking drugs, especially if they might make you worse, and many seem capable of doing so.

@nerd hm. This is just what she gave me prescription for, i wonder if i should ask her to raise it? We started lower to check to see if i could tolerate it. But we aren’t even taking it for parasite i dont think. And for half like its 18 hours so 36 to clear out? I guess it will be always building.
 
Last edited:

nerd

Senior Member
Messages
863
This is just what she gave me prescription for, i wonder if i should ask her to raise it? We started lower to check to see if i could tolerate it. But we aren’t even taking it for parasite i dont think. And for half like its 18 hours so 36 to clear out? I guess it will be always building.

The half-life in tissues is longer than in plasma. Based on animal studies, it should be in the 6-10 days range. The FLCCC changed their own initial recommendation from a 7-day interval to 14 days. After the half-time, you still have half remaining, that's why. There is no knowledge about the minimal effective dose with COVID-19, though there is one ongoing/pending trial trying to clarify this question. The FLCCC recommends 0.2mg/kg (12mg for a 60kg person) because this is the FDA-approved effective dosage against parasites. This makes off-label prescriptions per NIH guidelines possible without having to deviate from the existing safety profile. If only given as antiinflammatory, I understand why your doctor would be ok with a lower dosage at first. It's her decision, after all, because she takes partial responsibility when prescribing off-label.
 

bensmith

Senior Member
Messages
1,547
It seems to help but i dont know if this is a good med for me. I am having way more internal tremors. I have them usually, but this seems worse. Its in my head area too which is hard. I also seem to of had trouble sleeping and just felt off mentally. I hope everything is ok. I am sad if this is another med that seems to work that i cant take.

maybe its just clearing out the virus in my brain, but my gut says this is not normal. I feel scared. I think it might br nuero toxic for me. My brain doesn’t feel right. Why does everything i do be bad.
 

nerd

Senior Member
Messages
863
It seems to help but i dont know if this is a good med for me. I am having way more internal tremors. I have them usually, but this seems worse. Its in my head area too which is hard. I also seem to of had trouble sleeping and just felt off mentally. I hope everything is ok. I am sad if this is another med that seems to work that i cant take.

maybe its just clearing out the virus in my brain, but my gut says this is not normal. I feel scared. I think it might br nuero toxic for me. My brain doesn’t feel right. Why does everything i do be bad.

I'm sorry to read that. Tremors are a side effect of Ivermectin that affects ca. 1% of patients who use it as an antiparasitic (10.4269/ajtmh.17-0042). I have tremors as manifestation of CFS/ME neuropathic symptoms. I know how scary it feels sometimes. Anecdotal reports indicate that side effects can happen during the first one or two days after taking IVM for COVID-19. It's possible that it is just an adaptation to the drug, but it is also possible that it is a neurological adverse effect, or that it is a nocebo effect. An adaptation phase wouldn't be untypical because IVM is an immune modulator, which, according to protein interaction studies, also interacts with the Angiotensin system (10.3389/fmicb.2020.592908). It's best if you talk with your doctor about how to proceed.
 

bensmith

Senior Member
Messages
1,547
@nerd yes, i have all the thoughts thank you for reaching out. I might reach out to my docotr but we have a peculiar relationship. I dont feel i can. But even if i did i wonder how she could parse the issue. Maybe i will. I would like to.
 

lenora

Senior Member
Messages
4,390
Points of Interest: @bensmith. Would you say that your round of COVID was mild/moderate or more serious?

Interesting article in this month's THE ATLANTIC, 'Unlocking the Mystery of Long COVID, p. 29 on. There were some very good points, but it also left me wondering if we would be lost in the shuffle once again.

I understand there is a Thread about Autoimmune Encephalitis, but I can't seem to find it. Any help would be great. As you know, I was befallen with that last year (I get all confused about things at times...after have AE). Very few answers and lots of questions concerning it.

Getting older with this illness (74 yrs.) is not easy. Someone was describing their symptoms of their 2nd Moderna Vaccine. Interesting, as I feel that way all of the time, but of course didn't say that to the person. However, it's true...it's often hard to tell if one has additional problems, or just a bad day, week, month, etc. Who would know? Am definitely having trouble with my heart since the stent insertions. True, I'd had a mild heart attack, but I feel worse instead of better. Anyone with experience in this regard? I'm exercising as much as I can in addition to walking about 15 min./day (broken up). Wishing you well. Yours, Lenora.
 

nerd

Senior Member
Messages
863
I've done some research on Ivermectin's potential neurotoxicity and how the mild forms could be prevented and alleviated. I also found a new potential reason for it and why it doesn't have to be genetically inherited but due to the nutritional status. I'll write a new post on this subject soon today.

Am definitely having trouble with my heart since the stent insertions. True, I'd had a mild heart attack, but I feel worse instead of better. Anyone with experience in this regard? I'm exercising as much as I can in addition to walking about 15 min./day (broken up). Wishing you well. Yours, Lenora.

I would suggest writing a new post about stents because it will be easier for people to find it and not only address people who read through this Ivermectin post.
 

bensmith

Senior Member
Messages
1,547
@lenora yes i hear you. I wonder about ae as well. I finally saw a neuro today, she has dignosed others with ae so i am thankful for her care. So far she has not been alarmed. I forgot to mention my sleep attacks though lol. We are an off lot to forget somethint severe because it is one issue of many.

@nerd thanks i look forward to it! I feel a bit better after the night and morning are over. And i think it is helping, certainly think so. It could be fake energy though i feel a bit hard to stay still. So its a tricky, i hope your post can give me some ideas : )
 

nerd

Senior Member
Messages
863
Messages
38
There's very compelling anecdotal evidence from medical community about ivermectin, as in it preventing infection. I'm hoping it will be confirmed and classified as an alternative treatment to covid vaccines. I don't want to take those experimental vaccines just yet, maybe 10 to 20 years once we have enough data?
 

nerd

Senior Member
Messages
863
There's very compelling anecdotal evidence from medical community about ivermectin, as in it preventing infection. I'm hoping it will be confirmed and classified as an alternative treatment to covid vaccines. I don't want to take those experimental vaccines just yet, maybe 10 to 20 years once we have enough data?

I have the same hope. It's far beyond anecdotal though. The NIH just doesn't recommend it yet because they are worried that there might be bias in all these smaller (but significant) studies so that the meta-reviews are also altered. In my opinion, this doesn't matter. Even if Ivermectin is 20% less effective (which would be a vast bias), it's still more than we can see for Remdesivir and or other non-repurposed drugs. So the NIH claims that they are waiting for a large multi-centered RCT. This is understandable in general, but I think you have to show some foresight in critical times. Why not give more responsibility to the people and let them decide by giving them transparent information?

Nevertheless, I can't understand why certain institutions completely block any IVM-related science and cherry-pick anecdotal reports of animal drug abuse. Most journals have repeatedly blocked meta-reviews on IVM before and after their approving peer review. They just don't want to publish it. Large news agencies also report about anecdotal reports against "this antiparasitic" like it's the real deal but don't mention the science that backs it in a single word. I've never observed anything like this before.
 

bensmith

Senior Member
Messages
1,547
@nerd thanks. So thiamine and nac? And avoid b6? It is a strong drug. Very active feeling in my brain and spine, but this is where my covid was and others have it too. Certainly seeing improvement from one 3mg dose. Sides are minor in day. Headache. Become moderate to severe at night. Severe first nignt moderate scond. Continue unitil waking, essentially when the sleep juice inside my brain becomes active, it seems.

side effects are altered state of conciousness. Blurry and not centered. Maybe this is similar to alcohol intoxication. But odd it only happens when i begin to lay down for sleep and into the morning. Also ping pong feeling around head maybe. But i feel this often with ivm. Also a sense if something wrong. And tremors. Moderate. In my head. Have tremors often but not up there, in lower body with pem. So not usual.

i do have more issues day 3 then 1 and 2 it seems though. Didnt have much isuse first couole days, but today maybe headache or
Concussion feeling? It is a headache but not like i have experienced.

The benefits are continued 48 hours later, from bed bound and brink of death level ideation, constant fight, to just slugging around the house and not incl crisis. Enormous improvement,

I am attempting to not dose until i see the sides wear off and see
Their depth, the postiives wearing off slightly faster i think.

it also feels its working on the infection. But i think i have much in my brain. The left side of my brain ached with covid. Hasnt in 8 months. Again with ivm. Common report. Old comes back.

i also felt a bit wired yesterday, and i feel good sometimes. I wonder if this gaba activation.

also, ugh 7 to 14 days is a long time. But i feel i need to see how the side effects will be before adding more. I feel i can feel it still banging around in my body, but i wish i could take more. Seems to be slightly declining in effectiveness day 3. Day 1 and two were better, although day 3 is still helping. I think in anotjer couple days though i’ll want to take more. Ugh stress.
 
Last edited:

nerd

Senior Member
Messages
863
So thiamine and nac? And avoid b6?

According to my hypothesis, B6 is fine unless you begin taking it when you begin experiencing side effects. If you already take B6, there is no need to change it. You might consider lowering your B6 dose during the first one or two days of Ivermectin.

For thiamine, it's similar. It depends if you are thiamine deficient or not. Unless you are checked, I wouldn't take high doses of it. If you begin taking thiamine during the first days of Ivermectin, and you are in a thiamin-deficient state, your GABAa receptors might get overstimulated because they aren't used to healthy levels of GABA yet - this will cause a sedative- or hangover-like effect. The body needs time to adapt. During the first days of Ivermectin, it might not be the right time to experiment with something additional.

And there is the possibility that Ginko or Kudzu help alleviate some of the side effects. Some CFS/ME patients take Ginko extracts regularly. From my experience, the effects of Ginko aren't very strong. It's no medication after all.

Since you're having troubles when sleeping. Do you take Melatonin? Melatonin is part of the MATH+ protocol because COVID-19 is known to "weaken" sleep to suppress the immune system at night. This is why melatonin helps as prophylaxis from COVID-19. I also have this problem with CFS/ME. That sleep would make me weaker instead of rested. Melatonin at least helped me a little. But I have no idea how it is for long-haulers. I've made the experience that it's always helpful to slowly increase or decrease dosages if I want to change something.

Do you also take Vitamin D? This is also part of the MATH+ protocol because it helps the adaptive immune system and shows significant improvements in the prevention and treatment of COVID-19 (meta review).
 

bensmith

Senior Member
Messages
1,547
@nerd ok ill leave out b6 i was just about to start, i recently raised my thiamine from 100 to 500. Yes i take vit d. And i slept ok last night, and all during covid, sorry if unclear. Just that first night sides were crazy! I slept 12 hours last night which is unsual.
I felt great day time day 1 and 2, esp day 2. And day 3 feeling a bit less good and maybe hungoverish! Although apparently headache is near universal. I also cant tolerate melatonin. Sorry if scrambled feel a bit off today.
 

bensmith

Senior Member
Messages
1,547
also starting to see word finding issues which is not in my usual symptom list. Getting more concerned i wont be able to use this med, seems to be giving me more issues day 3 than 2 which is odd. We will see. I am very scared i will not be able to use this med. i rrally need something to take me out of severe. Also have headache but just in the front, so sinus headache or brain ache maybe.

very weird drug though to be stillb be shifting i think near 55 hours later.
 
Last edited:

nerd

Senior Member
Messages
863
also starting to see word finding issues which is not in my usual symptom list. Getting more concerned i wont be able to use this med, seems to be giving me more issues day 3 than 2 which is odd. We will see. I am very scared i will not be able to use this med. i rrally need something to take me out of severe. Also have headache but just in the front, so sinus headache or brain ache maybe.

very weird drug though to be stillb be shifting i think near 55 hours later.

How are you feeling now? Any improvement?
 

bensmith

Senior Member
Messages
1,547
doses day 1 and 5. 3mg each. Day 1 heavy sides ut a bit better. Day 2 a bit better more. 3 wear off and feel flu. Day 4 best day in 7 moths. Day 5 back to bad. Dose 2. Feel a bit better. 6 a bit more better. Day 7, today, holding a bit. Very strange but its helping some, just praying it holdsz. I worry its a gaba interaction like you mention, or something like it. I dont feel normal, but better, like maybe a but high which i dont like i just want to fee not sick that would be more hopeful. It feels shaky. Thanks for asking!
 

nerd

Senior Member
Messages
863
doses day 1 and 5. 3mg each. Day 1 heavy sides ut a bit better. Day 2 a bit better more. 3 wear off and feel flu. Day 4 best day in 7 moths. Day 5 back to bad. Dose 2. Feel a bit better. 6 a bit more better. Day 7, today, holding a bit. Very strange but its helping some, just praying it holdsz. I worry its a gaba interaction like you mention, or something like it. I dont feel normal, but better, like maybe a but high which i dont like i just want to fee not sick that would be more hopeful. It feels shaky. Thanks for asking!

Thanks for letting us know. I'm glad to read you're doing a bit better now.

GABA interaction isn't necessarily bad. It's just worrisome in excessive cases. But then, it would feel like you're completely drunk or like you took a sleeping pill. It's not the interaction itself that is neurotoxic. It's the excessive activation (excitotoxicity) that could lead to severe adverse effects.
 

bensmith

Senior Member
Messages
1,547
Ok yes i certainly dont feel drunk. As long as it keeps working i would take it forever. Guess i just worry about tolerance. I guess there are some minor rumblings in the ivm covid facebook group about maybe going back to baseline after they stop their cycle. But like i said i dont shoot for back to normal just a livable life. As of rigjt now its pretty close to bare minimum which i am thanjful for, its all i want.