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Is there any consensus on which Vaccine is less of a risk for us?

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Guwop2

Senior Member
Messages
228
As someone in the U.K I will soon be offered the Astra Zeneca vaccine, since the Pfizer vaccine is not as readily available, or available for over 55's..or something like that (I'm 39). Astra Z as far as I understand works differently to the other vaccines, and I am wondering what people think about taking it vs the others..is there a preferred or less risky one for us considering many of us have auto-immune issues?
 
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nerd

nerd

Senior Member
Messages
863
There isn't even consensus about the general safety of these experimental vaccines. But adverse reports dominate for the mRNA ones. The J&J vaccine doesn't have any of such reports. It's less efficient though.
 
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Guwop2

Senior Member
Messages
228
deb74 said:
I had the AstraZenecia vaccine 18th March and have had no adverse reactions to it whatsoever. I didn't even have a sore arm. I am 47 and have got moderate ME.
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Thank you for this, it's somewhat reassuring. I have moderate M.E too, though I suppose it'll still feel like a gamble. A few years ago I had some shots before going abroad to Thailand and they had no adverse reaction, fingers crossed this also doesnt.
 
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Guwop2

Senior Member
Messages
228
nerd said:
There isn't even consensus about the general safety of these experimental vaccines. But adverse reports dominate for the mRNA ones. The J&J vaccine doesn't have any of such reports. It's less efficient though.
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Thanks for the info.
 
JES

JES

Senior Member
Messages
1,322
The use of AstraZeneca was halted in several European countries due to a potential connection with blood clots in the brain. It seems the blood clot risk was only greater than average in women under age 55 and that it could possibly be some kind of autoimmune reaction. Since ME/CFS potentially involves autoimmunity and inflammation, this is probably the vaccine I'd be least keen to take.
 
Hip

Hip

Senior Member
Messages
17,852
I have moderate ME/CFS, and had my first dose of the AstraZeneca vaccine a few weeks ago. I felt a bit hot and sweaty and fevery during night (but not so much during the day) for two days in a row, but that was the extent of the side effects I observed from the vaccine.

Having fever is a common side effect of all the coronavirus vaccines, according to this article.


I took some bromelain supplement while getting the vaccine, as this is a blood thinner, and so theoretically may protect against blood clots. Though the incidence of blood clots is extremely low with these vaccines: for the AstraZeneca vaccine, around a million to one.
 
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Blue Jay

Senior Member
Messages
736
My husband and I, both in our seventies, had the AstraZeneca on January 18th. We both had pain in our backs that night (nothing too dramatic) but I had lingering problems including even more dragging fatigue than usual. My side effects lasted about three weeks.

I'm the one with ME, my husband has terminal cancer. He tolerated the vaccine much better than I did.

I would still say take whichever vaccine you're offered in the UK. My brother had the Pfizer and had two days of nausea, by the way. The possibility of covid frightens me much more than vaccination side effects.

My ME is moderate.
 
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Guwop2

Senior Member
Messages
228
Hip said:
I have moderate ME/CFS, and had my first dose of the AstraZeneca vaccine a few weeks ago. I felt a bit hot and sweaty and fevery during night (but not so much during the day) for two days in a row, but that was the extent of the side effects I observed from the vaccine.

Having fever is a common side effect of all the coronavirus vaccines, according to this article.


I took some bromelain supplement while getting the vaccine, as this is a blood thinner, and so theoretically may protect against blood clots. Though the incidence of blood clots is extremely low with these vaccines: for the AstraZeneca vaccine, around a million to one.
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I'm not so concerned about the blood clots, it seems like a small percentage. My concern is the vaccine triggering some nasty auto-immune response.
 
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Guwop2

Senior Member
Messages
228
Blue Jay said:
My husband and I, both in our seventies, had the AstraZeneca on January 18th. We both had pain in our backs that night (nothing too dramatic) but I had lingering problems including even more dragging fatigue than usual. My side effects lasted about three weeks.

I'm the one with ME, my husband has terminal cancer. He tolerated the vaccine much better than I did.

I would still say take whichever vaccine you're offered in the UK. My brother had the Pfizer and had two days of nausea, by the way. The possibility of covid frightens me much more than vaccination side effects.

My ME is moderate.
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I will definitely be taking one, I was just checking in with the M.E community to see if there were any that I shouldn't definitely not take. It seems AZ has been tried by people here, so I'm likely to go with that. My mum was offered Pfizer, but I'm sure what's happening with that not, maybe stocks are low or something.
 
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Guwop2

Senior Member
Messages
228
JES said:
The use of AstraZeneca was halted in several European countries due to a potential connection with blood clots in the brain. It seems the blood clot risk was only greater than average in women under age 55 and that it could possibly be some kind of autoimmune reaction. Since ME/CFS potentially involves autoimmunity and inflammation, this is probably the vaccine I'd be least keen to take.
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I'm male and 39, maybe I'll be ok with AZ..but if I'm offered Phizer I'll take it, otherwise will likely have to go with AZ.
 
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Guwop2

Senior Member
Messages
228
nerd said:
There isn't even consensus about the general safety of these experimental vaccines. But adverse reports dominate for the mRNA ones. The J&J vaccine doesn't have any of such reports. It's less efficient though.
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It's looking like it'll be AZ for me, though if they offer Phizer I'm taking that one. Unlikely though
 
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hapl808

Senior Member
Messages
2,099
nerd said:
There isn't even consensus about the general safety of these experimental vaccines. But adverse reports dominate for the mRNA ones. The J&J vaccine doesn't have any of such reports. It's less efficient though.
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It's hard to compare efficacy of vaccines as they were tested at different times (thus on different variants and situations) and had slightly differing endpoints. While Pfizer and Moderna seem very high in efficacy, I don't think any direct comparisons exist yet, so it's hard to say that AZ or J&J are less effective. The Vaccine Efficacy (VE) is a specific calculation based on the endpoints chosen in the study.
 
Rufous McKinney

Rufous McKinney

Senior Member
Messages
13,354
Guwop2 said:
, and I am wondering what people think about taking it vs the others..is there a preferred or less risky one for us considering many of us have auto-immune issues?
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There is a Health Rising article by Cort Johnson...that includes comments about the basic types of vaccines from some of the doctors who deal with ME CFS.....so that would be important to review.
 
nerd

nerd

Senior Member
Messages
863
Booble said:
FYI, don't take a blood thinner before (or after) unless advised by an MD. The "clots" are actually from low platelets and bleeds.
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So it's actually the same pathology as with COVID-19 itself, i.e. immunologically-mediated thrombocytopenia.

By the way, AstraZenica's vaccine isn't the only one affected by this. The vaccines of Pfizer/Biontech and Moderna are also affected by this phenomenon (10.1002/ajh.26132). I'm not sure why AstraZenica is the only vaccine supplier being smashed for this. Meanwhile, severe anaphylaxis is far more common and critical for the Pfizer/Biontech and Moderna vaccines (both mRNA). But this isn't a reason to take them off-market.

Here is an interesting The Wire article on the matter.
 
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nerd

nerd

Senior Member
Messages
863
Booble said:
Because Europeans are more cautious about protecting each individual?
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If this was the case, they would have blocked mRNA vaccines right away until they clarified and eradicated the anaphylaxis causality. As I've shown, mRNA vaccines are affected by reactive autoimmune thrombocytopenia as well. I haven't seen such reports for the J&J vaccine yet. Either way, anaphylaxis cases exceed thrombocytopenia by ca. two orders of magnitude. Anaphylaxis can also be fatal, just like thrombocytopenia. So overall, Biontech/Pfizer's and Moderna's vaccines seem to be more controversial than AstraZenica's vaccine and J&J's vaccine. And yet, which vaccine is taken off-market? The cheapest one.
 
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